8/3/2026 at 7:43:16 AM
A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality.Will a little bit of empathy be nicer, sure, but I cannot complain. Speaking of which, a lot of German natives complain and some are even leaving the country (around 100k left last year), but honestly I have visited / lived in nine countries, and people have no idea how good they have it here. I came here with a bag, twenty euros in my pocket and a job offer, a dozen years later I have pretty much all basic comforts and stability one can dream of, my kids have a bright future waiting for them, all this is not possible in many countries.
by rockyj
8/3/2026 at 8:18:21 AM
> Speaking of which, a lot of German natives complain and some are even leaving the country (around 100k left last year), but honestly I have visited / lived in nine countries, and people have no idea how good they have it here.The grass is always greener on the other side ... until you actually dare to find out. Having lived and worked in many a country, I second your opinion that it is often about trade offs. Problems will come and go. You have to choose the problem you want to work with.
Germany certainly is one of the top countries to live in.
by wuschel
8/3/2026 at 8:57:05 AM
My opinion (immigrant for the 2nd time, currently in Germany since 2013- so I've lived in 3 countries when counting my native one):Basically, all rich/"western" countries are pretty decent. Some better than other, but they're all 'ok' or rather they all have plenty of 'ok' options for people able to work at somewhat in-demands fields (despite the financial situation of the last couple years a career in tech or tech adjacent generally still fits that category).
If you go somewhere where there's "real" problems, countries like Egypt, India, Ethiopia (altho of course there are nice areas in these countries too) you realize most of the time you'd rather live in any rich country than in a poor country. And there are more people worldwide living in countries ± like India than in countries ± like Germany.
by ido
8/3/2026 at 9:47:34 AM
[flagged]by usuaof
8/3/2026 at 10:39:15 AM
> If you like how a country does things, why not change the country you originate from instead of going to that other country?Because it's neigh impossible for an individual to meaningfully change parts of the culture they dislike which are ingrained for hundreds of years.
How am I supposed to change one of the major issues plaguing my home country: corruption? It's ingrained at all levels, from politicians to the police, and people participate in it because it's simply the way it is. By rejecting corruption I just made my life harder at all levels, it took me months longer to fix tax issues because I didn't want to pay someone who knew someone and could have it fixed in a matter of days; registering my car at the time took a whole week of visiting different offices, paying government fees in-person at banks so I could get receipts officially stamped, ordering a plate was a 2-day endeavour, I could have paid a person who would have fixed everything in a day but that involves being part of corruption so I rejected it.
I cannot change that, it's part of the culture, it annoyed me to no end, and my individual actions didn't matter at all while making my life harder.
It was much better for my life to emigrate, and live at a place where society is fundamentally more aligned to my values and ways of living.
by piva00
8/4/2026 at 6:24:28 AM
> I cannot change that, it's part of the culture, it annoyed me to no end, and my individual actions didn't matter at all while making my life harder.That's never true, countries changed extremely, also cultural-wise. If talking Germany the basic example is changing from a very militaristic society (far before the Nazis) to a rather pacifist society.
If talking corruption, my own country has progressively became far less corrupt over my lifetime
by breppp
8/4/2026 at 2:45:02 PM
> That's never true, countries changed extremely, also cultural-wise. If talking Germany the basic example is changing from a very militaristic society (far before the Nazis) to a rather pacifist society.After suffering a massive defeat, losing millions of lives, and being occupied for decades.
Otherwise culture changes slowly, I won't waste my lifetime to see 5-10% improvements, you are totally free to move to Brazil and fix it for us since it seems to be an easy task for you.
> If talking corruption, my own country has progressively became far less corrupt over my lifetime
In mine it only got worse, religious nuts like Evangelicals only accumulated more power over my life there, in my almost 30 years living there progress outside of economical terms got stuck.
Corruption is only one issue, violence is another major one, macho-culture and sexism is yet another, religiousness in the form of Evangelicalism with tele-pastors only grew to become >50% of the population.
It's an absolute fantasy that me staying there for my next 30-50 years of life would've made any difference. I only have one life, I won't waste it at a place where I always felt like a fish out of water with no power to change it. My life won't be dedicated to politics and power plays to the point where I could have any meaningful impact, I'm just a normal person trying to live a decent life, not an agent of change, lol.
You are completely invited to move there and change it though.
by piva00
8/4/2026 at 6:48:37 AM
> If talking Germany the basic example is changing from a very militaristic society (far before the Nazis) to a rather pacifist society.I seem to recall that this was not the result of Germans staying put and changing things for the better, but rather due to external forces reducing the majority of their country to rumble and and spending 2 decades reeducating them.
Not sure what "your country" is, but here in Germany that's the general consensus of Germany's progression to a "rather" pacifist society. You might want to take pacifist with a grain of salt though, considering how excited many Germans were about being able to deploy the Army for non defensive reasons in the Balkans, Afghanistan, etc. and how giddy everyone was that we were once again allowed to export arms to Ukraine. Not to mention the current rise of far right, xenophobic parties.
Fighting corruption is very difficult. A good way to go about it is to sent some of your young people to countries that don't have massive problems in order come back home viscerally convinced it's not a necessary evil you need to put up with.
by a2800276
8/4/2026 at 3:03:55 PM
> considering how excited many Germans were about being able to deploy the Army for non defensive reasons in the Balkans, Afghanistan, etc.Having lived at that time in Germany, I can tell you how excited many Germans rather were to openly name the responsible politicians "war criminals" (and would have been insanely happy if these politicians were brought before a war crimes tribunal) and the compatriot soldiers to participated in this campaign "murderers". I know this very well because I was among these people.
Even on the schoolyard there was a deep divide between the boys who were not completely rejecting the idea to do their (at that time near-compulsory) military service instead of considering at most doing alternative service as the only acceptable alternative, and those who did alternative service did then use every available opportunity to spread their opinion about wars and the military (they often had to work their alternative service in some welfare facility or retirement homes - places where you meet lots of people to whom you could tell your "soldiers are murderers" opinions).
by aleph_minus_one
8/4/2026 at 6:59:03 AM
The way I see it is the cultural change happened after the Prussian elites lost power and the general German public understood their recent history as far from the eternal victory they were promised. That's a major cultural change however you want to spin it, and there are enough examples in history where countries haven't gone through the same changes in similar situations (Weimar Republic also comes to mind)Regarding the current day pacifist state of Germany, in my mind it is still very drastic anti-militaristic compared to the vast majority of the world.
Regarding corruption, countries changed drastically during the 20th century due to ideologies and individual action, sometimes resulting in disaster but also often not. Trying to say nothing can change is a defeatist deterministic attitude that has no anchor in recent history.
Presuming we are talking about migration, most of these source countries were able to fight and win European colonization in the past, why do you think that's easier than fighting corruption?
by breppp
8/4/2026 at 7:29:02 AM
> Presuming we are talking about migration, most of these source countries were able to fight and win European colonization in the past, why do you think that's easier than fighting corruption?While I neither claimed "nothing can change" corruption nor that fighting corruption is more difficult than fighting European colonization, here are some arguments to your straw man:
Corruption is very insidious to combat because you don't have a clearly demarcated enemy to unite against. Corruption spreads through all layers of society and most people in deeply corrupt societies will be both victims and beneficiaries of corruption: you want your house built and saved up enough dough? Sure you grease the wheels a bit so you can start building right away. Also, your brother who's helping you finance the house is a civil servant and a good chunk of his income is a result of taking bribes. The government itself sees it as "tips" that justify lower wages, and you sure as shit don't want taxes to go up with all the baksheesh you need to hand out...
At best you're in a "glass house" scenarios, it's very difficult to break out of without a general amnesty and serious external pressure, because all the parties that are actually qualified to run a government (or similar corrupt organization) are implicated.
by a2800276
8/4/2026 at 7:48:07 AM
Yes, and the founding belief of corruption is that, "that's the way it works", "everybody does it", "this can never change".That essentialism is exactly the notion the poster I was replying to was echoing
Western countries were also corrupt at a time, bribery was common, yet things can change
by breppp
8/4/2026 at 7:33:23 AM
> The way I see it is the cultural change happened after the Prussian elites lost power and the general German public understood their recent history as far from the eternal victory they were promised.But the "Prussian elites lost power" because of the rise of the National Socialists who are universally not considered pacifist.
It might be a "major cultural change" but it was not affected by people staying at home and changing things for the better.
by a2800276
8/4/2026 at 7:22:57 AM
One will be long dead when a desired fundamental change finally completes. So any suggestion to stay and wait it out is plain disingenuous.by abcd_f
8/4/2026 at 7:43:52 AM
Why? Do you think a country is going to improve if anyone with potential like the OP would move to the West?I haven't suggested someone should wait it out, but the notion that nothing can ever change because it's "culture" sounds absurd to me and as an excuse to not try
by breppp
8/4/2026 at 2:54:25 PM
> I haven't suggested someone should wait it out, but the notion that nothing can ever change because it's "culture" sounds absurd to me and as an excuse to not tryI simply did not want to waste more of time by feeling powerless, I spent 10 years in civics organisations from 18-28 which didn't effect any change whatsoever even though we organised protests, education outreach for people to understand how government systems worked at each level for more conscious voting, one of my closest friends is a constitutional lawyer and helped to write motions to the state assembly.
Nothing of that ever helped anything, I wasted 10 years participating in civics for absolutely no gain. Much the contrary, I've been beaten by police, tear gas'ed, had a rubber bullet shot on my thigh (with a visible mark still there, 15 years later).
At some point you run out of steam, you are more than welcome to pick up the fight I gave up though.
by piva00
8/4/2026 at 6:19:10 AM
You are supposed to fixed the same way the first world countries fixed it, by staying there are improving things with the other people that want to improve things. Oh wait they all left for other countries, oops I guess people that couldn't leave get to stay and rot in unfixable corruption.by kmijyiyxfbklao
8/4/2026 at 2:38:23 PM
That's what happens when a culture is broken to the point of requiring generations of work to fix it: people who are unhappy will leave because there's no hope for enough to change to keep them there.How do you imagine that me staying in Brazil would have helped fixing major issues with corruption and violence? It's my life, I won't waste it living in a fantasy that as an individual I will have any meaningful impact on lowering corruption, homicides, robberies, so on and so forth.
I'm just a person trying to live a good life, my home country didn't provide it while I tried to live with my values, I decided to move on and had the privilege to be able to do so, of course I will take it.
by piva00
8/4/2026 at 2:50:33 PM
> I won't waste it living in a fantasy that as an individual I will have any meaningful impact on lowering corruption, homicides, robberies, so on and so forth.The difference is: Some people are willing incredibly hard to fight for this, even though it is obvious to them that they will have no meaningful impact. Shouldn't you rather be willing to fight magnitudes harder if you know that you will have no meaningful impact because:
- Realizing that you will have no meaningful impact rather makes you realize how important the fight is.
- When you know that you won't have any chance of a meaningful impact, you will much less held back by having any kind of mercy with any person that is part of the corrupt system.
by aleph_minus_one
8/4/2026 at 3:00:20 PM
Sure, if they are extremely passionate about it and make it their life's purpose they will keep fighting even against hugely unfavourable odds.I'm not one of those, I just commented somewhere else in this thread that I spent 10 years of my life engaged in political activities, from 18-28 (right before I moved out) I participated in organisations that tried to have some impact with nothing to show for it. It's not my passion to do that, I got tired, and there was nothing tethering me to that society after feeling like a fish out of water since I was a teenager.
In that case it's much better for my life to simply give up, I had my run while youth energy existed, nearing my 30s (which was more than a decade ago) I simply didn't want to waste more of my life swimming against the current.
I don't think many people understand how disheartening it is to run a civics education project for 2 years to try to educate people to vote better just to see they go to "church"* and vote on whomever their "pastor"* told them to.
* (Evangelicalism is not church for me, it's a money-grab scam to exploit poor desperate people)
by piva00
8/4/2026 at 7:38:48 AM
That is a bit silly. In any given country most who can leave choose to stay. Even in country with a very high per capita rate most people will stay. People will leave and return after a few years. Many people are better off in many ways staying. If you have capital it goes further in a poorer country. Your income might be lower in absoluter terms but low costs might mean you have a better lifestyle. Other people leaving might make your skills rarer, so you have well paid and secure employment. You might have connections. You may not want to leave family, friends and a familiar environment.by graemep
8/4/2026 at 6:30:20 AM
"More german than many germans" is a figure of speech in the German language and, even overlooking that "German" is not a race, I can't conceive of any German considering it racist, in any way derogatory let alone extreme misbehavior warranting expulsion.I can only imagine you are a troll, but in case you're not, I'm very sad you are not mature enough to realize the extreme privilege you received in the lottery of life by no effort of your own. Maybe it's time to move out of your parents' house, provide for yourself and change things for the better in your community, maybe travel a bit and generally learn to have some compassion and empathy for those less fortunate than yourself.
by a2800276
8/3/2026 at 11:12:05 AM
I kindly invite you to come and show me how to fix Bosnia and Herzegovina. I would love to go back and work at a decent company and have my family and friends (who are now scattered around the world) for afternoon and weekends. All it takes is a genious (like you!) to show up and fix things. Hopefully in an afternoon?by cicko
8/4/2026 at 7:23:45 AM
The GP was trolling.by abcd_f
8/3/2026 at 9:57:57 AM
I disagree with both your points. As an individual you have a very limited ability to change a whole country, and I see his saying as flowery exaggeration to make a point and not racist (he's not saying he's more deserving to be in Germany than Germans, but that he integrated into German society - isn't that what the AfD and their ilk say they want from us immigrants, that we "integrate"?).by ido
8/4/2026 at 7:30:05 AM
he didnt declare himself that, other germans declared him that...> Many Germans have told me I'm more German than many Germans
by zeratax
8/3/2026 at 11:13:56 AM
lol yeah maybe if Germany threw people out for an opinion like that I would consider leaving (native German). I neither view it as extreme nor as racist.by 47282847
8/4/2026 at 6:20:29 AM
You obviously are trolling. Your post starts with the very first sentence right wing extremists in germany bring on every boring conversation. It is a guarantor that an idiot is sitting in front of you and the conversation will end up doing nothing but burning ones braincells and energy.by maltris
8/3/2026 at 8:30:30 AM
"The grass is always greener on the other side ... until you actually dare to find out. "Definitely. I hated germany and after school the first thing I did, was to go away as far as possible. Good for getting perspective. There are things that work nicer elsewhere and things were we actually are pretty advanced.
by lukan
8/3/2026 at 9:10:00 AM
I had the same experience with my own country, Australia. I enjoyed moving to the Bay Area for work, and I treasure the couple years I lived there. But I also really enjoyed moving back to Australia again.I feel like it’s impossible to truly understand your home country unless you’ve spent enough time abroad to see it with fresh eyes.
by josephg
8/4/2026 at 5:57:45 AM
I think I'm going through the same experience with my home country (USA). It has all kinds of issues that have been discussed at length, and I thought when I left I might be leaving for good, but I think I'm going to be back there in a couple of years.I moved to a beautiful mountain town in New Zealand, and I know I'll treasure the time I spent here for the rest of my life, but I find myself missing America more and more.
by annzabelle
8/3/2026 at 9:16:00 AM
I think there are two aspects. First, quite obvious, everyday life and overall infrastructure is really good. It is clean, well maintained in most places. And there are only few countries where all open landscapes are yours to have. Germany is one big park. You have a small garden? No problem, every forest or unfenced meadow is yours to use and to enjoy. The other aspect, which makes people leave, is the direction in which things are going. It feels like things get a little worse every day. Bureaucracy was never easy in Germany, but since Covid, it feels like certain parts of it have mostly stopped working. All that while they add more taxes, more regulation all the time. This is what drives motivated people out.by geff82
8/3/2026 at 9:44:48 AM
"And there are only few countries where all open landscapes are yours to have."Well, I am into wild camping and here germany is definitely not so open. You have to be very well hidden.
by lukan
8/3/2026 at 10:20:54 AM
Come to Norway.by ninalanyon
8/4/2026 at 10:57:50 AM
Gladly every time I can manage.by lukan
8/4/2026 at 8:15:23 PM
I am one of those who left. Very happy where I am now. As some say, if you want to see all German stereotypes fulfilled, go to Switzerland!by mkrd
8/3/2026 at 9:36:02 AM
There are also circumstances and other factors that may be unknown to you when you move to a new place (your first flatmate, the city you move in, the company etc), or factors you did not choose or had little control of up to some age (the area you grew up, the people around you etc) that can affect one's experience. The article's author also talks about that.A person who moved to ostwestfalen or in a small town in eastern germany will probably not have the same experience as a person moving to hamburg (no offence to any of these places). A person moving as an intern to a relatively international environment will not have the same experience as a person who moves to a 100% german environment. It definitely matters how you act in your environment, but the environment restricts what you can get out of it as experience. Similarly, this applies to moving to any country, but also to where you were born.
Imo and ime people who do not get a good experience out of a country (the one they were born in or where they moved) is most of the times not about having unrealistic expectations of other places (they may have, but it is not the point) or they do something wrong, but due to a big chunk of factors and general character/compatibility issues that one has little control over, and may even be unaware of until that point. This holds for the "success stories" as much as the "failed" ones. It is hard to accept sometimes because having little/no control over stuff can be uncomfortable. The experience of different people can be different for things out of each one's control mostly.
In any case, getting different experiences in places out of where one was raised can always be helpful and help one grow.
by freehorse
8/4/2026 at 8:33:33 AM
> The grass is always greener on the other side ... until you actually dare to find out.Yes this is the core problem.
The grass used to be very green in the "first world" (North America and Western Europe) but it is now getting dangerously yellow.
Instead of asking themselves the hard question why the grass is getting yellow the people in charge try to prove it is fine by bringing cows (it is an image here) from the "the third world", and say look the grass is not getting yellow because those cows like it.
This is why you usually see the collapse of the rose-colored glasses effect in third generation of immigrants.
So yes the grass can still been seen as relatively green in Germany, but I have regularly traveled there for decades and I can tell you as an external observer the country looks like it is going to hell over time.
You get a similar effect with westerners going to East Asia. A lot of them like it very much there wearing rose-colored glasses and can't figure out why the locals believe the future is dark for them.
by sunshine-o
8/4/2026 at 4:52:09 PM
Uh, I think you’re misunderstanding.3rd gen immigrants aren’t impressed because they literally have no idea what it is like to live back in the ‘old country’.
Go back (to actually live there) and often those 3rd gen immigrants will definitely have a different perspective than they used too.
‘Native’s’ in 1st world countries often just don’t really understand the reality of the situation, and are the ones with the rose colored glasses.
Or do you think someone complaining about, say, the UK, will legitimately find things easier in India?
Because I’ve lived in Both; and nah dog.
The bigger issue here IMO is the fraying social contract and exposure to narcissistic manipulation due to social media and the ‘algorithm’.
It’s ragebaiting everyone about everything.
Combined with the bill ‘coming due’ for a lot of debt fueled overspending, and population collapse, of course.
by lazide
8/3/2026 at 8:21:53 AM
I think a lot of the complaining comes from high taxes, remembering the "good old times" and just from being German. Germans love to complain.I left Germany for a few years and came back. There are very few other places I could imagine to live in. Maybe Norway, Canada or Switzerland. I hope Germany gets its things together, the recent uprise of xenophobia and social polarization is concerning. I grew up in a Germany where it didn't matter where you came from or what you looked like.
by ovb39
8/3/2026 at 9:28:23 AM
Germany has been shifting wealth from middle class and lower class to the rich for a long time now and is at the forefront of inequality increase in Europe. All the xenophobia and polarization is happening for a reason. The people are no longer happy with their lives here. It is a result of decades of bad politicians and policies, bad election results, and mismanagement of the whole country and immigration and integration policies. Getting out shit together will require a massive mindset change, that personally I don't really see coming. We can forget all the mainstream parties like CDU, SPD, Greens, AFD, Left. They won't and don't want to bring us out of this situation. What they will do is continue the course of retiree pleasing policies, to catch tons of votes, while the rest of the country continues to go to shit.by zelphirkalt
8/4/2026 at 7:27:42 AM
Spoken like a true German. All goes to shit. All the time.by jk3000
8/3/2026 at 9:58:51 AM
[flagged]by roysting
8/3/2026 at 10:30:49 AM
I just copied the term from the parent post of my earlier post. In German I would have chosen "Auslaenderfeindlichkeit", which might fit a bit better. And yes, it can be irrational. I still do believe, that most people coming to Germany actually want to work for a better life. Just the problem being, that it is hard to make that happen, with Germany's failing integration and assimilation policies.by zelphirkalt
8/3/2026 at 2:19:39 PM
[flagged]by roysting
8/3/2026 at 10:43:01 AM
[flagged]by anal_reactor
8/3/2026 at 9:00:39 AM
I, a German, went to Switzerland for vacation once. I talked to a Swiss guy about how I like Switzerland and all that. I told him how impressed I was with how organized everything is and how well everything works. The train system and public transport in general is wonderful compared to the one we have in Germany, for example. To my surprise, he said something along the line of "yeah well, it only looks like that from the outside".Perhaps the tendency to complain is a necessity to achieve a high level of efficiency.
by mr_mitm
8/3/2026 at 9:17:10 AM
I moved from Sweden to Switzerland, and I don't know what that guy was talking about.Switzerland is an extremely well run country.
by Gud
8/4/2026 at 7:25:49 AM
I mean it helps that there's around 9M people living there, 1/10th of Germany or about the same amount as London or New York.Also helps to accumulate wealth by taking care of global blood-money and being a diplomatic hub :) and let's not forget the tons of gold we got gifted about a hundred years ago, sadly can't quite remember where we got that from.
by 4ggr0
8/4/2026 at 8:27:12 PM
It also helps that Switzerland has a decentralized and direct democratic system of governance.The rest is just noise.
by Gud
8/4/2026 at 8:37:13 AM
> Also helps to accumulate wealth by taking care of global blood-money and being a diplomatic hubPeople say that, but ETFs that invest into plain old boring sectors of Swiss industry give long term returns half way between USA AI insanity and everything else in the world. So they must be doing something right with their industrial economy as well.
by scotty79
8/4/2026 at 9:01:00 AM
we got some huge, international companies here. pharma, banks, insurance, food and beverages, resource trading and a more-or-less stable political system.https://companiesmarketcap.com/switzerland/largest-companies...
by 4ggr0
8/4/2026 at 9:35:44 AM
I suspect natives have a more nuanced view of their home country, compared to expats who end up getting a tinted view. At least it likely takes a long time for an outsider to truly understand how things work. Reading the newspapers isn't representative, you know...by lynx97
8/4/2026 at 10:43:16 AM
The natives have their own biases.by throw-the-towel
8/4/2026 at 12:09:56 AM
[dead]by shutyourhole
8/4/2026 at 10:08:21 AM
As southern European that has lived a couple of years in Switzerland and eventually moved into Germany, I always mention that from flexibility and rules point of view, being in Germany versus Switzerland, feels so much better in Germany.Sorry for the stereotypes, it was just how it felt dealing with everything, which is how everything gets to be so organised in first place, and the difference on similar matters in Germany, still I go back into Switzerland with some regularity.
by pjmlp
8/4/2026 at 7:44:42 PM
Swiss voted against tax reduction in the past. I do not know of that many countries, where people would have done that. So the way they think is a bit different.https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/poison-withholding-tax...
by ivell
8/3/2026 at 10:37:57 AM
Do you know, that by now Switzerland frequently refuses German trains to enter the country, because of delays? They don't want Deutsche Bahn mismanagement and delays to affect their own train network. Very reasonable to put a stop to this.by zelphirkalt
8/3/2026 at 5:37:04 PM
What they do is very interesting, though IMO "refuse to enter the country" sounds harsher than it actually is.If an inbound German train is late to Basel by more than 20 minutes, the Swiss run their own substitute train from Basel (they keep rolling stock on standby). The replacement train runs to the original timetable so that local passengers are unaffected. The late train is then pulled out of service at Basel (there are frequent onward connections).
They do something similar at Schaffhausen.
Trains that are late into St. Margrethen are made to queue behind local traffic.
by aix1
8/4/2026 at 7:23:00 AM
That sounds like an excellent solution for locals.But it also seems very inefficient because of the need to keep rolling stock in reserve, ready to go just in case. That’s a lot of maintenance, staff, and machine time to burn.
by a2tech
8/4/2026 at 3:53:51 PM
It was the locals who decided that it was worth the extra hassle and expense (and that doing the same thing at St. Margrethen wasn't).There was probably a referendum at some point. :)
I am not sure whether the stats are comparable, but I read somewhere that about half of Deutsche Bahn trains are late into Basel (and there are many trains a day). While I don't know this for a fact, it wouldn't surpise me if patterns of delays are relatively predictable and can be planned for.
There was some talk about just ending those routes at Basel at some far-away point in the future, but I'm not sure if that's something that's been decided.
by aix1
8/4/2026 at 3:10:12 PM
> But it also seems very inefficient because of the need to keep rolling stock in reserve, ready to go just in case. That’s a lot of maintenance, staff, and machine time to burn.Considering how often the Deutsche Bahn isn't on time (I say this as a German), the SBB should have use for this rolling stock nearly all the time - so it's rather efficient. :-)
by aleph_minus_one
8/3/2026 at 10:41:58 AM
Yesby mr_mitm
8/3/2026 at 9:13:43 PM
A normal sized plot with a house listed to be torn down on in outskirts of Zurich costs 7mil. A 2 bedroom apartment on the countryside costs 2mil. You will not pay this in a lifetime from 2 good level swiss salaries.by poisonborz
8/4/2026 at 2:35:44 AM
Are you Swiss? I'm no expert but from talking to Swiss people, their mortgage system is very different from the American one, and people are in no hurry to pay off their mortgages, and often they're never really paid off. Americans might find that appalling but the Swiss people I've spoken to find it normal. Tax incentives also help with this.by stephenhuey
8/4/2026 at 6:00:38 AM
It is the UK/Nordic system which I find morbidly bad. It already assumes you will never pay off the property and you pass it down to family and children, possibly multiple generations. It allows for property prices to go to the moon instead of incentivising for affordability. Makes for a system giving up owning property. How did we humans come to this.by poisonborz
8/4/2026 at 8:12:16 PM
Allowing financial system abstraction on one end, and allowing our brains to rot on the other.by DANmode
8/3/2026 at 11:20:10 AM
Swiss people often don't see how awesome swiss is themself except they have been away for a longer while to see how shitty every other place tends to be.Ex. Most people here think Europe is generally this clean. They never bothered looking out of their car in literally any other neighbor country.
Source: Austria living in Switzerland who also lived in Thailand, Malaysia, Czech, .. for a while.
by herbst
8/4/2026 at 8:52:23 AM
> I grew up in a Germany where it didn't matter where you came from or what you looked like.
by throwaway2037
8/3/2026 at 9:49:58 AM
[flagged]by roysting
8/3/2026 at 10:02:07 AM
as various people said following the Gesellschaft für Deutsche Kolonisation adventures abroad?by defrost
8/4/2026 at 2:46:39 AM
Just nitpicking on the "quarter of my life" point: being in my forties, I spent 3 of the 4 quarters of my life (so far) in 3 very different places in the world. The 4th quarter is a rounding error of those three. I don't think the fact of spending a quarter of one's life in one place actually says anything other than the fact that this place is livable enough.by ventana
8/4/2026 at 6:19:27 AM
Can you elaborate? I don't quite grasp what you mean. Do you mean that the first three quarters of your life were more formative/adventurous and the last quarter was more driven by inertia and routine? I can relate if so, just not sure if that's what you mean.by 55555
8/4/2026 at 7:49:53 AM
In my forty something years of life so far, a quarter is a little more than 10 years. I lived the first quarter + ε in one place during my childhood, then moved to a different city for the college and lived there for another quarter + ε, and I'm spending a quarter + ε in a completely different country. The sum of these three ε cover the remaining quarter.The fact that I spent a quarter of my life in three different places does not mean I'm forced to stay in any of these places for the rest of my life. I might as well move with my family and live in another place for some extended period of time.
by ventana
8/4/2026 at 10:07:33 AM
Are they different ε or the same?TBH, if using quarter here is just shorthand for "a decade", so it might be easier just to say plainly "I spent over a decade in each of A, B and C".
by ralferoo
8/4/2026 at 3:47:11 PM
Sure, I was just nitpicking on the phrase of the original comment that apparently put some extra weight on the fact that it was a quarter of life.by ventana
8/4/2026 at 9:18:43 AM
Just say thirds.by 9991
8/3/2026 at 12:32:42 PM
Well, same here. I hate living here to be sure because of the slowness and the way future looks bleak because of inability to change. But.... I am pretty sure I would hate living in other places even more. And the only reason I hate it here is because I see how good we have it here, and how much better it could be if we just got off our fear of change and actually tried to move with times.Also, Germany is one of the few countries where I have rarely been told to go back to my own country when I criticize something here, instead people say "Yeah, it is shit, but it is what it is eh?"
by whateverboat
8/3/2026 at 8:16:22 AM
I've found that the rule-following in Germany is way more consistent than in the country I grew up at in Latin America, plus people is much more willing to help you actually follow those rules. This helps reduce the amount of (bad) chaos in your daily life tremendously.by whstl
8/4/2026 at 12:10:27 AM
[dead]by shutyourhole
8/4/2026 at 10:47:33 AM
> people have no idea how good they have it here.Whenever I tell Germans that I'm Canada, they almost always respond with "Canada!? It's such a wonderful country, what are you doing here??" as if they couldn't possibly imagine what a Canadian might like about their country.
Sure, Canada's a great place, just like Germany. Also just like Germany it's far from perfect, and sometimes one is just after a different tradeoff.
by eigenspace
8/4/2026 at 11:19:58 AM
Perhaps you just hated shopping on a Sunday! Sunday is for doing absolutely nothing at all.by retired
8/4/2026 at 1:50:38 PM
Curious to get some perspective: How viable would starting a career in IT/Technology in Germany be as a mildly autistic American with an inability to learn foreign languages? I hear many opinions about this ranging from "English is commonly spoke, you'll be fine" to "You can visit but you will be unable to settle down due to xenophobia". The EU is incredibly appealing as someone highly dissatisfied with the trajectory of the US, and though I am aware many European countries are slowly following the same trajectory at least it'd give me a few more years of "this is fine".My family pre-immigration 150 years ago still exists in Germany and now appears to own a large road-construction concrete company. I wonder if that string is worth pulling.
by 100percentjake
8/4/2026 at 3:16:36 PM
> Curious to get some perspective: How viable would starting a career in IT/Technology in Germany be as a mildly autistic American with an inability to learn foreign languages?In my observation, in Germany the tolerance for the symptoms associated with mild autism is a little better than in the USA. On the other hand: if you aren't able to learn the German language fast: forget it.
Also be aware that starting a career in Germany is much harder than in the USA. On the other hand: once you are in, it is rather easy to stay in your job (in particular at a big company where there is a strong Betriebsrat (work council)) as long as you work somewhat dutifully and don't do anything really stupid. Just don't expect to move up the ladder (moving up the ladder or switching companies every few years is rather uncommon in Germany, so don't come with such an expectation).
> My family pre-immigration 150 years ago still exists in Germany and now appears to own a large road-construction concrete company. I wonder if that string is worth pulling.
This "I had ancestors in country X" seems to be a common sentiment among US-Americans. As a German I can really not understand how US-Americans get the idea that anybody in this country cares about that. If you really cared about the country, you would learn the language to a near-native level and get deeply into the country's culture.
by aleph_minus_one
8/4/2026 at 6:49:42 PM
Very fair. It is mostly just amusing to me to share an uncommon last name with the signage on an company's building.by 100percentjake
8/4/2026 at 1:57:38 PM
It seems unwise to go to a country without a plan to learn the language. If you are as unable to learn languages as you stated, then I suggest living in English speaking countries for lifeby ashtonshears
8/4/2026 at 6:51:47 PM
Unwise, sure, but there are precious few options for English native countries, particularly when my partner has a skin condition that makes persistent cold temperatures untenable.by 100percentjake
8/4/2026 at 2:34:34 PM
Learning the language is vital here. Most things are not in english but only in german. Every official letter you receive will be in german.Looking for an apartment? Better speak german with the landlord.
You may get through for a few years in an international city like Hamburg, Berlin, München if you find a job at an international company. But long term? Learn german or you will suffer.
by OoooooooO
8/4/2026 at 3:31:54 PM
> Every official letter you receive will be in german.Is that different in any other country?
Would you expect to be able to recieve them in spanish, while living in France?
There is also https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichte_Sprache , which many official websites provide, seems even to be mandatory for some services to have that option on offer.
by LargoLasskhyfv
8/4/2026 at 9:38:11 AM
> and some are even leaving the country (around 100k left last year)They have them in Spain, and they are retired. Do you want them back?
by Frieren
8/4/2026 at 11:22:21 AM
I’m living in Spain and for daily life I speak more German than Spanish. They are taking over.by retired
8/4/2026 at 8:17:58 AM
> In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality.I'm sure some of the more entrepreneurial minds will argue that many of those rules stifle innovation and progress. But also on a personal level, at least to this returning German, some of the rules seem silly at best and at worst cause some underlying sense of oppression. Why, e.g., is there a Meldegesetz/Meldeamt? I survived for 25+ years in California without such.
There are safety/freedom tradeoffs and whether they are worth it, everyone has to decide for themselves (at least Germans are granted the liberty to leave, if they don't like it). Many Germans long for a more adventurous life, but in the end most prefer to visit, rather than emigrate to, foreign shores.
by guenthert
8/4/2026 at 12:13:34 PM
One thing the Ortsamt/Meldeamt is good for, you don't have to register to vote. You get a note in your mail when there is an election. The note informs you about the date and where your designated polling station is located and it somewhat serves as your voting-ID at the station.by sh0gg0the
8/4/2026 at 8:56:33 AM
Yes, there are good rule and bad rules (and rules that were once reasonable but changes in technology or society rendered them suboptimal).As an immigrant to Germany, I wish the authorities would think more about the chilling effect every new rule has on activity (add another item to your to-do checklist, and less people are likely to even start). A prime example is trying to open a company in Germany vs some other countries (not even going as far as the US, it's enough to compare with Finland or the UK).
by ido
8/4/2026 at 4:52:21 PM
> As an immigrant to Germany, I wish the authorities would think more about the chilling effect every new rule has on activity (add another item to your to-do checklist, and less people are likely to even start). A prime example is trying to open a company in Germany vs some other countries (not even going as far as the US, it's enough to compare with Finland or the UK).Also many Germans think this way. They have just given up that the politicians will ever change that.
by aleph_minus_one
8/3/2026 at 9:58:25 AM
I'm living in Berlin for 13/45 of my life, but I don't think I will ever feel integrated. As much as I tried to get around and adapt to the local culture, I quickly found myself only connecting with non-Germans, most of them from Southern Europe, and on a smaller scale from Poland and the Balkans.by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 10:17:50 AM
> living in Berlin ... I don't think I will ever feel integrated.I’d understood this was a typical Berlin experience even for German.
by Beretta_Vexee
8/4/2026 at 8:56:08 AM
> I don't think I will ever feel integrated.
by throwaway2037
8/3/2026 at 10:06:23 AM
Would like to hear your thoughts on why that is the case.by bspinner
8/3/2026 at 10:57:37 AM
I was going to respond with "Protestantism", but then I realized that I also lived in the US for ~5 years and I had no problem to adapt there. Mind you, I wouldn't go back to live in the US unless you were paying me a lot of money to do so, but at least there I felt integrated.But honestly I don't have a better answer. Despite all my sincerest efforts, I never got the German idea of humor. I never understood their lack of flexibility in social settings. Their relationships with their family members (especially parents) is completely alien to me. I certainly don't like their "one-size-fits-all" for all sorts of socio-economic policies and how that translates to the EU. I am still annoyed by the fact that I can not find a way to go back to swimming in some structured capacity: it's either the overcrowded public pools or the "you need to be at competition-ready level to join a Schwimmverein". I find it weird that I've been living in the same building for 7 years and I know basically nothing about my neighbors - except the ones living under me who repeatedly complained about us being loud (we were not) and only stopped after taking us to court and losing the case.
by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 9:19:57 PM
> I never got the German idea of humor.A lot of foreigners say that. Actually mostly english speaking ones. I never heard a turk say this. Perhaps it's linked to the willingness to learn the language, which is often low with english-speaking people?
No idea, but back to the story: my answer to this "I don't get the humor" is: I don't get spanish humor.
And the simple reason is that I don't speak spanish good enough. I get SOME of the british & US humor. But only a bit ... my language skill, albeit perhaps ok if you look at it, is still not good enough to detect the subtle details. IMHO that is the reason why e.g. Mr Bean was easy to export: he doesn't talk :-)
In any case: to get the local humor, you MUST learn the language and even the culture quite good. Otherwise, you simply don't get it.
by holgerschurig
8/4/2026 at 7:14:05 AM
> I find it weird that I've been living in the same building for 7 years and I know basically nothing about my neighborsIsn't this just par for the course when living in dense settings?
I've been living in my current apartment for more than three years, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't recognize most of my neighbors if I randomly saw them in the street. We say hello when our paths cross coming and going, but that's it.
Many people come to the cities specifically looking to be more anonymous. You can't have that if everybody knows everybody.
by vladvasiliu
8/3/2026 at 11:16:07 AM
German culture is very functional, rigid, and dry, and it serves people with that kind of mindset very well. However, it clashes strongly with typical Southern cultures, so it is no surprise that the parent mentioned this. People who value the "softer" aspects of life are not going to feel at home.There are certainly exceptions, and YMMV.
by pizza234
8/3/2026 at 9:29:26 PM
The question is... what about the german culture do you know?Do you know the "functional" Brother Grimm's tales?
Or the "dry" humor of Dieter Hallervorden if you're a bit older? (okay, Christian Ehring from extra3 is perhaps really dry ...)
Do you know the rigid songs of, say Nena or Einstürzende Neubauten? Or is the music of BAP functional to you?
Are the books of Andreas Eschbach dry? Or the lyrics of Ingeborg Bachmann?
Maybe local customs like or the cologne "Karneval" are dry you then? These days we have CSD's all over the place. Maybe not original german culture, but perhaps the german adaption is too rigid?
Do you actually KNOW german culture? Have you been here in school, for example? My guess: you don't really know german culture, at least not so much that you found stuff in it that you enjoy. But you certainly miss your home culture. This is the culture where you were brought up, where you know the language, the norms, the taboos etc. And something else is then alien to you, not comforting. But you already adopted german directness to express this non-comforting state in harsh and ugly words :-)
by holgerschurig
8/3/2026 at 11:58:35 PM
It's not a matter of not knowing the language. I grew up in Brazil but studied in a German school from grades 6-12. I used to watch Deutsche Welle more than I'd watch canned US sitcoms on cable.I can understand a joke, and I can even (most of the times) understand the intention of the joke. But it doesn't mean that I find it funny.
As for "culture", I don't think we are using it in the same way. I mean in the sense of "expected norms and behaviors".
Let me give you one example: BBQ "culture". I really like to grill in the summer time and my birthday is in June. So I put these two together and made a tradition to have a BBQ party for my birthday.
Maybe you are not aware, but Brazilian BBQ is a multiple-hour event. It is not just a matter of cooking a pile of meat and getting stuffed, it is an opportunity to get the group together, socialize, and to slowly enjoy the food throughout the afternoon. Also, people can coordinate about the side-dishes all they want, but usually the host of the party "runs" the grill.
So, to get to the anecdote: one of my first birthdays here I invited a bunch of people to my place. I told them "Don't worry about the food or drinks. I got plenty for everyone."
Anyway, it was the time of the party and people started showing up. But remember what I said, this is an day-long event. By the time people started to arrive I had most of the things already set, appetizers on the table, drinks on the cooler. Everyone there (Italians, Turks, the Greeks, the Spanish, my Polish coworker) understood their "assignment": enjoy the moment and trust the host (me) that food would be coming along...
..except this one (German) friend of my (Italian) flatmate. The dude showed up one hour after the first group of people, all stressed about "being late" (he wasn't, it's a long party, there is no set time to arrive or leave), carrying a couple of "Nackensteaks" and asking whether he could "have some space on the grill to cook his food". I told him "hey, relax, there is some food over there and more meat is coming already, I can cook these steaks you brought afterwards".
He refused, he just wanted "his" steaks. No particular reason, just because he thought that was "his" share. I let him cook his steaks, he got some of the side dishes, sat down on the table by himself and had his lunch. Only then he decided to join the rest of the people in the party.
My flatmate just looked at me and said "they really don't get it...". I shrugged, and went back to the grill.
by rglullis
8/4/2026 at 8:30:23 AM
BBQ culture is different in different parts of the world - I experienced what you describe in Switzerland once (bring and grill your own food). Where I’m from, it’s bring your own booze but host is expected to provide all the food. Where my partner is from, you’re expected to bring either dessert or salad - but not booze or stuff for the grill. I think you’re reading too much into some fairly minor difference in etiquette. If you want to experience real culture-shock, try using a sauna in a German-speaking country…by derriz
8/4/2026 at 9:59:47 AM
Oh, it's not a "culture shock" kind of thing. I actually had no issue whatsoever going to a Sauna or even going swimming on the FKK hours. Like I said, I studied in a German school so I kinda knew these things are just a natural part of German life.And it's not like I was "bothered" by him bringing his own food or wanting to cook it. It just seemed the guy was completely missing the point by being too focused on the "meal".
I just want to give one example of what I meant by "cultural differences", not that this one story cemented my opinion of Germans. Somewhat like trying to explain to an Italian that the North American idea of "getting coffee" means grabbing a Starbucks and walk around - or worse, driving to get it on a drive-through.
by rglullis
8/4/2026 at 7:11:40 AM
Being German who lived in other parts of the world myself, and someone who likes food and considers the typical German BBQ an abomination I can feel your pain.But is this not more of an example of you wanting to do things the Brazillian way rather than German's unwillingness for you to integrate? At any rate, the Nackensteak guy is a total dick!
Also don't forget, a lot of those Italian, Turk, Greek, Spanish and Polish coworkers may well be Germans...
by a2800276
8/3/2026 at 12:29:53 PM
That's a pithy description of it all. If I hadn't met my (Greek) wife in 2015, I've probably would have left long ago.And to come of think of it, I think there is another aspect that influences this: Germans are not having as many kids as the immigrants, so the overwhelming majority of the kids in the kitas and schools are from immigrant families or immigrant/native mixed parents. This means that (at this stage in life) any new friends you get to make are likely through your kids, and even there the pool is selected against Germans.
by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 1:22:07 PM
That's a very Berlin-centric observation. Berlin is special; it's hard to extrapolate to the rest of the country.by sveme
8/3/2026 at 2:06:15 PM
Maybe, but a quick AI-assisted research says that Bremen has an even higher rate of births from non-German mothers than Berlin, and the data does not make the distinction between citizenship and immigration status.by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 2:40:20 PM
What do you mean with „Germans“? In my friends group, in my son‘s football club, in school, most kids have a so called migration background, but the parents are mostly second generation and mostly assimilated. So what?by sveme
8/3/2026 at 2:55:53 PM
If we split between second-generation (i.e, both parents born in Germany) as "native" and everyone else (i.e, anyone with at least one parent not born in Germany) as "immigrants", I'd guess that number would skew heavily towards "immigrants" in all major cities. I could be wrong, but I haven't found a way to reliably check the data.by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 3:48:08 PM
Doubtful, honestly, though from what you described with Berlin, this feels like more of a problem of Berlin being a very transient city. A lot of people never fully settling there, especially so called expats, despite living there for decades. A lot of people being part of the cosmopolity, moving from one hype city, one startup, to the other. That’s okay, but it doesn’t work for everyone.by sveme
8/3/2026 at 4:03:55 PM
Your view of current immigrants is not that different from the Germans in the 70s who thought that the Turks and Vietnamese looking for jobs in Germany would go back to their homes after a while. Some of them did, but enough of them stayed to become a substantial part of the population.Anyway, like I said there is a good chance I am wrong about it Germany in general. But I'd argue that in Berlin that is pretty much the case, regardless of how large the "transient" people are compared to "longer-term settlers". Once people start having kids they stop hopping around, so I'd guess that the amount of "non-native" children that dominate the schools have immigrant parents who are mostly settled.
by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 5:27:19 PM
Not the OP but to give you an example. Spines on books in German are written one way along the spine. While generally in English books it's the other way round.https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1n5booe/do_all_ger...
Both have their trade-offs and most cultures are chill about it, but a lot of Germans will swear by the way it is done in Germany being the logical method. It is a vrry homogenizing culture that way.
It also goes for most things in life like sentence case vs title case for headings. Pairing of flavors in dishes (although that is changing).
All in all, it gives you the idea of "there's a german way to do things which is the correct way, please adjust."
To be clear, there are some German ways which I think have much more far reaching consequences, and one about should argue about them, like attitude toward labor laws or LGBT stance. (And whichever way you feel about it, you can agree that the stance has far reaching consequences). And Germans will club all of the different level of seriousness together at the same level with whether you have a accent in your German, for example, when considering how integrated you are.
And that is incredibly frustrating and makes one feel left out. And it is not just immigrants. I know people who moved from Hamburg to Erlangen who felt more left out than me who moved from India to Erlangen (mostly because I had a German girlfriend at that point.)
by alphabeta3r56
8/4/2026 at 9:59:34 AM
what are you talking about bro, I think you're really getting carried away here. Nobody cares about the direction of writing on the spine of a book. And your thing with sentence vs title case doesn't make sense because German doesn't even have that distinction.by magimas
8/4/2026 at 11:25:16 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/s/kUJllIkqFsby alphabeta3r56
8/3/2026 at 10:19:14 AM
I'm also a foreigner in Berlin, and my guess is twofold:1. Their German isn't good enough, which limits the pool of people you can connect to
2. They only or mostly hang out in the expat-scene, which limits the pool of people you can connect to
by akie
8/3/2026 at 11:07:17 AM
no, it's the Berlin experience, even for many Germans1. speaking German doesn't matter too much in Berlin, except older "Berlin Berlins" most people speak conversational English. I have even seen cases of _all_ personal in a caffe not speaking German..., more then once.
2. Over half the people in Berlin are "expat-like": ~20% of people in Berlin are not from Germany, 30-40% or so are not from Berlin and only there fro some years/decades to study or similar. And the distribution isn't uniform across Berlins, i.e. the areas you are most likely to end up as an (actual) expat (or similar) are the ones with way higher ratios. Like if you connect someone in such a area (weather physical or area-of-life) it's actually surprising if that person if "from" Berlin. Like you as a person "from" Berlin are more a special case then idk. someone from Poland ;).
by dathinab
8/3/2026 at 11:19:54 AM
> 1. speaking German doesn't matter too much in Berlin, except older "Berlin Berlins" most people speak conversational EnglishThis depends on the context: it doesn't matter to speak German in the stage of life where one doesn't interface with the administration (and therefore, older generations). But for those who settle, and are past that stage, German is a requirement.
by pizza234
8/3/2026 at 1:03:06 PM
> German is a requirement.should be,
but de-facto isn't, like seriously you can live decades in Berlin without learning German. As a German I could fully stop understanding German from tomorrow on and in any situation except my parents it would work out, with only very limited issues here and there. Most which normally solvable with camera based translation apps (e.g. Google Lense), and some other by deciding which part of Berlin I spend my time in.
and legally it's only required if you try to get a German pass
by dathinab
8/3/2026 at 11:02:29 AM
1) I am certified C1 German - studied in high school for 6 years. Granted, I don't like speaking German and will use English when possible, but it's not a matter of not being able to connect with them.2) Shortly after moving in, I started dating a German woman. Lasted close to a whole year. That was more than enough time to meet a lot of her friends, I got to meet her family, etc. That was more than enough time and opportunities to get a good insight into "native German" lifestyle, culture and values.
Want to try again?
by rglullis
8/4/2026 at 9:00:35 AM
> Granted, I don't like speaking German and will use English when possible, but it's not a matter of not being able to connect with them.
by throwaway2037
8/4/2026 at 10:08:19 AM
Because I have not been able to convince my wife to move to Greece.Also, the fact that I am not integrated does not mean that I am unhappy here.
by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 1:19:21 PM
wowow C1 and dated a German? Sorry, you are basically a nativeby platybubsy
8/3/2026 at 1:20:06 PM
You take that back, right now!by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 1:36:21 PM
You don’t know Germany, you know Berlin.You don’t have insight into German lifestyle, you have insight into that one woman’s family’s lifestyle (and only less than a year, you’re not a family member at that point).
by eska
8/3/2026 at 2:09:00 PM
I'm not claiming that I know all of Germany or all Germans, I am just refuting GP's guesses.Also, she wasn't the only German that I've met and it wasn't the case that I only met native Germans through her personal network. I also worked at Deutsche Telekom and Mercedes Benz. I've had the opportunity to interact with lots of people outside of the work environment.
by rglullis
8/3/2026 at 10:50:55 AM
I have been living in Berlin since my birth and your experience is one _many Germans have in Berlin, too_. Berlin is it's own thing, both in good and bad, I would not treat it as representative for Germany at all.1. Berlin is the _least_ German Germany city, by far.
2. around ~20% of people living in Berlin aren't from Germany, I can't find the numbers but I think another 30-40% where not born in Berlin and likely won't stay more then 10-20 years. So _most people in Berlin are there temporary_, with people constantly moving in and out.
2.2. and the distribution of people long term living in Berlin and such being there temporary for studies, party, work, etc. isn't even across Berlin. In some areas you might mostly find people not "from" Berlin. To a point when meeting people in Berlin they sometimes are quite surprised if someone actually is from Berlin and not just lives there "for now"...
2.3. and in some parts of the city a non small part of "Berlins" born here are have parents or grandparents from Turkey which moved here in the 60th.
3. Berlin has a lot of sub-culturs which can be grate and fun, but also a common background rule is "you do what you want and I want I want" this can be really grate, or terrible as (not sure how to say it) the background social network which tends to integrate people into a local society is somewhat absence. Or to put it differently a lot (but not all) of people don't care about you, they won't harass you for being different, but they won't help you either if you don't happen to be a close friend. On the other hand in many other parts of Germany people are more strict about "you somewhat fitting in" but in turn if you try might also help you in the most unexpected ways (as I said I'm not sure how to best express this, this point is starkly oversimplified and can be misread in a lot of ways).
4. through Berlin has _a lot_ of different faces, some even people living there for decades might not have seen. So if you are in the right corner/community 3rd might not apply to you at all. Trying to describe Berlin in one way is a bit like pretending all of Germany is Bavaria.
5. Berlin is a swamp. Not just because the name might be based on birl~„Sumpf“ in some partially lost old languages. Or because some parts have frequently ~80+% Air Humidity (in fall/spring/warmer winter days; at ground level). Or because of it being the political centrum and as such associated with all the non Bavaria specific political corruption. But also because people "become marshy" (not good translation) here. I.e. they come here and then slowly and continuously slow down and get stuck here, never really arriving, but also not getting forward or backward.
Now this isn't complete and more focused on the bad parts, Berlin can also be grate, for a large city it's extremely green, most side streets and many main streets have road side trees and there are ~2000 additional "green areas" (like e.g. parks, but some very very small). There are tons of places to enjoy the evening in all kinds of ways, ton's of culture from clubs to theater, opera and shows. A lot of history. A lot of sub-cultures of all kind etc. But also it is just green (not flowery), you might not care about most culture things and just because there are many sub-cutlures doesn't mean it's something for you or you manage to connect to them. Also it's kinda dirty and this has gotten worse thanks multiple factors including the current city Government cutting costs in the wrong places...
Eh, anyway, my recommendation is:
- If you want to experience Berlin go to Berlin, if you want to party/enjoy evening non stop for a few years also go to Berlin, same for students where a Uni here matches their goals nicely. But if you want to experience Germany, then don't come here.
- If your life is stuck in Berlin (no matter if you are German or not) seriously consider leaving, for some people Berlin is long term poison which slowly eats away their happiness. There is a reason a large part of people in Berlin only stay there for a few decades at most.
- Don't expect to meet Berlins is Berlin (it's less then half the population in some regions way less). And in some areas of life don't even expect to meet/connect to that many "typical" Germans.
by dathinab
8/3/2026 at 2:20:54 PM
"Berlin is the _least_ German Germany city, by far."Isn't that a common complaint in the lot of countries - people complain about London in the UK in a very similar fashion?
by arethuza
8/3/2026 at 6:38:23 PM
It's a very common complaint in countries where one city is disproportionately dominant (London for the UK or Dublin for Ireland, say). It's arguably a bit more surprising for Berlin, because Berlin isn't so disproportionately huge (Berlin's metro area is 6 million out of 80 million, versus London's 15 million out of 70 million or Dublin's 2 million out of 5 million), and because Germany has other comparably sized cities (Hamburg's metro area population is about 5 million). You'd expect it to be a bit less of its own place just on that basis.by rsynnott
8/3/2026 at 8:20:12 PM
Nah, there is a very strong reason to support the "Berlin ist eine Insel" saying. Are you forgetting the fact that Berlin was literally isolated from the rest of Western Germany and controlled by 4 other countries until some decades ago?by rglullis
8/4/2026 at 2:05:44 AM
Let's not forget East Berlin with its 1.2 million population and as the capital of the DDR that was very nicely integrated into the DDR. While both parts of Berlin were obviously isolated from the BDR, West Berlin was supervised by 3 countries. Just to avoid any misunderstanding by people who were not able to visit both parts during those historical times.by District5524
8/3/2026 at 3:54:58 PM
Yeah, "Moscow ain't Russia" is an idiom.by throw-the-towel
8/4/2026 at 11:59:42 AM
IDK if it's a complaint about London per se, but it's definitely not typical of much of England.And yes, you can say the same about e.g. Amsterdam vs. The Netherlands. And others.
But also, neither of them were literally isolated like West Berlin.
by SideburnsOfDoom
8/3/2026 at 11:32:09 AM
I think the main problem is to see Berlin as a city. Even the official city is more a bunch of divided, but connected middle-sized cities. For example, the City Berlin has ~3.7 Million citizens, which is nearly double the size of the next biggest cities (Hamburg 1.8 Million, Munich 1.5 Million). And the region Berlin even has 4.7-6.3 Million, depending on which parts you add. Half of the German states have fewer citizens.> 2. around ~20% of people living in Berlin aren't from Germany,
Notable part here: that's not even the highest amount in Germany. There are many cities with similar or higher numbers. But to be fair, depending on the region, there are likely many people from neighbouring countries which will have less problems with integration because of their shared cultural background. Berlin is for historical and political reasons a big melting pot of different cultures. It's not the only one, but a bit different because of it's size.
by PurpleRamen
8/3/2026 at 11:06:33 AM
> a lot of German natives complain and some are even leaving the country (around 100k left last year)It's actually 300k, but 200k also returned. The "funny" part is, there is even a long-running TV-show (20th season this year) about people leaving the country, not sure if other countries have something similar. But realistically, expats seems like a common phenomenon in rich countries. Some people just seek the adventure.
by PurpleRamen
8/3/2026 at 11:13:22 AM
I also like watching the Austrian (actually a tip if you know German, check ATV) and the swiss edition. Pretty sure swiss has at least a German and a French one, maybe even another one. So yeah, there is that.by herbst
8/3/2026 at 9:18:01 AM
Yes, if one compares in the downward direction of living standards, there are many countries doing worse, no doubt. It is also a fact however, that we massively neglect our education system, and have good grades inflation in many places. Record numbers of 1.0 (best grade) students, while secondary schools ("Gymnasiums") and universities complain about the quality of students, despite their grades, with the gap widening.And the education system is not the only thing that is down in the drain and worsening. Take Deutsche Bahn for example. Its management levels paid themselves millions in boni, while at the same time the infrastructure is kept at a minimum repair and renew level. Literally every time I take a high speed train (ICE) it is hours late, so much so, that I am even discouraged visiting people, because I already am traumatized from trains being late and spending the whole day on trains, when I should only need 4h. Infrastructure inside cities is also in many places waaay behind what it could be and already is in many other countries, while being hopelessly expensive to use. Countries with much fewer people and GDP have managed to build better and more affordable infrastructure in their capitols. Check out Madrid for example. Metro there is great, and comparatively cheap to use.
The job market situation is really bad currently as well. Even highly skilled people cannot get a job now. Unemployment benefits have been massively reduced lately. The people who do get a job or have one face stagnation in salary, while there is inflation, and this has been going on for a decade or so. Purchasing power of the people is diminishing. Groceries and staples are getting more expensive. In short, most people's economic situation is worsening.
For young people it is almost impossible now to buy a house in many places. What our parents could afford and realistically pay back in loans has become a distant dream for the current generation. Only with 2 solid and good incomes one might dare it in some more rural area perhaps.
The point is that our living standards are decreasing, due to the global economy situation and mostly due to massive mismanagement of the reality in politics, corruption, money pocketing. Soon we are at real risk to lose even democracy.
Digitization is also lagging way behind. The stereotype is, that we still use fax. Well, it's not too far off.
Do we have it better than people in many other places? Still yes. But there are also countries now laughing about us and our stupidity, who have managed to overtake us, or maybe I should say we have managed to fall behind them. It is really no wonder skilled people are leaving Germany left and right, front and back, when they are much better paid elsewhere. Now people, who originally came from Poland to Germany, due to better living and better prospects, are returning to Poland Warsaw.
by zelphirkalt
8/3/2026 at 9:49:49 PM
> And the education system is not the only thing that is down in the drain and worsening.Which is simply wrong --- or at least only true if you look at only part of the education system.
But in Germany, there is also an education system to become Geselle, Meister, Techniker, Fachwirt --- things that many other countries don't have. And somehow people always ignore that.
And the Deutsche Bahn ... perhaps not the shining example. But ... look at France. They hardly have trains, e.g. there are small towns that only have 8 trains a day. To go by TGV from Bordeaux to Lyon you must pass Paris, hundreds of kilometers depart. It's like going from Kassel to Hamburg must go via Berlin. Also, the trains in UK are bad. And some countries, like Spain, or Greece, also hardly have tracks AND trains. While here, we actually tracks "everywhere" and even a bit too many trains, therefore the delay. But you can reach your destination, while in other countries there's no way. 5 weeks ago I went with ICE from Kassel to Regensburg --- for a mere 26 EUR (one way) because I booked in advance. Where else do you get that?
Employment situation bad... and yet there are some groups that constantly look to employ you. Every Aldi, Lidl has posters looking for people. The Bahn searches train drivers. Lot of transportation companies look for lorry drivers. The unemployment rate of Germany is at 3.9% -- only 7 EU countries better than us. Our 3.9% is e.g. better than the US. Did the situation get worse the last 3 years? Sure. But why? I'd point to Putin and Trump and some Mullahs (end of cheap gas, nonsensical customs, havoc in the straits of Hormuz).
Purchasing power wise Germany is at location 8 in the EU.
But hey, the typical complaining german gives to me the impression as if we're still the "Herrenrasse". We must always #1. As soon we're not #1 the end is nigh :-) Place 7 of 27 is totally bad, apparently.
However, if you select something in isolation, and then compare ONLY to the best, then you will always find that you're lacking. You had a 2 in english .. but there was this guy that had a 1 (in Germany that is better). You had a 2 in physics, but this lady had a 1. You had a 2 in sports, but again there was someone with a 1. And so on. And suddenly you think that you're the last of the students, because always there is someone better than you.
No, you must look at ALL the candidates, not just at those that are better. Compare the Bahn not just with Switzerland. Compare it with UK, France, Greece, Estonia Or ... heck, even the passenger railways system of the USA which sucks bollocks.
by holgerschurig
8/4/2026 at 10:14:39 AM
We have a similar system in Portugal for Ausbildung (Técnico Professional), I wished more folks would pay attention to it, as it also suffers from the same problem that everyone just wants to go to the university instead.Trains are great and the network covers most of the country, not like in Portugal that is only the costal cities and a few lucky ones on the countryside, however in the 20+ years I lived here, they have certainly been through better times.
by pjmlp
8/4/2026 at 12:37:30 PM
> But in Germany, there is also an education system to become Geselle, Meister, Techniker, Fachwirt --- things that many other countries don't have. And somehow people always ignore that.Why do you think I was ignoring that?
The reality is, that here almost everyone thinks that they must go to university. Their parents also tell them that, because of increased requirements that businesses put up as lowest bars. Parents become helicopter parents and will try to make your life difficult, if you give their very extremely specially gifted child a bad grade. Teachers are no longer as respected by the parents, as they were in the past, and are way too soft on the grading. Good grade inflation is the result, even when the children/pupils do not actually achieve good results. Ridiculous things like some secondary schools only accepting 1.0 graded pupils in Berlin happen. When I went to school, in my whole city there were perhaps 10 pupils with a 1.0 grade (mean of all subjects) per year. You could definitely not run a school with that as source material.
At the next level, at the universities, they are also complaining about the students coming with inflated grades from secondary schools. German universities are considering establishing entrance exams and are at risk losing their international status, by accepting too many not great students. Quality of university education suffers.
On the other hand we have the small businesses, which teach the trades, which complain loudly, that they don't get qualified people to teach. If almost everyone can go to university, even if only for some MBA, then this is what we get. Those businesses teaching the trades (ausbildende Betriebe, Ausbildungsbetriebe) are complaining about very basic skills like language skills, reading understanding, focusing on something, simple calculation, etc., that they find lacking in the people they are supposed to teach. These problems also extend to immigrants, who simply haven't had a proper chance to learn the language, or come with completely different educational background.
If you ask me, we should only welcome as many people, as we can offer proper language courses and other required courses to, so that people who come here have an actual future, and don't simply disappear in subcultures. I want people who come here to have a good future, by being part of society and by having stable jobs, adding to our society as a whole. If they can't have jobs, then coming here will only result in more strain on our already severely strained social net. Figuratively speaking, a massive amount of effort is needed to pull that cart out of the mud. Years and years of mismanaged immigration to fix.
> And the Deutsche Bahn ... perhaps not the shining example. But ... look at France. They hardly have trains, e.g. there are small towns that only have 8 trains a day. To go by TGV from Bordeaux to Lyon you must pass Paris, hundreds of kilometers depart. It's like going from Kassel to Hamburg must go via Berlin. Also, the trains in UK are bad. And some countries, like Spain, or Greece, also hardly have tracks AND trains. While here, we actually tracks "everywhere" and even a bit too many trains, therefore the delay. But you can reach your destination, while in other countries there's no way.
You got a point in that we still have something that is more than elsewhere, granted. But the criticism is about how much worse it has become, compared to what we already had decades ago. Colossal mismanagement of a public good. Germany (everyone involved in managing DB and current and past governments) does seemingly not understand, how important a working public infrastructure is, for a country to prosper. They only see Q1,2,3,4 numbers. Worsening infrastructure is not something that makes a country attractive. Qualified people will consider moving elsewhere. People cannot rely on DB to get to and fro their job office, or will simply be late every now and then. Living in a neighbor town becomes infeasible, due to unreliability of DB. We are basically working on getting everyone to drive their own 4 person city tank (that disease also has caught on here...) alone, to and from their work place.
> 5 weeks ago I went with ICE from Kassel to Regensburg --- for a mere 26 EUR (one way) because I booked in advance. Where else do you get that?
I got a last minute ticket from Berlin to Kassel recently for 22 EUR, also one way. But the issue is not only the pricing. The issue is the non-existent reliability. A trip that should have taken 2h53min took 4h37min, because of delays and the train already starting with 14min delay in Berlin. On my way back I was not so lucky to get a last minute ticket, and chose to take regional trains, which took me 8h+.
But to answer the question where else one gets that: In China, eaaaasily. Of course salaries are different there, no question, but for some 15 EUR I can travel through half of China, in approximately the same time, that I need in Germany, to cross half of Germany, and the train will be at the station on point, not starting 14min late. It will usually halt at the station with the carriages exactly aligned at the numbered markers at the station. I won't have to run all the way to the other end of the train. I won't have to hurry up and down some stairs, because of some last minute notice, that the train arrives at another track today, which then is corrected back again, causing me to run back to the original friggin track. That's just stuff that happens with Deutsche Bahn for some reason.
> But hey, the typical complaining german gives to me the impression as if we're still the "Herrenrasse". We must always #1. As soon we're not #1 the end is nigh :-) Place 7 of 27 is totally bad, apparently.
Well, #1 is the goal, obviously. Why should Germany not try to be the best? It is silly to not aim high in that regard. We should very much look at Japan (train sevice, making use of cultural goods, attracting visitors), South Korea (Internet, everyday convenience), and China (infrastructure, modern cities, getting construction projects done) and ask ourselves, what is going wrong here. The problem is not necessarily that we are not currently #1, but that things are decaying and we are falling in many rankings:
Education (falling in international comparisons, especially severe)
Train service (only gotten worse in the last decade, redefinitions of what is "too late" don't help)
Cost of living (has increased a lot, including groceries)
Wealth of young people (countries inside the EU, of which one might not think so, have higher average wealth of young people than Germany, for example Spain and Italy)
by zelphirkalt
8/3/2026 at 11:09:09 AM
It is because of you guys, who love rules so much, that the poor Germans get such a bad reputation. ;)by cicko
8/4/2026 at 8:19:03 AM
> rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality.They most assuredly do not ensure equality, which is exactly why there is such a push to eliminate standardized tests from college entrance criteria:
The Time Is Now: Eliminating the LSAT for the Sake of Diversity - https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2023/03/09/the-time-is...
ABA votes to end law schools' LSAT requirement, but not until 2025 - https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/aba-votes-end-la...
Universities Dropping Admission Tests Experience Boost in Student Diversity - https://scienmag.com/universities-dropping-admission-tests-e...
Eliminating Standardized Tests To Achieve Racial Equity In Post-Affirmative Action College Admissions - https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaunharper/2023/07/09/eliminat...
by like_any_other
8/3/2026 at 10:26:51 AM
I think it depends on the job one has. Working as senior software engineer for international companies? Any western european country is nice and all. Top p90 salary. English only needed. Working as a bank cashier? Well, then you will notice the difference between let say Germany and Portugal. Low salary. Need proficiency in the local language, etc.by sdevonoes
8/3/2026 at 2:27:47 PM
Easier said than done, but don't let the racists take your enjoyment of being here or anywhere in the world, for that fact.by 7bit
8/3/2026 at 9:47:04 AM
[flagged]by roysting
8/3/2026 at 9:59:31 AM
low wages and high rents are our greatest strength, citizen. $your_country has always been a melting pot. drink your corn syrup.by vlyan
8/3/2026 at 2:34:11 PM
[flagged]by roysting
8/4/2026 at 11:07:21 AM
You can take a guess _why_ it was so easy for you to come here with nothing and who pays for that.by tsss
8/4/2026 at 1:14:07 PM
Could you elaborate? Who pays for what exactly?I am kinda triggered by that comment because you make it look like it's easy or inexpensive. It's not.
I also came to Germany with just a suitcase and a backpack. I paid for my tickets, paid for mandatory health insurance that covered timeframe before I started my job, paid my rent, paid government for processing/issuing my residence permit, etc. I've paid taxes and health insurance every single month since then, haven't used any unemployment benefits once, took a single sick leave.
You might argue that I "stole a job", "worsened housing crisis", or something along these lines. But there are plenty of data points that disprove majority of such arguments.
by StrLght