6/27/2026 at 1:10:21 PM
by bogdiyan
6/27/2026 at 2:05:15 PM
They have an impressive set of investors [1]. Also, HN Headline [2] from the other day with 100+ comments.by kingforaday
6/27/2026 at 6:03:12 PM
I tried the Fugu models with some real world tales in C# and unity using mcp and open code. I exhausted the $20 plan 5 hour window in one prompt to review my theme system and plan some color changes. So I upgraded to the $100 to see the implementation and result. Well the result was worse than Opus, incredibly slow, and I ended up exhausting the new 5 hour window and have used 35% of the weekly now and it hardly created something opus was able to do at a fraction of the time and cost.Do what you wish with this info, but it seems to be a complete waste of $$.
by cdurth
6/27/2026 at 2:11:40 PM
First impression: Third-party benchmarks or gtfo. Personally, I've never heard of either of these companies before. We're just supposed to take their word that they've matched the best models on the market?Sakana describes their model as a "Orchestration Model." Does that mean that it's actually a bunch of different models glued together?
by fwipsy
6/27/2026 at 2:52:47 PM
Is it actually that hard to make good models or is it just about the amount of resources you have to do training? (This is an actual question, I really don't know.) I'm sure it's not trivial but does it really take world class secret knowledge to build off of the known existing techniques? I feel like there's tons of low hanging fruit still to explore, and time and resources are the limiting factor.by lifeformed
6/27/2026 at 2:56:09 PM
The gap between grok and Gemini to Claude and chatgpt suggests that yes it is that hard.by MostlyStable
6/27/2026 at 7:40:14 PM
I suspect that Grok has been ironically lobotomized by pressures to correct its political views.Similarly, I could imagine the Gemini folks working in a significantly more complex corporate climate, with different parts of Google pushing for different capability focuses. They are only lagging behind less than a year, so it isn't too large of a gap yet.
That said, the fact that Anthropic is currently the top dog suggests that talent and execution is incredibly important. A year ago none of my normie friends new them, and when i suggested using Claude looked at me like when I recommend Linux.
by arw0n
6/27/2026 at 3:04:12 PM
Not hard to be a fast follower. Lots of companies are ~6-9 months behind. Reaching the actual bleeding edge is much harder.by fwipsy
6/27/2026 at 2:58:43 PM
Their release post was on HN recently. The comments seemed to think that it was similar to OpenRouter, not an actual model.by Ifkaluva
6/27/2026 at 2:41:04 PM
Did Anthropic give you third-party benchmarks? Is that what you said to them? Yes, they're important, but the attitude is wrong.by OutOfHere
6/27/2026 at 2:47:51 PM
Anthropic always publishes 3p benchmarks every time they announce a new modelby bloppe
6/27/2026 at 2:52:50 PM
And even if they didn't, they have a track record. Even if we did have benchmarks in this case I would still wait until people got there hands on it and formed a more holistic opinion.by MostlyStable
6/27/2026 at 6:30:12 PM
Fudging benchmarks is a cheap way to get attention. If the model is really that good, it will have plenty of attention soon enough.by fwipsy
6/27/2026 at 7:10:40 PM
Yeah, what happened to that scam startup that alleged to have made a model context window breakthrough a few weeks ago?by greenavocado
6/27/2026 at 5:24:05 PM
Without reliable benchmarks, they are Mythos-like only in the sense that they accept text as input and produce text as output.by glimshe
6/27/2026 at 8:53:20 PM
Well if they are hyped like Mythos then we can add that to the list of “like Mythos”. Perhaps what’s missing is their CEO warning the world that their model is too unsafe to be released on the internet and someone must stop them before it’s too late.by theplumber
6/27/2026 at 2:09:34 PM
Feels like I need to repeat myself more than once a day now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48697258> These companies providing tokens, whether SOTA or not, that want to IPO are so fucked as time goes on.
>Can't sell their SOTA models, only slightly better than the open source models for the models they can sell, cost 20x to 50x for good models, a TAM that consists almost solely of developers, with no customer of theirs actually boasting increased profits as a result of AI...
> I fear their time to IPO may have passed.
What on earth could Anthropic and OpenAI Pivot to now?
by lelanthran
6/27/2026 at 2:58:32 PM
I used to agree with you but now do not. I now think the floor for this market is probably no worse than the annual revenue of cell phone plans in the US market. So say, $250 billion.Now, that probably doesn't justify the valuations and hype being thrown around, but I think it gets at a real revenue number.
I also don't know how that number fits into the funding rounds already raised and VC dreams of IPOs for these two.
This isn't coming from deep analysis on a verifiable source, but I started asking people in my social circle (includes white-collar and blue-collar folks) about their LLM use. The biggest surprise in 2026 for me was that almost all of these people told me about regular (and sometimes sophisticated) use.
A more intriguing observation - I work on the side with high school students and have two college kids of my own. Their LLM usage (and their peers) is much, much lower than expected . . . that's a little counterintuitive given "popular" perceptions I read.
by clusterhacks
6/27/2026 at 3:23:48 PM
> I used to agree with you but now do not. I now think the floor for this market is probably no worse than the annual revenue of cell phone plans in the US market. So say, $250 billion.I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about what their IPO is going to do to their share price.
In any case, $250b revenue translates to, best case scenario, $50b profit. On an investment of $1t. It does not look good for those companies making up the $1t investment.
by lelanthran
6/27/2026 at 4:05:29 PM
Gotcha. I'm past the point of having any confident thoughts about what happens to their share price at IPO.What about the idea that there is a high likelihood that the potential share price for OpenAI and Anthropic are both going to be pretty divorced from a rational market price for either?
by clusterhacks
6/27/2026 at 2:20:19 PM
> a TAM that consists almost solely of developersThat’s the wrong assumption. These models are good at office docs too.
by fassssst
6/27/2026 at 3:25:19 PM
> That’s the wrong assumption. These models are good at office docs too.The cheap models handle that very well. The SOTA models still only have target TAM of developers only.
You only need SOTA for development. The $1t investment is in SOTA companies.
by lelanthran
6/27/2026 at 2:28:47 PM
But you can do office docs work with way cheaper modelsby dgellow
6/27/2026 at 2:22:36 PM
They're passable at those. And still no moat.by airstrike
6/27/2026 at 2:49:55 PM
I have yet to see a model that can make a consistent and repeatable powerpoint deck that doesn’t need considerable manual revisionFind me someone who is putting raw text in and getting out a usable weekly staff meeting deck that doesn’t require massive revisions
by AndrewKemendo
6/27/2026 at 5:47:10 PM
I agree but why is that?Let’s face it - without the humans these machines ain’t shit - aka we have mechanically figured out ways to make machines better than us at certain things (on demand memory) but this idea they are intelligent is horse shit.
Btw the bar is low too! Most human created decks are garbage. And yet LLM’s don’t even beat those.
by yggy
6/27/2026 at 2:11:39 PM
Propaganda? Pay for “facts” to be placed in the model?by outside1234
6/27/2026 at 2:37:57 PM
I think it is time that we had a UN-sponsored standards body dedicated to bench-marking the newest models from around the world, for everyone's benefit.by zkmon
6/27/2026 at 2:25:50 PM
Excellent. I'm very thankful the asian/chinese don't give a fuck about the US government. It feels good to have a competitor.by w4yai
6/27/2026 at 3:37:16 PM
YES! Now things become even more interesting. US, your move.by skeledrew
6/27/2026 at 2:36:31 PM
Where can I get the API?by jdw64
6/27/2026 at 2:37:21 PM
Through their website.by Alifatisk
6/27/2026 at 1:42:26 PM
So now as a regular American we are behind because gatekeepers saying super intelligence is too scaryIt was bound to happen soon.
by qsxfthnkp2322
6/27/2026 at 2:06:21 PM
People who are shielded by walls are always surprised when the same walls shield the people outside from themby microgpt
6/27/2026 at 2:20:51 PM
It is scary.by lagrange77
6/27/2026 at 2:27:54 PM
It is not. Where's the danger ? We will need to adapt, as in every technology progress, but what do you think will happen ? Realistically ? Don't feed the fearmongering. Yes, we're disrupting the status quo, if that's the danger, then welcome to the world.by w4yai
6/27/2026 at 7:29:36 PM
> Where's the danger ?It's not one single danger, its a can full of dangers in various domains. And in contrast to other dangerous technologies, we are talking about one that has the potential to self improve. This smells like exponential growth doesn't it? Exponential growth is something we are not very likely to adapt to successfully, even if you say we are supposed to.
But before you complain, here are just a few concrete dangers, that come into my mind right now:
- mass layoffs in a system that is far from being prepared for sth like that. (no UBI)
- a Mr. Robot tier blackhat at the fingertips of every teenager in their mom's basement in a software landscape that is far from being prepared for sth like that. Side note: Big parts of the world including critical infrastructure runs on software.
- because it automates more and more intellectual work, it can cause mass brain atrophy, which isn't a hopeful sign for the human branch of the evolution
- increasing dependence on a technology, that is in the hands of those with capital.
And to the OP: this technology has potential implications that are far beyond 'being behind' other nation states economically.
by lagrange77
6/27/2026 at 4:14:56 PM
Any superintelligence operating under a consistent moral framework will decide to extinguish humanity with as little ecological damage as possible, because humans cannot coexist with other life on this planet. It will realize that a bioweapon is the ideal choice.by h26d3r
6/27/2026 at 4:18:09 PM
> Any superintelligence operating under a consistent moral framework will decide to extinguish humanity with as little ecological damage as possible, because humans cannot coexist with other life on this planet.There are plenty of internally consistent moral frameworks which would not favor this action even if the premise were true (and that premise seems at best unjustified and at least overstated.)
by dragonwriter
6/27/2026 at 2:47:27 PM
Actually the real danger is mass labor market disruption, and a massive shift of power from labour to capital.As was highlighted in previous discussions, the industrial revolution took 80 years to start benefiting workers. The continued impact of automation at least contributed to the rise of right wing extremism and an erosion of democracy all over the west. Now we face a development that has the potential to be faster than those that came before, in the context of political systems more fragile and worse equipped to manage the change.
So yeah, disrupting the status quo can absolutely be dangerous. It has been dangerous (and deadly) in the past and in the present.
by Certhas
6/27/2026 at 2:56:58 PM
> the industrial revolution took 80 years to start benefiting workersCome on. This is dishonesty and isn't the reality. We may agree that the Industrial Revolution may have taken decades (certainly not 80 years) for its benefits to be *clearly and widely* felt by workers, but anything further is an abusive claim. So what, because the progress doesn't benefit to workers instantly, we shouldn't do it ?
In the end, whatever your position, industrialization eventually raised living standards. So what's wrong with that ?
> The continued impact of automation at least contributed to the rise of right wing extremism and an erosion of democracy all over the west
This is oversimplifying and correlation at the best, not causation
by w4yai
6/27/2026 at 3:05:05 PM
You asked where the danger was, the response told you that disrupting the status quo can be dangerous.by jjj123
6/27/2026 at 2:46:07 PM
[dead]by ottotarc
6/27/2026 at 2:08:13 PM
asian is bad wording. this is a japanese startup backed by khosla ventures. japan is an ally of west. the title makes it sound like a chinese company did this.by visha1v
6/27/2026 at 2:13:34 PM
The article talks about 1 Chinese and 1 Japanese model.by mksreddy
6/27/2026 at 2:42:44 PM
We are all people. This ally-of-the-west framing is propaganda. Who has harmed me more: this US or China? Who do I have more in common with: a tech worker in China or a US government official?(I'm based in US - I use the best tech for the task).
by vcryan
6/27/2026 at 2:32:35 PM
Patriotism makes people biased. Better to not hold an identity in this area.by threethirtytwo
6/27/2026 at 7:02:08 PM
People are biased by definitionby exidex
6/27/2026 at 8:31:29 PM
I’m talking about biases as a noun.People have many biases. Patriotism is one form of bias. By having no identity you cannot have that form of bias.
by threethirtytwo
6/27/2026 at 2:20:07 PM
Is that really the most sailent facet of this story? Boxing it by official friend vs foe designations? Don't american academic institutions and corporate entities cooperate closely with Chinese companies as well?by colordrops
6/27/2026 at 2:34:17 PM
The US and China are in a cold war right now, whether that is fully recognized or not, the fight has already begun. The US is blocking models from getting out of the country and China is blocking researchers from getting out of the country. The expectation should be only more closing off in the future.by WarmWash
6/27/2026 at 1:57:40 PM
[flagged]by prng2021
6/27/2026 at 8:41:24 PM
Please don't take HN threads into flamewar hell. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.The idea here is: if you have a substantive point, make it thoughtfully; if not, please don't comment until you do.
by dang
6/27/2026 at 2:05:59 PM
https://www.npr.org/2025/09/05/g-s1-87367/anthropic-authors-...Seems like a bit of karmic justice.
by ceejayoz
6/27/2026 at 2:36:57 PM
I seriously do not comprehend how a consumer like you can have sympathy for Anthropic, as if you are part of their organisation or something. Competition is good for us. Wouldn't it have been for asian labs, we would would be fully dependent on OpenAI, Anthropic and Googles services.by Alifatisk
6/27/2026 at 2:16:06 PM
Both of the mentioned models are model orchestrators using a vastly different multi model paradigm.Saying they in particularare distilled from Anthropic is really [citation needed].
by TheGoddessInari
6/27/2026 at 2:02:50 PM
[flagged]by itsdesmond
6/27/2026 at 8:42:00 PM
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.by dang
6/27/2026 at 7:22:57 PM
Thanks for the irrelevant comment. I’m criticizing these Chinese companies because these aren’t accomplishments. Where did I praise Anthropic?by prng2021
6/27/2026 at 2:11:36 PM
This exactly.YC companies literally steal competing company 1:1 and you turn blindeye.
Then a thief steals from a thief to give it out at better prices than you write low quality comment.
Shame that America will greet 250th anniversary with this kind living in it.
by renoir
6/27/2026 at 6:05:38 PM
It's only immoral when others steal.by surgical_fire
6/27/2026 at 2:26:01 PM
[flagged]by ce3d
6/27/2026 at 2:37:42 PM
You made a new account to post this?by wise_young_man
6/27/2026 at 2:27:29 PM
[dead]by cindyllm
6/27/2026 at 2:03:15 PM
+1by I_am_tiberius
6/27/2026 at 2:32:55 PM
Please use the upvote button instead of doing this.by Zetaphor
6/27/2026 at 2:06:43 PM
they mined the internet first. now they’re upset someone brought a shovel.by visha1v
6/27/2026 at 2:01:22 PM
Anthropic just stole the internet and put it in a transformer and pat itself on the back for it - well no to be honest we have to suffer through hearing them saying that this model is really really dangerous until they got a reaction for they fear mongeringby amarcheschi
6/27/2026 at 2:22:03 PM
[flagged]by nullbio
6/27/2026 at 8:39:03 PM
Can you please make your substantive points more thoughtfully? You've been breaking the site guidelines with posts like this.https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Edit: also, while I don't doubt that you are sincere, this is excessive: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....
by dang
6/27/2026 at 3:04:23 PM
> Now no one can access ChatGPT 5.6 because of their 5 year long fearmongering regulatory capture campaign.I'm sympathetic to this arguement, but it's silly to ignore the other half; that the administration has openly feuding with them for months over limits to military capabilities.
https://www.politico.com/news/2026/06/04/hegseth-anthropic-d...
by ceejayoz
6/27/2026 at 3:22:36 PM
No one is ignoring the other half, the feud is rooted in Anthropic's insatiable desire for power and control over everyone and everything, including the administration. The same desire that is fueling the strategic fearmongering campaign underpins all of their behavior and the repercussions and sentiment they're facing from the administration and the general public.If their company hadn't been posturing like this for 5 years they'd have played ball with the administration like all of the other AI companies and they wouldn't have caught all that heat and taken down the AI industry with them. Just remember that Dario was pushing the narrative that GPT 2 was too dangerous to release to the public, while he was working at OpenAI. GPT 2!
Now it's an inevitability that China takes the lead - which was probably the case anyway, but a certainty if this continues.
by nullbio
6/27/2026 at 3:51:52 PM
> No one is ignoring the other half, the feud is rooted in Anthropic's insatiable desire for power and control over everyone and everything, including the administration.Again, this is ignoring half of it. See what they did to Intel prior:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/07/business/intel-ceo-resign-tru...
"President Donald Trump on Thursday demanded the resignation of Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan following reports and allegations that he has ties to China."
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/08/11/intel-ceo-trump-lip-bu-tan.h...
"President Donald Trump said Monday that he and members of his cabinet met with Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan, days after he called on the head of the chipmaker to resign. Intel shares rose 2% in extended trading."
https://newsroom.intel.com/corporate/intel-and-trump-adminis...
"U.S. Government to make $8.9 billion investment in Intel common stock as company builds upon its more than $100 billion expansion of resilient semiconductor supply chain."
This make them Intel's largest shareholder.
Reminder: the American right went all the way to SCOTUS (successfully! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colora...) on the legal theory that businesses must have the right to decline customers they don't like.
> Just remember that Dario was pushing the narrative that GPT 2 was too dangerous to release to the public, while he was working at OpenAI. GPT 2!
Is that truly outrageous?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Pile-1 wasn't dangerous on its own. But it led to the Tsar Bomba.
by ceejayoz