alt.hn

7/28/2026 at 7:06:10 PM

Donate to GrapheneOS

 https://grapheneos.org/donate

by charliebwrites

7/28/2026 at 7:49:02 PM

Also, gonna post the crowdfunding link for Samuel Tunick, the American protestor facing federal charges for allegedly giving a DHS officer a GrapheneOS duress password:

https://www.givesendgo.com/letsamgo

It's important he beats his charges to prevent setting an unfavorable precedent for digital privacy rights.

by tomatopepper

7/28/2026 at 7:41:17 PM

I got a Pixel 10 during prime day and installed GrapheneOS with Cape for the provider. So far, it's been mostly great. The only setback, for me, is the lack of support for tap to pay. I haven't been able to get any wallet app to work. I keep my iphone with minimal service mainly to still have tap to pay and do facetime with my book club.

by imzadi

7/28/2026 at 7:52:31 PM

I've tried two things. The free version is, I've stuck a card which supports tap to pay inside my phone case. Big brain time, I know, but it actually works reasonably well. Many modern card phone cases now put shielding in (they didn't used to), which on one level I appreciate, but it limits its utility in this particular use case. I haven't tried one of the current cases to see if the shielding can be easily removed. A thin, flat card with etched/printed numbers is better than one with stamped/raised numbers.

Beyond that, I've been quite happy with Garmin Pay. The watch itself doesn't have a mic or LTE radio, I leave it on airplane mode the vast majority of the time, and it works without the phone nearby. As privacy-hostile-device privacy policies go, Garmin has one of the less offensive ones. I run the Garmin apps in the Owner profile's private space.

I've never had it not work for payment in years of using it, and in fact, at one one payment kiosk I tried to use Apple Pay for a particular large purchase when it made sense to, the kiosk refused repeatedly, but then accepted Garmin Pay.

Their lowest-end devices still don't support it, but I think you can get into it for an MSRP of about $250, and they tend to discount at all of the predictable times. Also, eBay.

Re: FaceTime, there's a way to do it from Android if you're invited (I don't think you can initiate it), but I haven't messed with it in years. See if you can get a good privacy book for normies on the agenda and suggest moving to Signal during the discussion.

by handedness

7/28/2026 at 8:11:25 PM

I have a Garmin watch, but my banks don't support it for tap to pay. I can add cards to Garmin wallet, but not to my watch.

by imzadi

7/28/2026 at 8:17:24 PM

That's a shame. Have you tried raising it with them at some significant level?

For any others wondering, here's the list of participating banks: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/garminpay/banks/

by handedness

7/28/2026 at 10:51:35 PM

I switch between an iPhone and a GrapheneOS phone. I have a garmin watch and never thought to use it for tap to pay. I’m dumb. Setting this up this evening

by ramgine

7/28/2026 at 9:24:07 PM

I got a new Pixel 10 Pro a few months ago and immediately installed GrapheneOS. It's all been good, but I can no longer use Strava on that phone and I'm looking for a Strava replacement.

As far as tap-to-pay goes, I still carry around a few credit cards with RFID chips, which I trust more than any mobile payment method.

by anonymousiam

7/28/2026 at 10:14:46 PM

I used to use OpenTracks to record, then upload to Strava API with an app called HTTP Shortcuts. But now Strava wants me to pay to use their API lol.

by mendelmaleh

7/28/2026 at 7:50:41 PM

If you use a case you could put a card behind your phone. I still use google wallet for various cards, just not tap-to-pay.

by jp191919

7/28/2026 at 8:23:49 PM

place your debit card on the backside of your phone via a case pocket. a lot of cards these days support tap to pay.

by rambojohnson

7/28/2026 at 8:01:04 PM

I have a Pixel 7 Pro and I've been considering reflashing with GrapheneOS. I bought a Garmin watch which does tap-to-pay to deal with the loss of that feature.

How is the camera on GrapheneOS compared to the stock Pixel 10? Do your banking apps work without playing cat-and-mouse games?

by fullstop

7/28/2026 at 8:04:22 PM

Default camera app is decent and has imo all the basic necessities. You could obviously install the Google camera app and use that if you're after the software features like AI enhancement etc.

Got 3 banking apps (Europe) and they work without a hitch or complaint since installing over 3 years ago. I still use physical cards though so tap-to-pay is a no but I was never interested in that.

by mschild

7/28/2026 at 9:49:21 PM

What I've seen many people do is install the Google Camera app and turn off network permissions for the application so it cannot send any data to Google.

by grepex

7/28/2026 at 8:05:55 PM

I have a garmin but my banks don't suppose it for tap.

There are a few settings you have to adjust for the camera to be any good. I thought it was trash until this weekend when I found the settings. The default has quality at 95% and has "highest photo resolution" toggled off. The stock camera app doesn't seem to let you set the resolution specifically.

I use Varo and Sofi. Both apps work on my phone. The only app I have had a specific problem with was the MyQ app, but there is a workaround for that one.

by imzadi

7/28/2026 at 8:10:25 PM

I added a ratgdo to my garage door opener and use that with Home Assistant (and wireguard to my phone) instead of MyQ, so that wouldn't be a problem.

It's probably worth doing, but I have about three and a half years of data / setup on my phone and I'd have to wipe that all out. I wouldn't permanently lose data, but I did spend a good amount of time setting up my home screen, etc. It's a big leap! :-)

Is your battery life better?

by fullstop

7/28/2026 at 8:14:53 PM

I haven't noticed the battery life being bad or good. So I guess it is fine. My other phone is an iphone 17 pro max. I feel like the battery degrades at about the same rate on both phones, but I use the pixel more.

by imzadi

7/28/2026 at 8:11:43 PM

You can install google's camera app if you want, and it works exactly the same.

I also use a garmin and haven't bothered with banking apps (all banks have a website and I avoid closed source software when I can), but it looks like quite a few are supported: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

by nvme0n1p1

7/28/2026 at 8:11:50 PM

I find it hard to believe that you'd carry two devices with you just to pay, why not carry a card with your pixel?

by gertop

7/28/2026 at 8:54:36 PM

I do have the cards in my purse, but I like the convenience of having it on my phone. I'll eventually leave the iphone behind though.

by imzadi

7/28/2026 at 7:58:58 PM

Similar experience, so i just use my garmin watch to pay. Similar compatibility as google pay, but since it runs entirely on the watch it does not check against play integrity.

by kikkia

7/28/2026 at 8:08:21 PM

Paypal works for payment, at least in Germany

by dgrabla

7/29/2026 at 2:06:16 AM

Why not just tap a card instead? No battery to worry about, much more durable, much more portable.

by ThePowerOfFuet

7/28/2026 at 7:50:52 PM

Why Cape instead of Phreeli?

by giantg2

7/28/2026 at 7:55:56 PM

As honeypots go (I'm only joking, well, half-joking), Cape's pretty great on a lot of levels.

I'm glad Cape has competition and hope Phreeli succeeds, but the time when I'd happily contribute to anything he starts is long gone. The substantial credibility he genuinely earned has finally been fully spent, at least for me, but I do hope it becomes a viable option.

by handedness

7/29/2026 at 10:50:07 AM

Im not sure what you're talking about

by giantg2

7/28/2026 at 8:39:12 PM

I appreciate this joke :)

John CEO of Cape

by johndoyle

7/28/2026 at 8:43:07 PM

Half-appreciated it, I hope.

Is there any hope of Verizon's network being added to your coverage? I spend a lot of time in pretty remote places and Cape's coverage is up there with its pricing in terms of being a major barrier to retention.

by handedness

7/28/2026 at 8:10:04 PM

Cape has SIM swap protection and IMSI rotation. As far as I know, Phreeli doesn't. Phreelie just promises not to collect, use or sell your data but doesn't seem to have any actual privacy tools like Cape does.

by imzadi

7/28/2026 at 8:51:45 PM

Any thoughts on silent.link ? It seems a little slow but otherwise fine.

by raybb

7/28/2026 at 7:52:34 PM

I do have to say that if you're interested in privacy, tap to pay or even a credit card is the opposite of that. Cash would be the way to go for private transactions.

by goda90

7/28/2026 at 7:54:27 PM

Threat modelling, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, etc. What are you defending, and from who? You have to consider that.

For real though just bring your actual card instead of trying to load it onto your phone. Why give Apple and Google your card's private key?

by pocksuppet

7/28/2026 at 7:56:52 PM

Because it's graphine and the entire point is that google is not involved in any transaction between you and your banking app.

by vitally3643

7/29/2026 at 6:09:14 PM

The transaction isn't between you and your banking app. It's between your bank and a load of proprietary Google shitware that Google cajoled Visa and MasterCard into accepting as a replacement for an actual card.

by pocksuppet

7/28/2026 at 7:51:14 PM

You don't want tap-to-pay to work because tap-to-pay requires a bunch of proprietary shitware in order for banks to trust it. It's basically like saying Netflix won't work because of Widevine DRM. Just tap your actual bank card, it's more secure anyway. Or your other, non-secure phone.

by pocksuppet

7/28/2026 at 8:00:15 PM

> You don't want tap-to-pay to work

Stop doing this. Yes, I want tap-to-pay to work. I don't want to be told I don't want that; I want it to work without the proprietary attestation garbage.

by JoshTriplett

7/29/2026 at 6:09:48 PM

Then I suggest sending an angrily worded letter to Visa, or Mastercard. They are in charge of how cards work, and they say you can use a real card, or a pile of proprietary Google shitware, or a pile of proprietary Apple shitware, and nothing else. So you can install one of those - Google and Apple won't let you - or use a card.

Can I suggest putting your card between your phone and your phone case?

by pocksuppet

7/28/2026 at 7:28:49 PM

Given how long I've been using Graphene, this is not a bad idea also because there has been increasing pressure from governments clamping down on privacy solutions

by casper14

7/28/2026 at 8:11:37 PM

I always found it funny that the first step of leaving the Google smartphone ecosystem is to buy a Google phone

by thrownawaysz

7/28/2026 at 8:49:09 PM

It is the worst part of it. The good thing is there are $500 models offered which minimizes how much money you have to send to google.

by user00005

7/29/2026 at 4:20:09 AM

You're aware that it's because of the capabilities of the hardware, I hope.

by cadamsdotcom

7/28/2026 at 9:03:09 PM

Same here. This situation is so mind-bogglingly ridiculous that I don't know how anybody takes GrapheneOS seriously. I mean, let's say I wanted to buy a big airplane but I don't like Boeing. Airbus looks pretty good and they invite me to their factory to pick out a plane. But then they insist I fly to their factory on a Boeing plane. I'd assume they were joking, and then they say "Really, we're serious."

No Airbus for me I guess.

by dreamcompiler

7/28/2026 at 9:24:56 PM

You can always buy an used Pixel. GOS only supports phones with hardware that they deem secure enough, and Google is currently the only manufacturer that makes phones that match their requirements[1], with upcoming Motorola phones that also support or even come with GOS installed coming out next year. I find this point so obvious that I can't understand people making comments like "can't take them seriously": you make security/privacy OS, having insecure hardware that compromises the whole project would simply not make any sense. Ask other manufacturers to do better.

1: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

by Itoldmyselfso

7/28/2026 at 10:25:12 PM

This. I bought an open box Pixel for a mild discount. I have a friend that used to work at Best Buy. He said so many people would try to switch from iPhone to Pixel, but decide they didn't like it and return the phone.

by theandrewbailey

7/28/2026 at 11:08:50 PM

The goal is that you want a privacy-focused phone. Whether Google makes money or not doesn't matter to the goal. Has nothing to do with you liking or not liking Google...Google is a "don't care".

by em3rgent0rdr

7/28/2026 at 9:17:26 PM

Just waiting for the Motorolas that will have first party graphene os support.

That's the only thing that will make me change my phone from 2019 still on life support thanks to custom roms

by LelouBil

7/28/2026 at 10:11:18 PM

I donate £10 a month to a rotating set of causes and Graphene OS is one. However they did recently say they have plenty of funding and need to start spending it. Ive tried and tried but I can't find the x post now

by prism56

7/29/2026 at 12:03:32 AM

I also saw that post.

by Cider9986

7/28/2026 at 8:37:44 PM

Here's hoping Pixel releases a flip phone 11 and Graphene support follows.

The Motorola razr has crease issues that they seem to want to ignore and Samsung has locked down their phones so root is impractical.

by canada_dry

7/28/2026 at 8:45:51 PM

> Motorola razr has crease issues that they seem to want to ignore

Details please?

by notRobot

7/28/2026 at 9:55:41 PM

The razr forum on reddit has some examples.

It doesn't seem extremely common, but the reports are for phones that are relatively new - not even two years of use.

by canada_dry

7/28/2026 at 8:45:35 PM

I would if I could even use their OS. Pixel phones are not available in my country and to import them is to pay 3x the amount I would spend on another phone.

by hootz

7/28/2026 at 9:02:39 PM

The OS isn’t compatible with hardware without basic security features.

Build it yourself for other phones if you want to have a security-focused OS without most of the security.

by DANmode

7/28/2026 at 8:23:10 PM

If I donate, can we get the Lineage keyboard with all the symbols in the same places?

I'd actually love to have the Holo keyboard back. That was my favorite.

by chasil

7/29/2026 at 12:03:06 AM

They don't do donations with strings.

But also you can just install your own keyboard app. They will likely make a replacement version eventually, it's planned to replace the stock apps that are bad.

by Cider9986

7/28/2026 at 7:30:55 PM

Why not sell phones?

by dvh

7/28/2026 at 7:52:18 PM

This is surely the closest to a solution we have, IMO. An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream. By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux. At which point companies and governments will be forced to take software freedom slightly more seriously. That's my optimistic take.

by bluebarbet

7/29/2026 at 12:01:43 AM

Grapheneos has take over the alternative OS scene even with manual installations. ~400k+ users based on updates (no telemetry).

Anyone can sell phones with it preinstalled and you can verify it's a legit install.

They mentioned they would like to eventually have Motorolas sold with it as stock so that's hopeful.

by Cider9986

7/28/2026 at 8:18:40 PM

> An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream

All you need to install graphene is a web browser and USB cable.

> By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux

Those exists. They've never gained traction. If you think graphene is too much tinkering, you'll be traumatised by that landscape.

by gertop

7/28/2026 at 8:38:13 PM

>All you need to install graphene is a web browser and USB cable.

Outside a section of the Western middle class, ordinary people in 2026 only own one computer and it's in their pocket.

by bluebarbet

7/28/2026 at 9:28:16 PM

You can install GOS via another Android phone...

by Itoldmyselfso

7/28/2026 at 9:32:57 PM

Still too complicated for just about anyone except the kind of people who frequent this forum.

by bluebarbet

7/28/2026 at 8:27:21 PM

Motorola will be releasing phones compatible with GrapheneOS, though it's unclear if they will ship with GrapheneOS.

by joecot

7/28/2026 at 7:52:02 PM

https://proxysto.re/en/ sells GrapheneOS phones, with worldwide shipping I believe. They do donate a portion of every sale to GrapheneOS. However, you're recommended to install GrapheneOS yourself and not buy it from someone else, so that you know it hasn't been tampered with.

by pocksuppet

7/28/2026 at 10:34:53 PM

I feel like this glows.

by HDBaseT

7/28/2026 at 11:58:23 PM

You can verify it was installed correctly using boot hash+attestation+factory reset. Much easier to just install yourself though. They have instructions for verifying.

Many services sell phones with GrapheneOS preloaded. Can be easily verified but no benefit for most people so it probably doesn't glow.

Proxysto.re seems to list good services as well and minimizes data. Accepting Monero is positive for their trust as well.

by Cider9986

7/28/2026 at 7:36:05 PM

Because that would require a massive network and additional legal liabilities.

Partnering with Motorola seems to be the best bet.

by mschild

7/28/2026 at 9:12:11 PM

Motorola... which used to be owned by Google (naturally).

by t0mpr1c3

7/28/2026 at 8:08:43 PM

They could partner with Fairphone and each can bring their complementary competencies.

by jitix

7/28/2026 at 9:45:13 PM

You are asking if a partnership with Fairphone would bring in revenue for GrapheneOS.

Fairphone would need to design a new phone with hardware that meets the security requirements of GrapheneOS, which is what Motorola is doing in the announced partnership. There is the development cost, and then the new phone hardware would be more expensive than the Fairphone 6. For Fairphone, there is the question of whether the cost of developing this new phone will be recovered in sales of this more expensive phone.

Would Fairphone give GrapheneOS a big enough share of the profits to fund the port of GrapheneOS to this new hardware and pay for the share of the costs of the monthly software updates? Otherwise it wouldn't reduce GrapheneOS's need to fundraise via donations, which is the subject of this thread.

I don't know if Motorola is offering any cash to GrapheneOS, but they are a famous enough manufacturer that the partnership will raise the profile of GrapheneOS and help them be more successful. By contrast, I'm not sure how many people have heard of Fairphone but have not heard of GrapheneOS. The only reason I've heard of either project is through tech social media. Retail outlets in my area don't sell Fairphone and local mobile operators don't offer Fairphone hardware. But these guys do offer Motorola.

In summary, I'm not sure a Fairphone GrapheneOS partnership makes financial sense for either project, even if it sounds great from a tech nerd perspective.

by doug-moen

7/28/2026 at 10:51:23 PM

Fairphones have very poor security at a hardware, firmware and software level. They've shown complete disinterest in making devices meeting our requirements.

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

Fairphone is closely partnered with /e/ and Murena which have repeatedly claimed GrapheneOS mainly benefits criminals and pedophiles. They've also said that about hardened devices in general on several occasions. They've falsely claimed GrapheneOS is mainly used by GrapheneOS. That's part of years of misleading people about what GrapheneOS provides to promote their products. Fairphone stood by them on this.

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116353973732143171

It's very relevant the context leading someone to post this thread. /e/ and Murena directly got involved in attacking us during the attacks on GrapheneOS with misinformation in France by a national law enforcement agency. Many of the claims made to attack it closely resemble years of past attacks by /e/ and Murena falsely framing it as being for criminals and not suited for regular people.

by grapheneos

7/28/2026 at 7:26:42 PM

:) nice, topical

by pluto_modadic

7/28/2026 at 7:58:20 PM

GrapheneOS looks pretty solid alas ios has the apps I prefer.

by amazingamazing

7/28/2026 at 11:56:02 PM

What apps? Everyone said apple has the best apps but I've not found that to be the case. The apps apple develops sure, but Android as a wonderful foss app community.

by Cider9986

7/28/2026 at 7:54:35 PM

They start their list with "GitHub Sponsors (credit card)", then list five cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin, Monero, Zcash, Ethereum, Cardano, Litecoin), two of which have "We aren't looking for donations of tokens, only Ethereum [resp. Cardano] itself." Then Wise Quick Pay, then Local Bank Transfer (providing the Wise bank details for Belgium, UK, US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Hungary, and Turkey), then PayPal (in CAD, USD, EUR, GBP – pointing out the PayPal fee), and finally Interac e-Transfer. I wonder whether there's a reason for this order?

Also, PayPal's fee, as described, is fairly steep:

> PayPal charges a base fee of 30 cents and 2.9% of the donation amount within Canada. There's an additional 0.8% fee for donations from the US and 1% for other countries. Currency conversion adds an additional 4% fee as opposed to the usual PayPal conversion fee of 3%.

by wizzwizz4

7/28/2026 at 8:09:02 PM

Maybe they're listing in increasing order of payment processor fees?

by nvme0n1p1

7/28/2026 at 8:16:09 PM

Or it's just in no particular order

by KomoD

7/28/2026 at 9:37:56 PM

Can't be, because bank transfers are free in much of the world, and cryptocurrencies all(?) have a transaction fee.

by wizzwizz4

7/28/2026 at 11:55:10 PM

Crypto is good for them because they pay most (all?) their devs with it.

Monero has ~1 cent transaction fee ime so negligible compared to a comparable speed transfer with banks.

They also support Monero and Zcash because they are privacy respecting unlike banks.

by Cider9986

7/29/2026 at 12:02:32 PM

In what way are banks not privacy-respecting?

by wizzwizz4

7/28/2026 at 8:13:56 PM

[dead]

by mnmnmn

7/28/2026 at 8:03:01 PM

[flagged]

by ktosobcy

7/28/2026 at 10:47:41 PM

Neither of those is a privacy or security hardened OS. AOSP is much more private and secure than the desktop Linux software stack and GrapheneOS greatly improves upon it. GrapheneOS does not promote Google services. /e/ always gives privileged access to Google apps and services and ships with a bunch of Google services active default. GrapheneOS doesn't come with sandboxed Google Play and doesn't connect to Google servers by default.

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

https://grapheneos.org/features

We have a non-exclusive partnership with Motorola Mobility to bring GrapheneOS to their next generation and later devices. This is necessary because non-Pixel devices don't provide the updates or hardware-based security features we need. GrapheneOS supports the latest available Pixels and plans to add support for future Pixels alongside our partnership with Motorola, which is not exclusive and does not preclude having additional OEM partnerships.

/e/ greatly reduces privacy and security compared to the standard Android Open Source Project. /e/ has repeatedly claimed hardened devices mainly benefit criminals and pedophiles and have falsely claimed GrapheneOS is mainly used by criminals on multiple occasions too. That's very relevant to the context leading to someone creating this thread.

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116353973732143171

by grapheneos

7/28/2026 at 8:11:10 PM

You don't have to install Google Play Services at all. If you have to install it anyway, then Graphene's implementation seems a lot more mature than microG or any other solution out there for /e/ OS.

by copper-float

7/29/2026 at 4:19:12 PM

That's the thing - I do prefer microG approach (or spoofing it altogether).

However, ideally - we should strive to have a generic interface (for location and push) to which (privacy preserving) implementations could be provided (akin microG) instead of saying everything is dandy and just propping up Play Services more "because there is nothing wrong by having to install them and we sandbox it"… meh…

by ktosobcy