8/17/2026 at 8:10:27 PM
Pennywise, pound foolish decision.India is forced to subsidize farmers to the tune of $37B JUST for urea. Governments routinely offer free bus services to women, free cash handouts to women, free electricity to farmers (who then use the power to pump out groundwater and grow paddy in areas otherwise not suitable for it). The list goes on.
A $1B subsidy to eliminate friction on the payment front is peanuts.
by sieve
8/17/2026 at 8:23:07 PM
One of the reasons why the fee is being considered is under the pressure of other payment providers who are loosing to UPI in Indian market. Its been believed to be one of the negotiation points by the US-India trade dealsby sandeepkd
8/17/2026 at 8:35:17 PM
Same reason the US is going after Pix in Brazil. The world is decoupling from the US and the US is going to try to flex against it as it continues. Dollar dominance and the “exorbitant privilege” continue to erode (with the acceleration self inflicted). Also shrinks the TAM of these private US firms to only the US versus the world.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege
by toomuchtodo
8/17/2026 at 8:43:34 PM
Something like Pix is a great blueprint for the future imo.I don’t want international private companies controlling payments, better have my own elected government manage it.
by icantevenhold
8/17/2026 at 8:49:21 PM
It goes both ways: What if the ONLY payment method was the one approved by your "elected" government. A balance where they can all exist is the best, and most difficult decision.by catlikesshrimp
8/17/2026 at 9:05:29 PM
Currency is already managed by the elected government, and every democracy in the world traces electronic transactions. Some (like Italy) forbid cash payments in large sums altogether. So what's the boogieman here?by senorrib
8/17/2026 at 9:31:42 PM
The boogyman is just what you described, and every democracy in the world absolutely does not trace electronic transactions.Some have a more hands off approach, including size of transactions and flagged behaviour as indicators of when payment processors must report to the government.
The Goverment should absolutely have no idea who spends what, where. Warrants and court orders, check values should be required before anyone can know. The potential to suppress political opponents, to squelch legitimate protest, to interfere with elections, is too dangerous.
Simply because some countries, like the US after 9/11, decided to give up this aspect of a free people, does not make it right.
by b112
8/18/2026 at 4:12:38 AM
AFAIK, in India, payments more than Rs. 50k is tracked.In anycase, the governments have the capability, what remains is just the intend. And we see how intends could change at the whim of a leader.
by ivell
8/18/2026 at 3:02:54 PM
Governments have a monopoly on violence and thus technically the ability to do whatever they want. But it matters how theoretical that ability is and how publicly apparent misuse of the ability will be. Having all transactions flow through the government makes abuse both trivial and invisible to the public.by account42
8/18/2026 at 3:27:55 PM
If I have the choice of being tracked by my government or a private profit driven company I’ll choose the former any day.The company will sell all data to my government anyway if prompted.
Of course no tracking at all is the best option and I’m a huge proponent of cash - but it’s not always practical.
by icantevenhold
8/18/2026 at 1:27:57 AM
They do trace and log them, though.by sneak
8/18/2026 at 2:49:06 AM
They do not. They have to get a warrant to get such logs from a bank.by carlosjobim
8/18/2026 at 1:53:10 AM
Currency is a barriers bond that affords a degree of decentralisation-in-operation and use that isn't afforded by digital payments, even crypto for practical purposes.by asdfsa32
8/18/2026 at 5:35:52 AM
bearers* bond. Too late to edit.by asdfsa32
8/18/2026 at 1:29:12 AM
Yes, and this is a bad thing, and free societies are impossible without the possibility of payments that the government doesn’t want you to be able to make.Cryptocurrency solves that problem well, which is why governments have moved hard to effectively nerf it everywhere.
by sneak
8/18/2026 at 2:49:43 AM
> the possibility of payments that the government doesn’t want you to be able to makeThe idea that visa and mastercard provide these ...
by Nursie
8/18/2026 at 3:48:13 AM
Visa and Mastercard don't, but right now cash more or less does. If the state has a monopoly on digital payments, and can thus mass surveil all digital payments without any scrutiny, the state has a huge incentive to disincentivize or bar the use of cash. Then all it takes is a bad actor to come into power and abuse the system.by nyc640
8/18/2026 at 7:23:08 AM
No more so than with visa or mastercard, who already hand over data whenever, and hand it over to a foreign government on demand too.This fear of government services is toxic americanism.
by Nursie
8/18/2026 at 3:26:13 PM
No, the previous commenter is absolutely correct that cash transactions offer decentralization and anonymity far greater than Visa or MasterCard.by Gormo
8/19/2026 at 3:03:17 AM
Not relevant to the point I was making at all - the state running digital payments is no more an incentive to stop cash payments than Visa/MC.User data is available from either and in the case of Visa/MC it also likely leaks overseas.
by Nursie
8/18/2026 at 2:47:52 AM
The Italian government has no power over foreign cards, and will be careful to not hinder those transactions lest they want to lose their tourism income.by carlosjobim
8/18/2026 at 3:04:35 PM
When it comes down to it they do have power over the use of foreign cards in their jurisdiction. But the further indirection from the government does matter and makes abuse harder.by account42
8/18/2026 at 4:26:21 PM
Realistically the most they can do is exercise power over cards issued by Italian banks. They can't do anything about cards belonging to Italians, which have been issued by foreign banks, unless they ban all foreign cards. In which case they will lose all tourism and destroy their country completely.by carlosjobim
8/17/2026 at 9:35:38 PM
The government can already order VISA to not accept your payment and/or just make it too cost-prohibitive. Without any real recourse from your side.Direct government services typically have a universal mandate. The government won't be able to stop doing business with you.
by cyberax
8/18/2026 at 2:56:06 AM
I'd have a very hard time spending other currencies than CAD to pay my bills.by dpc050505
8/18/2026 at 9:36:50 AM
The alternatives still exist, there is just less and less reason to use them because they charge extra fees.by icantevenhold
8/17/2026 at 11:47:33 PM
> approved by your elected government.Fixed it for you. You had left some extraneous quotation marks there.
Either way, while governments should not get free pass and should be scrutinized by its citizens, we definitely should not allow corporations with ties to hostile governments (such as the case of Visa and Mastercard) any oversight of payment infrastructure.
by surgical_fire
8/17/2026 at 9:01:10 PM
> What if the ONLY payment method was the one approved by your "elected" government.Yeah, what if?
You didn't provide any argument, didn't point to any real problem. You just hinted at a "terrible bad thing". Would we have monsters under our beds or bad guys in corners to ambush us?
This sounds like VISA/Mastercad/Apple Pay playing FUD[1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt
by diego_moita
8/17/2026 at 9:10:07 PM
You realize you're arguing for a monopoly, right? One where competition is not only non-existent but also illegal, and which has complete control over how you're allowed to spend your money.I think arguing "but it's a democratic monopoly" is little comfort in this situation. Maybe you trust your government not to ever be incompetent or to use the powers granted by this monopoly in a way you disapprove of. Maybe in the short term you'd even be right to do so. But I think history has proven that over the long term that's a very foolish assumption to make.
by Ajedi32
8/17/2026 at 9:51:18 PM
Which is completely irrelevant because as the government of the country they have the power to make laws, now and in the future which compel private entities to perform actions like AML (anti money laundering) and KYC (know your customers).The end result is private entities taking money out of the system at some stage, and it doesn't shield you in any way from government incompetence or malice.
by dbetteridge
8/18/2026 at 4:30:34 AM
Suppose you have an actually decentralized payment system, like cash, or any digital system that preserves the same properties whether or not it involves a blockchain.An example of one that doesn't would be a global decentralized protocol for transferring money. You're standing in a coffee shop in LA and want to pay for a coffee so you tell your bank to transfer $5 to their bank. It works the same if your bank is in Brazil and their bank is in Switzerland as if both banks are in Nebraska, involves no intermediary other than each party's bank, and their bank shows them the transfer immediately so they know to give you the coffee.
Then the panzers roll into Washington and der Führer wants to reintroduce financial surveillance to make sure nobody is covertly buying a computer that doesn't censor the internet. Obviously they can force the bank in Nebraska to inform on the dissidents, but your bank is in Brazil and the seller's bank is in Switzerland.
Unless the system allowing that is dismantled ahead of time so the dystopia can be switched on overnight instead of needing years to erode entrenched decentralized infrastructure.
by AnthonyMouse
8/18/2026 at 1:58:14 PM
"They could theoretically seize control of everything anyway, so we should just let them seize control of everything now without a fight" doesn't seem like a great argument to me.Things like the constitution, separation of powers, checks and balances, and decentralized control of communication and commerce serve as bulwarks against tyranny. That they all could be dismantled in the future is not an argument against doing our best to preserve them now. Tyranny is not a binary state, it's a gradient with many steps along the path thereto.
(Also, "taking money out of the system" is not optional; payment systems cost money to maintain whether it's done by a private entity or by government.)
by Ajedi32
8/18/2026 at 3:27:23 PM
> The end result is private entities taking money out of the system at some stage,How is it possible to take money out of the system? Those private organizations are just participants in the commercial economy, right?
by Gormo
8/18/2026 at 3:09:20 PM
The indirection is a shield.by account42
8/17/2026 at 9:46:02 PM
You go far enough on fiscal tracking and you just wind up back where we've always been: barter. All currency is as useful as the regime backing it, and when that regime falls, barter always comes back in. Everything else is just rent seeking scaffolding to reduce barter friction (cash let's me store all the value I've created, but so could gold bars, or bitcoin, or vodka).This is to say: All currency is about control and convenience (you trade "invisible transaction" for "easily able to resolve payment") because those in power want to know/control the money and everyone else wants convenience.
by moate
8/17/2026 at 9:25:18 PM
In my country they have to make laws to FORCE shops and restaurants to accept cash. Because it is a damn hassle.by TitaRusell
8/17/2026 at 9:55:03 PM
> You realize you're arguing for a monopoly, right?Right! Like all the other monopolies that governments already have: public security (police and courts of law), external security (armed forces), public healthcare in many civilized countries, inspection of health regulations and consumer safety, monetary policy, etc.
> you trust your government not to ever be incompetent
Oh, I don't. But Apple, Visa, Mastercard and Google Pay aren't very "competent" either.
> history has proven that over the long term
History has proven that privatization of many of government monopolies are disastrous: Roman generals making private armies and destroying the Republic, abuse of forced labor from inmates in private prisons, exorbitant fees from payment providers (Visa, Mastercard), food dangerous for public consumption because the governments didn't inspect them, etc.
by diego_moita
8/18/2026 at 4:57:43 AM
> Like all the other monopolies that governments already haveYour examples are things that aren't inherently monopolies and are significantly worse if you try to make them such. It's better to give people the right to self-defense than to put them in jail for violating a "public security" monopoly for not allowing someone else to kill them when there were no police around. It's cruel to prohibit someone from paying for their own healthcare in cases when the procedure exists but the public system won't spend the money. What argument could you even make for prohibiting private inspections of products and services the likes of Consumer Reports?
The things that are better as a monopoly are so rare that they plausibly don't exist.
by AnthonyMouse
8/18/2026 at 3:33:09 PM
You're motte-and-baileying here. Arguing that there are natural/desirable monopolies for government to possess in certain high-risk cases does not automatically translate into an argument that it's desirable for governments to have monopolies in every case imaginable. As a rule of thumb, it's best to avoid monopolies wherever possible, and rely on government solving complex coordination problems only as a last resort.Pointing out that it's reasonable for governments to suppress private armies maurauding around and having wars with each other does not in any way sustain the argument that it's reasonable to allow governments to act as a forced intermediary in everyone's commercial transactions.
by Gormo
8/18/2026 at 1:25:30 AM
> But Apple, Visa, Mastercard and Google Pay aren't very "competent" either.The article doesn't say and I know nothing about India. I could guess consumers are oaying using their smartphones. So Google/Apple duopoly are still the gatekeepers to use UPI making huge profits. Of course using one of the American backends would make their control and profits orders of magnitudes bigger.
by usr1106
8/17/2026 at 9:09:20 PM
Payment rails are a natural monopoly so yeah I’m good with the gov owning it and as the article says, everyone is free to compete with the services they offer.by bix6
8/18/2026 at 5:55:27 AM
I don't want corporations controlling payments, but I don't want my government controlling payments either.What I actually wanted was for the cryptocurrency dream to become reality, but it turned into stocks instead.
by matheusmoreira
8/18/2026 at 7:31:09 PM
Your government already controls your currency and thereby your assets, why would you die on the this particular hill of how you can transact this government-created currency? For free as opposed to for a fee no less? You don't believe transaction data isn't shared (sold) by commercial parties do you?by brnt
8/18/2026 at 3:24:09 PM
> I don’t want international private companies controlling payments, better have my own elected government manage it.The ideal of course is decentralized payment systems with no middlemen, but if there are going to be middlemen, a competitive marketplace of middlemen driven primary by predictable financial incentives is vastly less scary than monopolization by power-centralizing political institutions.
by Gormo
8/17/2026 at 8:46:19 PM
I encourage you to loudly champion such a model in your nation state to whomever is in power and will listen.by toomuchtodo
8/17/2026 at 10:11:10 PM
The interesting thing is that Visa's payment rails are cheaper than Pix. Pix charges businesses 0.22% to 0.33% while the Visa network rate is only 0.10% to 0.15% per transaction.The main thing that makes card transactions more expensive is the merchant bank assuming chargeback risk, but that's because card payments are an entirely different transaction type. Pix is digital cash. You typically cannot get refunded for any reason. Cards are not digital cash. You can get refunded for fraud and unauthorized transactions.
by missedthecue
8/17/2026 at 10:13:48 PM
> The interesting thing is that Visa's payment rails are cheaper than Pix. Pix charges businesses 0.22% to 0.33% while the Visa network rate is only 0.10% to 0.15% per transaction.This is not factually accurate. Pix also has fraud controls built into the platform, and does fine doing far more volume than credit card rails in Brazil. It is an objective success, having avoided US financial service firms from skimming hundreds of basis points of total economic activity out of the Brazilian economy.
Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48052371 - May 2026 (383 comments)
Brazil's Pix ‘much cheaper' than card payments, paper by central bank economists shows - https://www.reuters.com/article/business/brazils-pix-much-ch... - March 23rd, 2022 ("Brazil’s Pix retail instant payment system is “much cheaper” than card payments for merchants, according to a paper published Wednesday by the umbrella body of the world’s central banks, highlighting its growth potential for businesses after its vertiginous rise among individuals. The paper, which was co-authored by economists at the Brazilian central bank for the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), says Pix costs an average of 0.22% of a transaction’s value for merchants, whereas debit cards cost slightly above 1% and credit cards reach 2.2% in Brazil.")
Payment technology complementarities and their consequences on the banking sector: evidence from Brazil’s Pix - https://www.bis.org/publ/bppdf/bispap152_c.pdf - December 2024
> In this paper, we employ an instrument and individual-level banking data in Brazil to examine the effects of a novel payment technology, Pix, on the use of other payment technologies and its impact on the banking sector. We find evidence that Pix increases use of the four most common payment technologies in Brazil among individuals and firms. Furthermore, our empirical evidence suggests that Pix contributes to an increase in the number of bank accounts, their use and access to credit, benefiting different types of banks. The findings indicate that the implementation of new payment technologies yields advantages not only for firms and individuals but also for the broader banking and payment industry.
by toomuchtodo
8/17/2026 at 10:12:33 PM
Visa debit, maybe, but they're way higher for Visa credit.by decimalenough
8/18/2026 at 3:53:35 AM
If the US had any foresight it could stave this off by making its own global payments system be the one with the lowest fees, and thereby keep people using US currency and US institutions.Whereas if you give other countries the obvious win that they can stop paying ~3% of their entire economy to a foreign payments network then you lose the fees anyway and that other stuff on top of it.
by AnthonyMouse
8/18/2026 at 5:03:48 AM
> If the US had any foresight it could stave this off by making its own global payments system be the one with the lowest fees,What global payments system? We have the worst payment systems in the developed world.
The US money transfer situation is so bad that all the major banks got tired of The Fed's incompetence...and simply bypassed The Fed. That's how we ended up with Zelle, which actually does instantaneous (or at least within minutes) transfers.
In 2026 it is virtually impossible to quickly move money from one account to another because every single bit of it has to pass through the US Federal Reserve's ancient systems. We're the laughing stock of the rest of the world's banking systems. Thirty years ago europeans could walk into a store, do a fund transfer to pay for something, and walk out. We still can't do that.
Literally the only way to buy something expensive in a store in the US is via credit card.
You can't use a debit card because of transaction limits and lack of consumer protections.
You can't use any of the "app" payment methods.
You can't do wire transfers.
You can't do checks because the US check clearing system is so bad, a check can initially clear (after a day or five), and then weeks later, bounce.
You can't do cash because it's now legal for cops to consider having an unusual amount of cash to be enough for reasonable suspicion and they've done some gymnastics that allow them to seize the cash and keep it even if the person is not charged or charges are dismissed.
by KennyBlanken
8/18/2026 at 5:08:52 AM
Notice that this is entirely a regulatory problem. Do we imagine that entrepreneurs in the US can't produce the technology for a good payments system? That's not the reason. The reason is that anyone who wants to build it gets squished by the regulators captured by Visa and Mastercard because they don't want anything that would take away their cut.Zelle made it through by having various limitations that make it hard for it to displace credit cards, and even that took decades before it happened.
by AnthonyMouse
8/18/2026 at 12:52:29 PM
>In 2026 it is virtually impossible to quickly move money from one account to another because every single bit of it has to pass through the US Federal Reserve's ancient systemsWhich is why FedNow went live in 2024. In 2025 it already completed processing of $864 billion in transactions in real time.
https://www.frbservices.org/resources/financial-services/fed...
2026 is already looking to exceed $1 trillion in transactions.
by delfinom
8/18/2026 at 5:37:20 AM
> You can't use a debit card because of transaction limits and lack of consumer protections.My debit card is branded Visa so it has the Visa Zero Liability protections, and I can raise the purchase limit from $6k to $25k using the app.
by dahdum
8/18/2026 at 5:18:08 AM
Zelle is not actually instantaneous. It is a frontend to ACH. The clearing of transactions still takes days.by kevin_thibedeau
8/18/2026 at 3:56:02 AM
It’s not just about cost, it’s about control and sovereignty. Other countries do not want to have their payment systems rug pulled at the whim of whomever US voters decide to put into office each election cycle. The cost to build your own is reasonable compared to what losing the capability costs.“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
Europe Fights to Loosen America’s Grip on Payment Systems - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-06-16/europe-fi... | https://archive.today/o699I - June 16th, 2026
China nears launch of mBridge as alternative to Swift – report - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48636931 - June 2026
by toomuchtodo
8/18/2026 at 4:38:29 AM
> Other countries do not want to have their payment systems rug pulled at the whim of whomever US voters decide to put into office each election cycle.Which is the reason the US is also shooting itself in the foot every time it rug pulls them.
If you want people to trust and rely on your thing then you kind of need to avoid being untrustworthy and unreliable.
by AnthonyMouse
8/18/2026 at 6:17:15 AM
If trust and reliability were a priority for America, we wouldn't be where we are today.by vkou
8/18/2026 at 11:16:36 AM
The US spent a hundred years building up soft power and all it takes to sink it is one mad emperor.by expedition32
8/18/2026 at 6:19:30 AM
> Whereas if you give other countries the obvious win that they can stop paying ~3% of their entire economy to a foreign payments networkTo be fair:
- 3% is on the higher end of the fees amounts. In the EU they are now capped at 0.3% for example
- part of the interchange fee goes to the issuing bank, which is usually local
by SkiFire13
8/18/2026 at 1:39:47 AM
I won't be surprised. In Australia, no public transport system accepts the national payment system (EFTPOS) and instead it is either a public transport specific card or one of the 3 American rails. In NSW, there was promise of a second phase to support EFTPOS but that is hasn't happened yet.The American Empire is alive and well.
by asdfsa32
8/18/2026 at 2:33:31 PM
From the Wikipedia article it sounds like these typically require PIN entry which is something that would make them less suitable to public transport applications. Normal credit cards and mobile wallets all have modes of operation that directly target the public transit use case and if EFTPOS does not then it may be excluded on that basis without imperialistic US interference.by account42
8/19/2026 at 12:58:50 AM
EFTPOS supports contactless transactions.by asdfsa32
8/19/2026 at 3:34:12 AM
Via Digital Wallets like ApplePay too: https://support.apple.com/en-au/118269by asdfsa32
8/18/2026 at 5:20:20 AM
In NSW you can tap your Opal reader with your card.by opinologo
8/18/2026 at 5:34:58 AM
A card that is using Mastercard, Visa, or American Express; no EFTPOS support.by asdfsa32
8/18/2026 at 8:57:37 AM
Indeed. https://developer.mastercard.com/success-stories/transport-f...by Maxious
8/18/2026 at 10:43:09 AM
Cards are so backward in 2026. To carry them should by itself make one shudder.by elendilm
8/18/2026 at 3:03:45 PM
Putting your card in, say, Apple Pay is equivalent. How do you think Apple Pay works? It’s tap-to-pay, equivalent to your credit card. That’s why you can use Apple Pay wherever you use tap-to-pay on your card. That’s why Apple Pay doesn’t work at Walmart and merchants need to do no work to support Apple Pay.In the US you really have no options. It’s card, or card, or maybe even card. There’s Zelle, which is irreversible. PayPal and friends, which charge a fee, so no. And crypto, which is used for drugs.
by preg_match
8/18/2026 at 5:39:16 PM
In india, nobody cares about Apple Pay. We care about UPI. Every nook and corner, every person old or young, every chai wala, every kirana shop uses it. The constraints that plague the US is irrelevant for us.Salesman can scream the amount, the customer can zoom and scan without meddling through the crowd and make the payment from a distance while the loudspeaker announces the payment.
Imagine using cards there, people will riot :)
Shops in general are wary of cards. Busy shops simply won't tolerate cards as they require someone to enter the figure.
Busy shops will shudder. Goto banglore, visit a busy street chai shop, ask him to accept cards, he will shudder.
Besides the whole Tap to Pay itself is problematic as it puts the customer at the mercy of the receiver and his device. UPI ensures customer controls how much money is being transferred. More secure. Less hassle. No physical cards. More modern
by elendilm
8/18/2026 at 3:16:52 PM
In 2026 "backward" is a dysphemism for "reliable".Not sure what's making you shudder about carrying a payment instrument that doesn't need its batteries charged, doesn't need to run firmware or an OS, doesn't need a network connection independent of the payment terminal, and isn't simultaneously a surveillance device, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.
by Gormo
8/18/2026 at 5:22:32 PM
If it's a chip card (not magstripe only) it definitely runs firmware.by lmz
8/18/2026 at 5:43:08 PM
Clearly you have not been to India. UPI will make your card economy look ancient.Why should I have to carry physical cards with me in 2026. Almost all have a capable Turing machine in their pockets.
Backwards means backwards. No euphemism. Period.
If you insist on defending a relic from a bygone age, then by all means do it.
by elendilm
8/18/2026 at 7:13:13 PM
both upi & cards are backwards. canada like etransfer to phone to email is the best modern solution so far.by kang
8/18/2026 at 7:45:42 PM
That's Brazilian pixby owebmaster
8/18/2026 at 8:04:36 PM
Which was in turn heavily borrowed from UPI :) Cheers.by elendilm
8/18/2026 at 2:28:41 PM
Of course, anyone not giving either Google, Apple or Samsung direct access to their finances is soooo backwards.by account42
8/18/2026 at 5:44:00 PM
Why should we, when we have more modern UPI?by elendilm
8/18/2026 at 4:14:39 AM
What a fall from grace for the progenitor of Non-Aligned Movement to be bowing down to USA and hurting its own people. The Nation has been betrayed by the State.by HexDecOctBin
8/18/2026 at 5:31:51 AM
I agree with the sentiment - however, even after independence, India has been ruled by the same Anglophone/phile elite with nearly the same set of laws/policies/ interests. Even the Indian constitution comes in large part from the 1935 GoI Act passed in the British Parliament.(Anglo-)India is of the Anglophones, by the Anglophones and for the Anglophones for all practical purposes.
That's why laws etc. are mandated to be written in this foreign language that's incomprehensible to the majority, and why there's a strict near-apartheid like barrier preventing higher education (and with it, higher employment) to non-Anglophones.
The only reason I imagine we don't hear about this systematic discrimination that prevent downstream material development like industrialization (as opposed to the ethereal one like caste) is perhaps because Western institutions have vested geopolitical interest in having such a large vassal, intellectually if not politically.
by akssri
8/18/2026 at 5:34:40 AM
> mandated to be written in this foreign language that'I am sure people from the Northern belt would be happy if the laws were written in Tamil (my mother tongue).
by whyagaindavid
8/18/2026 at 5:45:58 AM
EU laws get written in 24 languages - and the CJEU (the equivalent of SC) doesn't give precedence to any one "master" language. These arguments for a "master-language" (let alone a foreign one), by both Hindi/Tamil nationalists, are cliched and threadbare.In my opinion, these are just excuses for continued colonial-era English-imposition - because it's often only the aforementioned section that makes such brain-dead arguments.
For all the politically-ostentatious love of their own mother-languages there's not a single technical-university of any great reputation in either of these (it's worse in other Indic languages). The economic-value of these languages is close to zero if not negative.
Sheldon Pollock notes that, even in classical studies and literature, the institutions have turned utterly incompetent and filled with political retainers who can barely hold a mantle to people from previous generations who were experts in linguistics and manuscriptology.
So much for "Hindi/Tamil..." pride...
by akssri
8/18/2026 at 7:27:23 AM
Comments like these do injustice with Indian constitution which grants:1. Protection of Language and Script (Article 29)
Article 29(1): "Any section of the citizens... having a distinct language, script or culture of its own shall have the right to conserve the same.
Article 29(2): "No citizen shall be denied admission into any educational institution maintained by the State or receiving aid out of State funds on grounds only of religion, race, caste, language or any of them."
Article 30(1): "All minorities, whether based on religion or language, shall have the right to establish and administer educational institutions of their choice."
Article 350: "Every person shall be entitled to submit a representation for the redress of any grievance to any officer or authority... in any of the languages used in the Union or in the State..."
Article 350. Language to be used in representations for redress of grievances- Every person shall be entitled to submit a representation for the redress of any grievance to any officer or authority of the Union or a State in any of the languages used in the Union or in the State, as the case may be.
Article 350A. Facilities for instruction in mother-tongue at the primary stage - It shall be the endeavor of every State and of every local authority within the State to provide adequate facilities for instruction in the mother-tongue at the primary stage of education to children belonging to linguistic minority groups; and the President may issue such directions to any State as he considers necessary or proper for securing the provision of such facilities.
Article 350B. Special Officer for linguistic minorities-
There shall be a Special Officer for linguistic minorities to be appointed by the President.
It shall be the duty of the Special officer to investigate all matters relating to the safeguards provided for linguistic minorities under this Constitution and report to the President upon those matters at such intervals as the President may direct, and the president shall cause all such reports to be laid before each House of Parliament and sent to the Government of the States concerned.
Article 351. Directive for development of the Hindi language- It shall be the duty of the Union to promote the spread of the Hindi language, to develop it so that it may serve as a medium of expression for all the elements of the composite culture of India and to secure its enrichment by assimilating without interfering with its genius, the forms, style and expressions used in Hindustani and in the other languages of India specified in the Eighth Schedule, and by drawing, wherever necessary or desirable, for its vocabulary, primarily on Sanskrit and secondarily on other languages.
Amendment Act Year Languages Added Resulting Total
Original Constitution 1950 14 Original Languages 14 languages
21st Amendment Act 1967 Sindhi 15 languages
71st Amendment Act 1992 Konkani, Manipuri, Nepali 18 languages
92nd Amendment Act 2003 Bodo, Dogri, Maithili, Santhali 22 languages
96th Amendment Act 2011 "Oriya" to "Odia" 22 languages
by vikrantrathore
8/18/2026 at 9:46:26 AM
These laws mean zilch - the state of Karnataka, which hosts Bengaluru, where demagogues routinely raise Xenophobia based on language, has exactly 1-school that teaches Science/Mathematics at the high-school level (PUC, 11/12th) in Kannada.Try using these "laws" and "rights" when you're trying to apply for a university, or asking a IIT to teach you in Hindi/Tamil LOL. These provisions are mostly used to skirt around the (generally onerous) laws by so-called "minority institutions" (eg. Manipal).
It's very disingenous to make such arguments by anyone with their eyes open in India. It's almost like the classic quip (almost a criticism of proto-liberalism) about the British empire: everyone is free in it as long as he's British!
Indians will go to Germany and learn German; go to Japan and learn Japanese; but will resist building anything of value with the culture/language of their own states of residence. The Anglophone-Indians will religiously preach a particularly seductive form of nationalist-liberalism internally for India that continues all the colonial structures of the British empire, because it helps them optimize for their own economic outcomes (ofc. they do this internationally too).
Absurd state of affairs tbh - and it has (eg. Blume Ventures' report) and will keep India poor with the wealth limited to ~5-10% of the population.
by akssri
8/18/2026 at 4:38:54 PM
> Indians will go to Germany and learn German; go to Japan and learn Japanese; but will resist building anything of value with the culture/language of their own states of residence. The AI wish they do. If you read Facebook group Indians in Frankfurt - you will the entitled Indians - especially those coming for IT jobs - in deputation for Infosys etc (that speak in many ways not the best english) trying to talk in English with all bureacrats or even 85 year old - and expect - every damn plumbber or cleaner to speak English - as if they have scored 99.% in TOEFL or so.
They constantly say: See in India everyone speaks English. why can't you all speak English? When I point out if your go to Coimbatore and speak English in Tahsildar office or RTO - you will get f*ked.
I know the feeling because - I am from South - grew up in North. average person has so much hatred. Until you fix that you cant do anything.
> but will resist building anything of value with the culture/language of their own states of residence. Th
You have some horrible feeling for UK. Forget that. Go and tell Narayanamoothy or Modi to give jobs in software (and every other whitecollar) exclusively to people that have linguistic ability.
Blaming others is the escapism that you Indians are happy for.
by whyagaindavid
8/19/2026 at 5:26:41 AM
> You have some horrible feeling for UK. Forget that.You have a serious issue with general comprehension, sir.
I've not once brought up UK or Western countries - my issue was/is/will-be with the Anglophone-Indian elites (who think they're honorary part of UK now ?), who will paint themselves as saints to the world with M.K Gandhi's face, but who are vicious corpulent vessels of the most vile forms of racism from the worst periods of the British-empire of 1 1/2 century before. India has more British laws inherited from this period, while UK itself has completely transformed itself (including the Civil-Service).
I'll not reply to the rest of the screed - that well-studied pedagogical gap of having to spend inordinate amount of time "muggin-up" things in English instead of actually understanding things means that I can't get much across anyway...
by akssri
8/18/2026 at 12:04:58 PM
Last I checked, the Union Govt is not going around imposing English everywhere like they are pushing Hindi.Also India's wealth is always going to be limited to 5-10℅ of the citizenry. India is pretty much USA on steroids at this point - a handful of capitalists controlling a lot of public infrastructure, ministers openly indulging in corruption, routine exploitation of the working class, piss poor healthcare and education provision where they try to skirt around the evolution question and Gandhism. The bowing down of India to the US is no surprise, given all of these other factors already playing around in the background.
by fakedang
8/18/2026 at 9:17:33 AM
> Doubt in Germany a user can submit documents in French and can get have special protection by Germany for promoting French language.I did submit a non-German language document to get my German citizenship.
At the end, whatever you say - India is f*ked up by regional politics. With English a poor person from region A can go to B and find some job/livelihood.
Are you against it? I understand you want homogeneity - it is not there.
But people like you creating divisions by telling
>>>> It shall be the duty of the Union to promote the spread of the Hindi language, to
will promote more chaos. Good for rest of the rich world especially west and China.
Like my physics teacher used to say in Chennai... We don't need foreigners to mess us - We Indians do it for us.
All you want is India to fight like Arab states - internally. Divide and conquer. Thank you from the West and China.
by whyagaindavid
8/18/2026 at 8:16:38 AM
TL;DR Tamil Nadu should ... be its own country?by quesomaster9000
8/18/2026 at 11:59:18 AM
It doesn't sound like a particularly large leap to think that polities as large as the Indian federal states could work as countries.by logseman
8/18/2026 at 7:07:24 AM
> colonial-era English-impositionMaking it 45 languages etc will not solve issues. The point is not master or slave. Stop that victim mindset.
If people follow law and order all will be fine. Telling reputation etc is all good. Foreign people study and celebrate Indic languages better. Foreign institutes spend more grants in that.
> there's not a single technical-university of any great reputation in either of these (it's wor
It was tried in S.India - Anna University. Very few people joined to do B E in Computer Science Engg.
The real question is every ruler wants to keep population stupid.
You still celebrate people like NarayanaMoorthy or L& T chairman. biju or ola CEOs lying in public.
At the end, there is endemic corruption. Blaming UK or West will not solve anything.
by whyagaindavid
8/18/2026 at 5:54:39 AM
[dead]by vee-kay
8/18/2026 at 6:10:43 AM
It’s written in English because it’s the language spoken by the educated.My wife is from south India, and I’m a frequent visitor to India.
It’s evident that Hindi nationalism is to the benefit of the north, while southern culture is slowly being replaced.
by Gud
8/18/2026 at 9:42:54 AM
Hong Kong also uses English.I assume it does have advantages. The common law of the ex British colonies are all broadly compatible, so there's the possibility of having judges from other countries decide cases. Trade and maritime law is/ was basically British law. I would guess it also helps foreign investment if the law is in a language those investors understand.
Yes, these were probably better reasons in the past though.
by benj111
8/18/2026 at 11:18:24 AM
Melodramatic much? It's a trade deal (if the parent is to be believed). Both sides are getting something out of it. Presumably, India needs access to the US market more than the other way round.by bubblethink
8/18/2026 at 12:21:21 PM
> Both sides are getting something out of itIndian kings made deals with the East India Company. What did the people got out of it? Destitution?
So no, I am not being melodramatic. India has a history of the State betraying the Nation. Sadly, this is but the latest chapter in a very old saga.
by HexDecOctBin
8/18/2026 at 5:43:55 PM
Now?Don't forever be in victim mode. India is a democracy.
People elect the members of parliament.
Finally you admit blame on your own kings/rulers.
by coffe2mug
8/18/2026 at 6:19:54 PM
What do you mean "finally"? And why are you so willing to accept the fault of Kings but not the fault of the current Government in circumstances that look increasingly similar each passing day?Just because a Government was elected doesn't mean that it can't be corrupt, what kind of naive understanding of politics is this?
by HexDecOctBin
8/18/2026 at 11:03:35 AM
Well, NAM would only be successful with two power centers. One of the power centers disappeared which precipitated this state. It has nothing to do with the state as such.by whateverboat
8/18/2026 at 12:22:57 PM
India has gotten more powerful since the Cold War. If Iran can stand up to USA, then surely India can too; but only if the State has not sold its soul and its Nation.by HexDecOctBin
8/18/2026 at 4:39:25 PM
India's per capita income is still only 1/6th of the world average. Iran can stand up to USA with a lot of destruction, which is exactly what is happening with India.Indian numbers look impressive just because of the size of the population and demographic dividend and 90's information technology. However, successive governments have squandered all of those benefits, and the bad infrastructure, bad governance and badly educated population is coming to bite them back.
Things do not look good for India at all. I was born and lived in India till around a decade ago, everytime I go to India, I just see more potential being wasted and things become worse (even though they appear good on paper). India's GDP in 2020 is for the first time back at the 1965 levels (in relation to the world GDP) and now climate change is going to wreak havoc and things will get worse again.
I hope to be proven wrong but I'm sorely disappointed everytime.
by whateverboat
8/18/2026 at 6:22:09 PM
And much of this is result of corruption and mis-governance. Hence my comment of the State betraying the Nation.by HexDecOctBin
8/18/2026 at 9:37:20 AM
Respect to China who foresaw this and built a massive economy without using anything of US.by whitefang
8/18/2026 at 5:50:07 AM
Brazil faces similar pressures from credit card companies via Trump. We're cutting them out of their precious profits and they don't like that.by matheusmoreira
8/18/2026 at 7:57:15 AM
Any such issues on health care side? Here in India, at least in my state (Kerala), American Private Equity giants such as BlackStone and KKR are acquiring major hospital chains. I am worried they will ruin our healthcare just like what happened in USA. Healthcare was one thing India had better than USA (at least in availability and cost, availability as in being able to see a doctor same day or getting an MRI in a few hours). Now, that will disappear.https://indhospitalsolution.com/blogs/keralas-hospital-gold-...
> The research from the United States — which is a decade further down this road — is sobering. Studies of PE-acquired hospitals document consistent patterns: non-revenue-generating services reduced, staff-to-patient ratios cut, ancillary charges inflated, and a systematic shift toward high-margin procedures.
https://jeswinjos.medium.com/someone-is-quietly-buying-keral...
by notaslave
8/18/2026 at 11:27:28 AM
I haven't observed it happening in the context of hospitals, but it absolutely is happening to medical education. Brazilian conglomerate Afya was born as a literal PE firm and by now has rolled up many if not most of the private medical schools. It's controlled by some german education conglomerate though.Their SEC filing mentions they engage in "deregulation advocacy" which is no doubt a hilarious euphemism for lobbying the brazilian government so it relaxes quality standards for medical schools. No doubt they're responsible for much of the enshittification here.
by matheusmoreira
8/18/2026 at 7:12:46 AM
> US-India trade dealsThere it is! Behind every revealed shittery and fuckery, there's one name that constantly come up. As for this example, I'll give you a clue: it's not India.
by penguin_booze
8/18/2026 at 3:51:26 AM
> One of the reasons why the fee is being considered is under the pressure of other payment providers who are loosing to UPI in Indian market.Correlation is not causation. Banks have demanded this (getting rid of Zero MDR) for many years, even prior to Trump assuming office. However, it may have momemtum now due to the impending trade deal. But that's speculation either way, and the burden of proof rests with whoever is making that assertion.
What the government conceded (or gained, which could be a boring topic relatively) would make an impactful story. Unfortunately, newpapers today mostly rely on correlation rather than doing the hard work of finding someone who'll spill the beans. There's very little of Tehelka-style "Operation West End" (or "All the President's Men" for a movie equivalent) going on these days.
by jeswin
8/18/2026 at 10:17:21 AM
* association I mean, not correlation.by jeswin
8/18/2026 at 5:17:09 AM
I assumed you were joking about this, but wow, the US indeed did demand this from both India and Brazil. Brazil rejected while India knelt and surrendered. US also demanded that India not enforce any market cap limit for UPI payment providers to prevent monopolies - and India surrendered there as well.Unfortunately, current Modi govt is compromised due to Adani and the Epstein files. It can only hop and jump to whatever Trump orders.
by lenkite
8/18/2026 at 2:31:59 AM
these mfs have no shame do they?by mikelitoris
8/18/2026 at 3:05:09 AM
>India is forced to subsidize farmers to the tune of $37B JUST for urea. Governments routinely offer free bus services to women, free cash handouts to women, free electricity to farmers (who then use the power to pump out groundwater and grow paddy in areas otherwise not suitable for it). The list goes on.>A $1B subsidy to eliminate friction on the payment front is peanuts.
These are entirely independent issues.
Should India subsidize farmers like this? IDK, maybe
Should India charge fees on UPI payments? IDK, maybe
by nonethewiser
8/17/2026 at 10:21:13 PM
I don't think adding a 0.5% surcharge to transactions over Rupees 2000 is "pound foolish". Most transactions are smaller, and someone has to pay to maintain the infrastructure. :shrug:Also: just because money is being wasted on cause $X does not mean that there's more of it lying around to be wasted on cause $Y! You've got to draw the line somewhere!
by mlmonkey
8/18/2026 at 6:19:48 AM
> someone has to pay to maintain the infrastructureDo you know what it costs to run the cash infrastructure? Maintaining physical branches, employees to handle cash, counting machines, counterfeit detectors, security personnel, armoured transport, theft risk etc. The costs of maintaining a centralised digital infrastructure pales in comparison to this. If anything you should get a discount for using digital.
by potamic
8/18/2026 at 10:58:27 AM
There are other hidden benefits as well. Tax evasion and money laundering become a lot harder in a system that tracks transactions. That can be massive benefit or a dystopian nightmare depending on the people in charge, but for many governments that's something worth throwing money at.by jeroenhd
8/18/2026 at 11:21:48 AM
At no point in human history did the government not try to control currencies.by expedition32
8/18/2026 at 11:40:07 AM
But only since the digital age did the government actually _succeed_ in controlling currency on a massive scale, right up until the point cryptocurrency took off (and even that can be tracked, most cryptocurrencies are based on a public ledger after all).by jeroenhd
8/18/2026 at 3:50:13 PM
> That can be massive benefit or a dystopian nightmare depending on the people in charge,That just resolves to "dystopian nightmare", then. Any system whose proper functioning is dependent on always having the right people in charge is one that will inevitably function improperly.
by Gormo
8/18/2026 at 12:10:35 AM
> someone has to pay to maintain the infrastructure. :shrug:Under Indian law, companies must spend 2pc of their net profit on CSR activities (corporate social responsibility). Ask banks to use that money. The Indian banking sector made a combined profit of $40B this year. 2pc of that is $800M. Close to the $1B number.
> You've got to draw the line somewhere!
Draw it in the farm sector! They do not have to pay income tax on their income, get subsidies on fertilizers, free electricity, guaranteed prices for their crops. Small farmers cannot take advantage due to average holding size, and large farmers laugh all the way to the bank!
by sieve
8/18/2026 at 12:13:19 AM
Is "2pc" the same as 2%?by ButlerianJihad
8/18/2026 at 12:15:43 AM
Yes. Habit from typing on the phone where the % sign is hidden away somewhere on my keyboard!by sieve
8/18/2026 at 4:25:39 AM
I think you overestimate how many millionaire farmers we have. Most of Indian farm sector is small holdings and they need the subsidies. Most of the power is with intermediaries and not farmers themselves. The intermediaries fund the farmers through high interest loans and additionally they provide distribution. The situation is much more complex and needs a thorough rework.by ivell
8/18/2026 at 10:41:56 AM
The problem is not with the poor/small farmers. Those people are genuinely fucked over. The problem are the larger "farmers", quotations because they do not do the farming themselves, rather renting the fields out to landless laborers at extraordinary costs, in a system reminiscent of the medieval feudal systemsby akshitgaur2005
8/18/2026 at 9:39:05 AM
how does one become a farmer? seems like a good life. i'm indian btw.by uwagar
8/18/2026 at 8:06:01 AM
While most transactions are smaller,> Transactions above ₹2,000 account for only about 4% of total UPI transaction volume, but they make up roughly 67% of the total transaction value.
https://www.outlookbusiness.com/news/will-upi-payments-above...
by notaslave
8/18/2026 at 4:00:11 AM
Agree. Antiquated Indian farm subsidies are the biggest impediment to sustained growth. Nothing can be done, because it'd be electoral suicide to touch them. India's holding more than 100 million tons (!) of grain due to the mandatory procurement policy. It is not merely wastage, but also an environmental disaster to keep doing this.$1B or even $5B is nothing, given the impact UPI has had across the country.
by jeswin
8/18/2026 at 8:16:11 PM
Most of these reserve grains are already being diverted for Ethanol production once they "expire". It is sold to these Ethanol producers at low rates (subsidised). The Ethanol producers however sell these grains and make a tidy profit. They also buy back near-rotting grains dirt-cheap from these same suppliers and other markets. And then make Ethanol from it. The suppliers who bought the rice illegally, repack it and sell it again to the government! A good example of indian systemic corruption - Ethanol manufacturing: The ₹1,000 crore rice scam explained - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lMw47iw6PQby thisislife2
8/18/2026 at 3:27:59 AM
India (central govt.) also doesn't tax farmers even when they've made bumper profits from their produce. The moment a political party even mentions of taxing rich farmers, their politics is over.Basically country is going to shits purely due to votebank politics, and this is true across party lines no matter who is in power.
by kushalpandya
8/18/2026 at 3:41:55 AM
Do rich farmers really have enough strength in numbers to outvote other populations in India?by dartharva
8/18/2026 at 10:45:13 AM
They certainly wield power to mobilise poor farmers, leading to anarchy.Highly recommend reading about Farm Bills that govt. had to take back even when surveys by Supreme Court showed that over 85% farmers across the country were in favor of those bills and wanted them turned into laws.
by kushalpandya
8/18/2026 at 5:37:07 AM
A large number of politicians are farmers. So...by whyagaindavid
8/18/2026 at 4:24:30 AM
Where do you see $1B subsidy? There is no subsidy. The system is already profitable. This will generate a new revenue stream of $1B for banks out of thin air that has no reason to exist.by potamic
8/18/2026 at 6:07:10 AM
Don't forget no income tax on "agricultural income" even if that income is millions.by ankurdhama
8/17/2026 at 8:19:39 PM
It's a bargain and exactly what governments are for. It's 70¢ per Indian. It's a payment highway and commerce is good.edit: replied to comment was rephrased during reply.
by pessimizer
8/18/2026 at 3:50:39 AM
How is it financially sustainable?by sidcool
8/18/2026 at 5:46:29 AM
Indian farmer subsidization is retarded. india needs to make farming as unattractive a profession as possible. Every social ill in the subcontinent is ultimately due to the fact that the majority of the population is in farming.by anon291
8/18/2026 at 5:48:28 AM
Who will feed 1.5 billion people then? Being dependent on trump for corn and rice?by 2Gkashmiri
8/18/2026 at 11:28:20 PM
You don't need the majority of your population in farming to feed your people. In developed countries basically no one does farming. Farmers are technologists who operate vast fleet of machines to do the bulk of the work for them and who think in systems, not the quaint image of a simple man and his ploughIn other words in developed countries farming is mechanized in India it's not and until it's mechanized India is doomed to always be an agricultural pastoralist developing Nation
by anon291
8/18/2026 at 7:44:03 AM
Bro thinks he can create more rice and wheat using `dd` command.by never_inline
8/18/2026 at 11:30:36 PM
The majority of Indians are involved in farming. In developed countries it's like three percent of the work force directly involved in farming. The job of farming is completely different in India versus developed nations. In developed countries farmers are essentially technical factory operators who use immense mechanization to grow crops. In India, a guy is steering an ox pulling a cart. You cannot build a developed nation without mechanized farming.by anon291
8/18/2026 at 9:20:53 AM
[dead]by coderedart
8/17/2026 at 11:46:10 PM
Why to women?by mock-possum
8/18/2026 at 12:14:05 AM
India is a conservative society. Women are 50% of the vote bank. They actually vote in larger numbers compared to men in many constituencies. They manage households and are very quick to notice price increases etc. The free bus rides and cash handouts are basically a transparent attempt to buy their vote. It is what it is.by sieve
8/18/2026 at 1:33:22 AM
I wonder when Marx wrote "religion is opium for the masses" he had India in mind because goddamn it fits perfectly.by TitaRusell
8/18/2026 at 3:44:51 AM
It fits perfectly literally everywhere on earth, the main challenge is in claiming that the masses can tolerate not being "intoxicated". For all we know religion is an inevitable characteristic of the human species.by dartharva
8/18/2026 at 8:24:42 PM
- Who benefits from the free bus for women scheme? - https://www.cag.org.in/blogs/who-benefits-free-bus-women-sch...- Free Bus Service Schemes for Women in India: A Gendered Approach to Public Transport and Economic Inclusion - https://www.impriindia.com/insights/policy-update/free-bus-s...
- Freebie or Freedom? Tamil Nadu’s Free Bus Travel Scheme for Women - https://www.impriindia.com/insights/policy-update/free-bus-s...
by thisislife2
8/18/2026 at 5:38:42 AM
This happened post COVID - to help poor. A few states did that - saw electoral gains. It is not nationwide.There is also a misconception. It is not in all public transport. In TN state, it is on select buses - slower buses only.
by whyagaindavid
8/18/2026 at 9:36:47 AM
In Kerala, its not for poor. Its for all women. If the women is traveling with a 5 year old boy, she has to pay for the boy though.by notaslave
8/18/2026 at 10:50:01 AM
I wrote to serve poor. In a way, women are financially marginalised in most of humanity. So nothing wrong about that.by whyagaindavid
8/18/2026 at 1:34:25 PM
Are the political parties really giving freebies because they want to serve the poor and improve their lives? Or is it a means to come to power so that they can loot us more? And are the political parties that resort to such tactics even capable of improving our economy in the first place, or ruin it further? I don't trust these tactics.by notaslave
8/18/2026 at 4:32:17 PM
that is a different issue. Even with the free bus services it will benefit many.If you are asking if the politicians are bad then it is yes.
by whyagaindavid
8/17/2026 at 9:04:48 PM
[dead]by spelk
8/17/2026 at 9:11:27 PM
[flagged]by thisislife2
8/17/2026 at 9:39:32 PM
> Treat the payment backbone as a public infrastructure.Yeah. Let banks fund this out of the 2% of NP they must use for CSR activities if they have to.
> he too subscribes to the anarcho-right political ideology of transferring wealth from the poor and the middle-class to the rich
I do not see this. In fact, he is TOO socialist. He was elected on the platform (one of them at least) of "minimum government, maximum governance" and has actually continued to expand the reach of government. The bureaucracy has not been tamed. The government continues to run businesses. Build a sovereign wealth/investment fund like Singapore if you want a share of the growth in the economy instead of running loss-making businesses for decades.
And all the centralization of decision-making. He is more of Nehru/Indira than he thinks he is.
by sieve
8/17/2026 at 10:03:19 PM
> I do not see this. In fact, he is TOO socialist.GST implementation, Demonetisation, unnecessary COVID restrictions etc. resulted in anarchy that was all designed to drain wealth (make labour cheaper) and / or transfer wealth from ordinary people or small businesses to the corporates (to make select rich, richer). He has also weakened all social welfare programs of the previous government by reducing funds or introducing restrictions designed to sabotage it for the intended beneficiaries. The centralised decision-making stems from the fascist ideology that he subscribes to (RSS, the indian organisation that he emerged from, admired Mussolini and Hitler).
by thisislife2
8/17/2026 at 10:38:55 PM
> GST implementationNeeded. I run a business. The previous tax system was horrific in its complexity and corruption.
> Demonetisation
Implementation could have been better. But there is too much cash in the system for my comfort. Things must be digitized. We must ensure people pay their rightful share of taxes.
> unnecessary COVID restrictions etc
Hindsight. I remember how the media was blaming every single death on the government and making videos of funerals. We saw the best and worst of humanity during that period.
> He has also weakened all social welfare programs of the previous government by reducing funds or introducing restrictions designed to sabotage it for the intended beneficiaries
Have you looked at the subsidy bills? Have you looked at the finances of the state governments? You know Modi was against the rewadi culture and then had to get into competitive cash giving? I absolutely hate it. But that is the cost of doing politics in India.
Cities provide free bus rides to women, and run buses in competition to metro routes, making metros nonviable. This is such short-sighted behavior. I do not know what to say.
> fascist ideology
I do not agree with the criticism. At all. This is fairly typical of the nominal left in India and outside. Will paint with a large brush. To understand the RSS, you must go back to Hindu-Muslim relations in British India, to stoning of Hindu processions in Nagpur of the 1920s (which continue across India to this day), to the Moplah massacres and forced conversions of Hindus, and even farther back.[1]
My biggest problem with the RSS is the hubris in the top echelon and deep anti-intellectualism. Bhagwat's "same DNA" theory is a laugh riot.
But this is a different topic more suitable for a different thread.
[1] Pakistan: A 300-year-old project that Jinnah completed with Partition (https://www.indiatoday.in/opinion/story/partition-india-paki...)
by sieve
8/18/2026 at 12:07:39 AM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as, clearly, we are on different sides of the political spectrum and look at these things differently:- Demonetisation, GST and lockdown: How the Modi government has wrecked India’s small businesses - https://scroll.in/article/1011509/demonetisation-gst-and-loc...
- India after Goods and Services Tax: Hundreds of thousands lose jobs, small businesses shut down - https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/india/india-after-goods-and-...
- How GST is killing small businesses with inspector raj and suffocating compliance - https://theprint.in/opinion/how-gst-is-killing-small-busines...
Dr. Manmohan Singh's conception of GST was indeed a good and necessary idea. But they way it was twisted and implemented to benefit crony capitalists and destroy India's informal economy was foolish as it was corrupt.
by thisislife2
8/18/2026 at 12:31:58 AM
Who even writes these articles?! India used to have an excise, sales tax (replaced by VAT in the early 2000s) and octroi system. And LBT (Local Body Tax) where the municipal corporation staff that do not understand the B of balance sheet could harass you endlessly on your purchase and sales record. And a hundred other random industry-specific taxes. GST replaced all of that.Businessmen were able to navigate all this mess and were suddenly unable to handle GST? Please!
Again, we are a large country and implementation is more often than not a shit show. The bureaucracy is extremely corrupt and the politicians in charge of ministries cannot tame them. They literally say to businessmen: "The minister will leave after the election next year. I will still be here."
> But GST inspectors (many of them have seen the good old days of sales tax and VAT, and obviously don’t want to let go of their power to extract bribes) harass such firms on flimsy grounds like ‘why don’t you have a company’s nameplate clearly displayed’ that can create nuisance in residential areas. [from the Print article]
This is very common low-level harassment. very little you can do about it except rewrite the laws to make such things non-actionable.
Article 311 of the constitution makes it next to impossible to fire public servants. This is why all the corrupt/non-performing officers get transferred, not sacked![1]
[1] 311. Dismissal, removal or reduction in rank of persons employed in civil capacities under the Union or a State (https://indiankanoon.org/doc/47623/)
by sieve
8/19/2026 at 11:15:07 AM
> India used to have an excise, sales tax (replaced by VAT in the early 2000s) and octroi system.And all of them were introduced with care to reduce the transition pain points of the MSMEs. None of it was as deliberately convoluted and poorly rolled out as the initial rollout of the GST by the Modi government. The tax officials themselves did not understand half of it, adding to the chaos and confusion of implementing it. Again, all this was deliberate and by design, in my opinion.
by thisislife2
8/18/2026 at 2:35:07 AM
I am not sure where you are from but just look at PC's comments and notice the clear and pronounced ideology segue from the first comment of this thread to the comments down this thread. Just notice how, as the the typical for the right, this commenter slowly starts saying things like "Who even writes these articles?" for anything that clashes with or questions questions their ideology. Very specifically pointing out "free bus rides to women" which is very famous in India and associated with a state not run by the BJP (i.e central ruling party)> Businessmen were able to navigate all this mess and were suddenly unable to handle GST? Please!
I mean someone can say this with straight face in India today? Ffs :D
Anyway what I am trying to say is - PC very swiftly tried to portray that they are here for "engaging" until they were not and to resort the "this is fake media" style of engagement.
I mean ffs PC themselves linked an article by India Today. Yes, India Today.
by crossroadsguy
8/18/2026 at 3:23:42 AM
@dang You can split this thread if it is OT---
> Very specifically pointing out "free bus rides to women" which is very famous in India and associated with a state not run by the BJP (i.e central ruling party)
I am a pretty political/ideological person. I never try to hide that. But I support the government when I think they are right, and criticize them when they are wrong.
I guess you missed my point about cash handouts to women? That BJP governments are doing right now? My very first comment is a criticism of the government's current step! You want me to criticize the cash handouts and spare the free bus rides?
> I mean someone can say this with straight face in India today? Ffs :D
Say what with a straight face? Someone who managed to deal with the excise department but is unable to handle the GST department beggars belief. Which is what all those articles were about. Excise/sales tax/vat/GST are all the same people. Their nature is not going to change because the law changed.
> "engaging"
I am "engaging." It does not mean I have to sing the tune you expect. This is why I specifically said "But this is a different topic more suitable for a different thread," because talking about the politics of it eventually leads to flamewars and tone policing.
> article by India Today.
It is an opinion piece. About Islam on the Indian subcontinent. If the RSS is brought up, people need to know the context of their origin. About what happened on the subcontinent in that era.
by sieve
8/18/2026 at 6:12:50 AM
Right :)As for invoking @dang, I hope dang at least has some sort of custom notification for his own username mentions. I wouldn't mind this entire thread/sub-thread getting nuked, along with mine and your comments (yes, both!). But as things go on hn, and dang has emphatically shown over the years, some OT discussions are more OT than other OT discussions. So yeah, there you go.
And you specifically pointing out things in your comment? There was a reason I chose not to reply to you. (And no, I am not implying you should not have chosen to reply to me, not at all!)
by crossroadsguy
8/18/2026 at 2:52:53 AM
All the data about India's demonetisation points to it being a complete and utter waste of time. The goalposts kept shifting and the whole aim was never clear. People died, please do not minimise their deaths.The absolute disaster of how COVID was managed was a shame, and is a borderline crime against humanity. Again, please do not minimise the deaths of millions of Indians as "the media was blaming every single death on the government". The government of Indian was directly responsible for that entire fiasco.
by eldaisfish
8/17/2026 at 11:11:33 PM
> he too subscribes to the anarcho-right political ideologyTrump is not at all a libertarian? He's probably the least libertarian republican president in modern history. He is big government, anti-free market and anti-global markets (tariffs), pro-state intervention in industry favouring big legacy businesses (CHIPs act, auto companies, etc), and big on debt spending.
by dmix
8/18/2026 at 12:31:57 AM
Did Trump's Tariffs create confusion and mayhem, increase price (drain wealth) and ultimately lead to the siphoning of billions of tax payer money (again, another drain) to rich corporates? Yes, it has. Make of that what you will ...by thisislife2
8/18/2026 at 12:55:45 AM
> Make of that what you will ...you have no concept of the political or economic spectrum, gotcha
If you need some help google "authoritarian capitalism", "state capitalism", "crony capitalism", or "corporatocracy". All of those are in opposition to anarcho-capitalism. Aka rather than limit government power they encourage the expansion of government influence in industry, thereby enriching the entrenched power players (megacorps) and subsequently greatly reward politicians and ex-gov employees who played along.
Anthropic/Dario is working on becoming the modern poster boy of this.
by dmix
8/18/2026 at 3:10:36 PM
Your confusion is understandable as Americans use a different political spectrum scale (i.e. Americans have their own political labelling system) - outside America, anyone would scoff, and even laugh, at the claim that the Democratic Party in the US is supposed to be the "left". (For the rest of the world, both the Democratic party and the Republican Party are centre-right parties, with current Trump administration leaning even more to the right- ...).by thisislife2
8/19/2026 at 11:37:33 PM
I see you're a pro-russian Eurasianist tankie (in the modern terminally-online sense) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49208726> outside America, anyone would scoff, and even laugh, at the claim that the Democratic Party in the US is supposed to be the "left".
Everyone is aware Europeans are as ideologically and culturally self-centered as Americans. They make this apparent every chance they get on the internet.
by dmix
8/20/2026 at 2:07:00 AM
I am an Indian - I am only "pro-Russian" or "pro-American" depending on the politics.by thisislife2