alt.hn

7/6/2026 at 2:24:15 AM

Shrimple – A Simpler, Nicer Markdown

https://qount25.dev/Shrimple/

by usrbinenv

7/6/2026 at 6:15:10 AM

About five years ago I faced the fact no two Markdown implementations are fully compatible. I made StrictMark[1], which is a backwards-compatible Markdown dialect with a formal grammar (I use Ragel for parser generation btw). Takes 5-10 min with LLMs to make any implementation, cause formal grammar is unchanged. I use it, no one else does, which is not an issue cause it is backwards-compatible. GitHub renders it fine[3].

Solved my problems. Caused no inconvenience.

[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20210130000533/http://doc.replic...

[2]: https://github.com/gritzko/beagle-journal/blob/main/wiki/Str...

[3]: https://github.com/gritzko/beagle-journal/blob/main/wiki/Str...

by gritzko

7/6/2026 at 7:49:43 AM

How does it compare to CommonMark, which I think was the first formally specified Markdown dialect?

by orthoxerox

7/6/2026 at 3:59:16 AM

Indent for code blocks is a non-starter. Can't paste easily, very annoying to type in a web form. Triple backticks is the right thing.

by SwellJoe

7/6/2026 at 4:42:09 AM

Add to that using -> to designate a link with a numbered URL for the actual href (numbered hrefs are already in Markdown), and also needing to indent list items... this is a solution in search of a problem.

by prodigalknight

7/6/2026 at 5:37:58 AM

Triple backticks also let you specify the syntax very conveniently.

by sshine

7/6/2026 at 8:24:54 AM

That said, I think it would be better if the closing delimiter was different from the opening one. Yesterday I had an LLM output text where it forgot one of the delimiters, causing all text inside code blocks to actually be outside and vice-versa.

by xigoi

7/6/2026 at 7:51:27 AM

I wish HN supported triple backticks.

by orthoxerox

7/6/2026 at 5:31:34 AM

> a better, cleaner Markdown alternative

What makes it better or cleaner? It isn't explained anywhere on the page. It looks about the same as markdown to me.

by rendaw

7/6/2026 at 5:40:44 AM

It looks slightly worse to me. Slightly worse and not even ubiquitous?

[Edit:] There's h1 and h2, who'd ever need h3? You gotta be kidding me!

by tasuki

7/6/2026 at 6:30:33 AM

Lol, I have personally written docs down to at least h4-5

by yjftsjthsd-h

7/6/2026 at 6:06:16 AM

How is it more convenient to add lines under a title than start with a # ? How is it better to limit to h1 and h2 only?

by vekntksijdhric

7/6/2026 at 7:05:40 AM

I sort of lament the use of lines under headings, as they look visually better for human readers of Markdown, but they're worse in other ways: ambiguous heading levels (quick, which is h2, `===` or `---`?), and less token-efficient.

For me, the use of indentation over ``` for code blocks is a complete non-starter, though. It's hostile to copy-and-paste.

by KingMob

7/6/2026 at 7:21:36 AM

> I sort of lament the use of lines under headings, as they look visually better for human readers of Markdown

Maybe I am spoiled but I rarely read markdown directly. As a user of vscode I do ctrl + shift + v on a markdown file and read the rendered version.

by pan69

7/6/2026 at 4:27:51 AM

How does this compare to RST, which also claims to solve specific MD inconveniences?

In researching for this reply I see that it's joining a somewhat crowded field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_document_markup_...

by ser0

7/6/2026 at 4:36:53 AM

My favourite attempt to improve markdown is djot[0] but I think markdown just has too much inertia and most of its issues aren’t really a problem in practice.

[0] https://djot.net/

by barnabee

7/6/2026 at 8:02:40 AM

RST is pretty much the worst option out there. Your mainstream options are:

* Markdown. Great for simple stuff. It's going to be awkward if you're writing a book or technical docs or whatever.

* RestructuredText. Better for more complex documents but the Python code that drives it is abysmal and it's less popular than Asciidoc so there's really no reason to use this.

* Asciidoc. Definitely a step up from RST but it does have syntax weirdnesses, and the way parsing is done is a messy pile of hacks. Also Asciidoctor is written in Ruby which makes it horrible to work with. But tbh still better than RST due to the low quality of their Python code & docs.

* Typst. Definitely the best option for complex stuff except that its HTML output support is still experimental. You can make it work nicely with some fiddling and custom CSS though.

Overall Markdown and Asciidoc are the best options today, or Typst instead of Asciidoc if you are forward-looking.

This thing just looks like a slight tweak on Markdown which is completely pointless compared to the pain of .. you know, not being supported by any other tools at all.

by IshKebab

7/6/2026 at 3:31:24 PM

Why does Ruby make Asciidoctor horrible to work with?

by arunix

7/6/2026 at 3:35:47 PM

Even if this was simpler and better than markdown, I’d purposefully avoid using it because I hate the name so much. A good rule of thumb I just though of: Do not introduce seafood into your branding if you are not a seafood vendor.

by flufluflufluffy

7/6/2026 at 5:01:46 AM

Well, I like the initiative, but dealing with code blocks looks like hell. You should not mess with the original indentation.

Also, the markup should at least support tables.

by llagerlof

7/6/2026 at 4:23:35 AM

The text file looks great, but reading this just makes me think of the XKCD standards comic. Markdown has very few issues, and the remaining ones are so nitpicky that the downsides of having an additional standard are larger than the benefits.

On the other hand, I am always happy to see progress in the LaTeX alternatives world. That typesetting language has become comically overgrown and I think it's turing complete at this point.

by annzabelle

7/6/2026 at 6:26:45 AM

> Markdown has very few issues

Markdown's issue is that it isn't a standard, and many "standard" Markdown implementation default to rending HTML tags without any validation.

by otabdeveloper4

7/6/2026 at 10:42:05 AM

Using `-> Title.[1]` for Links looks neat at first. But I often tend to copy links from one Markdown to another. I don't think updating the footnote numbers of *both* Shrimple documents is easier in any way.

by genzer

7/6/2026 at 7:31:28 AM

Having the dashes to make something a headline on another row disconnects meaning. You now have to edit two lines to make one change.

Same for the code part.

This might be easier to read but it’s not simpler.

by LunicLynx

7/6/2026 at 8:53:07 AM

Markdown itself introduced that syntax. Though it’s not used nearly as much as it was initially, it’s one of the main features that make it very readable in plain text.

by ricardobeat

7/6/2026 at 7:58:54 AM

I like that urls are footnotes and can be in any order. That is very, very nice

by trencedamp

7/6/2026 at 6:26:43 AM

As prior art, see also djot (~2023), from the pandoc folks: carefully crafted as more well-formed than markdown. Notwithstanding the provenance and engineering, it had minimal uptake.

- https://djot.net

- https://github.com/jgm/djot

by w10-1

7/6/2026 at 7:09:29 AM

Interesting but need a side-by-side comparison to Markdown.

by roshanroyj

7/6/2026 at 12:57:41 PM

why are we reinventing the wheel? markdown works fine.

by WaalkTheEaarth

7/6/2026 at 5:35:22 AM

See also https://minimal.app/mnml-formatting.html, with code blocks recently added

by arthurofbabylon

7/6/2026 at 5:54:16 AM

It sounds like that’s an input mode (which maps immediately to rich structures), not a markup language.

by chrismorgan

7/6/2026 at 7:36:44 AM

> Headers are allowed to be of two level types

Come on, two levels ain't enough for anything serious. Also, the notes feature is not rendering any differently.

by tonnydourado

7/6/2026 at 5:48:14 AM

This is not simpler or nicer (per the current submission title) or better or cleaner (per the linked article). Well, it may be simpler in some regards if it lacks Markdown’s HTML basis (source of all kinds of problems but also of its popularity). Oh, and definitely simpler in being limited to two levels of headings (read: document title plus one level of heading). But nicer, better, cleaner? It seems to be determinedly different in a variety of capricious ways that are not obviously superior, and are sometimes obviously inferior. And only supporting one level of heading after the document title is… a choice; and not one I’m willing to consider better or cleaner.

—⁂—

Code blocks are indented by six spaces. Oddly specific. Four spaces or one tab I could understand, even two or eight spaces have some precedent, but six spaces?

Combining that with treating “### ” as special… very odd.

—⁂—

Link syntax is possibly even worse than Markdown’s.

Now Markdown’s is terrible: people mix up the square brackets and parentheses frequently, the fact that the href is next to the delimited text rather than inside (e.g. [text <href>] or [text|href]) is dubious, and it uses as its closing delimiter the right parenthesis which doesn’t get escaped in URLs <https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-code-points> so that you have to add an extra step after normal URL serialisation, { '(' → %28, ')' → %29 }, for general correctness.

But Shrimple’s? The idea of merging hrefs with footnotes is definitely appealing, but the way it’s been done is hard to read and quite unmanageable. The link is essentially delimited by a "-> " prefix and a "[N]" suffix. Tough to read, though syntax highlighting may make it more bearable. But really, paired delimiters are generally safer. In Markdown, it would have been a "[" prefix and a "][N]" suffix, and that would have been nicer.

Then the URLs (as text, not linked) remain at the end of the document, devoid of context.

And you can only use numbers, not names. And to be frank, inline hrefs are better a significant fraction of the time.

Footnotes are a bad idea in general: you have to go all the way to the end of the document to resolve them, then find your way back. By contrast, in languages like Markdown and reStructuredText you can define your links closer to where they’re used, if you wish.

  reStructuredText_ lets you link a single word with a trailing underscore.
  Multi-word link targets need `backtick delimition`_.
  In either form, double the underscore for an anonymous link__,
  which you can place after the paragraph.
  That might sometimes be neater than using an `inline reference <https://example.com>`_.

  __ https://example.com/

  .. _reStructuredText: https://docutils.sourceforge.io/rst.html
  .. _backtick delimition: https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/user/rst/quickref.html#hyperlink-targets
I also think that notes sources should be spanned: mark which words the footnote applies to. But that sort of thing is going beyond what Markdown covers.

(Content-wise: looking at the footnotes, I see two orphaned footnotes, and one of them seems to have bad HTML escaping done to it, > becomes &rt; which is invalid; where I would have expected that -> to become a link.)

—⁂—

Lists: requiring two-space indentation is bizarre. For bullets, it can be nice to match four-space block indentation, and that’s how I’ve tended to write things in my own lightweight markup language (LML), but then for numbers you want one or zero spaces to keep up that concept. In the end, it’s just… why?

> Subsequent items may be numbered normally (unlike Markdown, where they all have to be "1").

That’s flat-out wrong about Markdown.

> Numbers don't have to be consequtive, but they will be normalized to be consequtive. It just werks!

Yuck, yuck, yuck. That’s what Markdown does, and I hate it. If I wrote 44, I meant 44. If you really want to, have tooling that detects sequence breaks and warns “did you actually mean 44?”, but changing what the user clearly wrote is nasty.

—⁂—

Parse and render dictionaries: seems a very specific feature that is unlikely to compose well. The basic concept can definitely be useful, but I don’t think it’s exposed well.

by chrismorgan

7/6/2026 at 4:16:23 AM

Leave markdown alone. Focus on JS frameworks and harnesses please.

by aogaili

7/6/2026 at 4:42:25 AM

Ah,yes, the world cries out for more JavaScript frameworks.

by SwellJoe

7/6/2026 at 7:10:34 AM

[dead]

by OhNoNotAgain_99