alt.hn

6/27/2026 at 3:30:01 AM

WordStar: A Writer's Word Processor (1996)

 https://www.sfwriter.com/wordstar.htm

by droidjj

6/27/2026 at 8:52:23 PM

I never used WordStar, but I've been an emacs user since 1993 and I love how they use the control key & that they shipped a tool to swap capslock/control. Swapping caps/control has been a constant in my life since I stopped using *nix workstations that put control in the correct place (left side of home row).

by drewg123

6/27/2026 at 7:27:44 AM

If you're like me and grew up using pseudo-Wordstar keybindings (me by way of Turbo Pascal and Turbo C) you may appreciate JOE: https://github.com/joe-editor/joe

by EvanAnderson

6/27/2026 at 6:22:08 PM

More to the point and much more complete, WordTsar:

https://wordtsar.ca/

by lproven

6/27/2026 at 11:33:15 AM

I still like to start the first draft of anything substantial by moving to a single screen, opening FreeDOS, maximizing the window, and typing in Wordstar as if it were 1987. Hell, sometimes I'll even put on a nylon windbreaker.

I always preferred WordStar to WordPerfect, largely because WordStar's keybindings were easy to learn and remember. WordPerfect, by contrast, seemed to require keyboard templates, a manual, a cheat sheet, and a certain amount of divine intervention.

by mkovach

6/27/2026 at 1:22:19 PM

I learned to love WordPerfect. I still miss the ability to "Reveal Codes" and see exactly where it had placed the non-printing codes to turn on/off bold, italics, to change margins, etc. When MS Word screws your entire document's formatting by typing a single letter, or moves stuff around the page seemingly randomly, your only option is to undo or reload the document.

You can read an insider's story of WordPerfect by Pete Peterson, one of the earliest WordPerfect employees. The PDF version is freely available on his website (https://wepeterson.com/almostperfect/).

by gramie

6/27/2026 at 4:55:03 PM

> I still miss the ability to "Reveal Codes" and see exactly where it had placed the non-printing codes to turn on/off bold, italics, to change margins, etc. [...]

Not a full replacement for WordPerfect, but Pure has "Reveal Codes" (F9): https://github.com/roblillack/pure

by da_rob

6/27/2026 at 1:55:47 PM

Wow, I'd completely forgotten Peterson's book existed. Thanks for the link.

My long-running quarrel with WordPerfect was always the keybindings. I can still tear through WordStar, and anything wearing WordStar's clothes, like Turbo Pascal, Turbo C, or Joe in jstar mode, like an overcaffeinated chipmunk that's made a series of questionable but deeply committed life choices about caffeine.

WordPerfect, though. WordPerfect and I never achieved détente. I never managed to internalize those key combinations. This is, on paper, a personal failing. In practice, I continue to hold WordPerfect entirely responsible.

by mkovach

6/27/2026 at 1:52:39 PM

Didn't MS Word have Reveal Codes ? At least for some years ? I doubt it is (or was ever) in Mac Pages.

by euroderf

6/27/2026 at 2:32:41 PM

Yes, around the Word 6 era. It also had a plain-blue-screen mode for the real WP diehards.

by kjellsbells

6/27/2026 at 7:08:43 PM

> Didn't MS Word have Reveal Codes ?

It has some. Getting rid of page breaks in the new Office versions is ... interesting, to say the least.

by hulitu

6/27/2026 at 12:32:13 PM

> WordPerfect, by contrast, seemed to require keyboard templates, a manual, a cheat sheet, and a certain amount of divine intervention.

I do recall WordPerfect masters being revered, if not more highly compensated, by the average duffer.

by jgalt212

6/27/2026 at 1:00:10 PM

Yes, and most of them were lawyers or worked for law firms.

by mkovach

6/27/2026 at 6:06:56 PM

WordStar was great once you had the keycombos memorized.

WordPerfect was great for doing lots of formatting it was so easy to make a signature for printing a booklet or zine.

I've been using Scrivener as my creating space. It is great at taking down words and organizing research. It just does RTF which is completely fine for my needs, but it is not a word processor or page layout program but that is not what it needs to do.

I'd rather use Word (ugh) or InDesign for layout. Separating the data from the display keeps things focused on what's important at the time.

by GarnetFloride

6/27/2026 at 7:50:54 AM

I grew up using WordStar on the Apple ][. It was great when all you had was an 80 column card, a green phosphor screen and a keyboard, but I was never sad to leave it behind when GUIs were invented. I have nostalgia for the time, sure, but not for that interface and the multi-key-stroke commands you had to learn by rote.

Each to their own, and of course finding an optimal writing environment is a very subjective thing -- but it's not like there aren't modern distraction-free writing interfaces that exist.

by epihelix

6/27/2026 at 10:07:35 AM

I remember being quite excited at moving from a DOS based word processor (Word Perfect) to a GUI based one (Word). It looked like a step up.

In retrospect the quality, quantity and look and feel of the documents I created remained exactly the same.

by tonyedgecombe

6/27/2026 at 6:24:08 PM

> I grew up using WordStar on the Apple ][.

I don't think you did. AFAIK it never ran directly on 6502.

Perhaps under CP/M using the Microsoft add-on card that DOS creator Tim Paterson designed for them?

by lproven

6/27/2026 at 1:51:40 PM

> a green phosphor screen

In the spirit of emacs-v-vim, I have to come down in favor of that other phosphor color of those days, amber. Better contrast !!!

by euroderf

6/27/2026 at 8:11:05 AM

> leave it behind when GUIs were invented

GUIs were invented by the Xerox PARC team early 1970s, the IIc (I have one sitting on my desk :) was 1984. Totally beside your point so I apologize. I only mention it because PARC deserves a huge amount of credit.

by user3939382

6/27/2026 at 7:17:17 AM

In the same way as WordStar, there's a community of DOS WordPerfect 6.0 users who claim with some validity that it's still the best for writing prose

by nylonstrung

6/27/2026 at 12:22:52 PM

That would be 5.1. The 6.0 graphic mode just gets in the way.

by nottorp

6/27/2026 at 6:25:27 PM

> The 6.0 graphic mode just gets in the way.

You can just turn it off.

WP6.2 on DOS on a 21st century machine screams along. I run it occasionally under IBM PC DOS 7.1 (the FAT32-capable version) on bare metal and it's wonderfully rapid.

by lproven

6/27/2026 at 4:54:45 PM

It's nice to meet one of the righteous.

by xbar

6/27/2026 at 8:17:47 AM

In the UK at least it crops up a lot in legal circles.

Quite often solicitors have stuff on 3.5" or even 5.25" floppies that need read, converted from WordPerfect into something modern, and delivered as maybe a PDF or Word Doc.

Fortunately, solicitors tend not to be short of money (that they bill their client for) so they can often find "a guy who knows a guy" who can get that precious floppy onto a USB stick. Occasionally I am the guy who the guy knows, and it buys me the odd case of reasonably-priced wine.

by ErroneousBosh

6/27/2026 at 9:20:12 AM

Out of curiosity, what kind of documents are those typically? Surely UK businesses don't need to keep financial records for 40+ years (or however long it's been since floppies were common)?

by amarant

6/27/2026 at 5:30:53 PM

Details of acquisition of assets which may incur tax or legal treatment on disposal?

Ongoing contracts (e.g. life insurance policies may last 40+ years). I did work for an insurance company once, and they had active policies started prior to 1940. There were electronic documents which dated back 30+ years.

While completed transactions may only need records for a few years, ongoing assets and contracts need documentation held for much longer.

by degamad

6/27/2026 at 9:51:57 AM

Legal matters often have decades long histories. Especially things like deceased estates.

by bigfatkitten

6/27/2026 at 2:26:53 PM

Jarndyce v. Jarndyce in fiction, and many others in reality, such as the UK PPI scandal, the Maxwell pensioners, and (US) all the malpractice cases like Vioxx and asbestos...

by kjellsbells

6/27/2026 at 3:29:12 PM

I don't know, I don't speak solicitor and I don't care to read them.

Probably stuff to do with property ownership.

Last PC I saw in daily use with floppies in daily use was about five years ago.

by ErroneousBosh

6/27/2026 at 4:52:58 AM

These programs are great for sitting down and writing with no distractions, but if you have a setup with directories full of word docs, text files, various graphics, even excel sheets all related to what you are working on that you need to refer to and cross-reference, they are less useful than an older version of Word or OpenOffice/LibreOffice. And they are difficult to export, share... there's a reason we don't use typewriters anymore, or DOS programs whose output is confined within a single program.

by paradoxyl

6/27/2026 at 5:50:16 AM

That looks like a different type of writing, perhaps research or business writing. Wordstar like editors that bring simplicity and a distraction free environment are best suited for creative writing.

by onemoresoop

6/27/2026 at 8:25:44 AM

I've found trying to find a distraction-free editor a distraction in itself. I'd bet money that most authors using an old word processor had some external reason to use it (cost, availability, editor compatability) and just stuck with what they know.

by jamiejquinn

6/27/2026 at 6:10:22 AM

A large fantasy adventure could easily have supporting documents with cities stats, characters, races, maps etc.

by wodenokoto

6/27/2026 at 6:42:12 AM

It could have, but George R R Martin famously uses Word Star and he surely has all that.

Then again he's also about a decade late with the next book

by taffydavid

6/27/2026 at 9:54:05 AM

GRRM could use clay tablet and it wouldn't make any difference on his output.

If you want output, Stephen King has used many processors, he doesn't care aparently as long as he can focus. Brandon Sanderson uses Word. The tool doesn't seem to matter.

by otherme123

6/27/2026 at 8:48:39 AM

My point exactly; sci-fi you even more need to refer to accurate statistics whatever they may be.

by paradoxyl

6/27/2026 at 12:22:08 PM

Unless the fleet travels at the speed of plot.

by nottorp

6/27/2026 at 9:55:26 AM

Back then we were far less shy about printing things.

by bigfatkitten

6/27/2026 at 10:26:27 AM

After reviewing a few options I think "Just print it out" is still the best choice for long term archival. The density is not high however the hardware requirements being just one mark 1 eyeball(hardware that self replicates and has been stable for millions of years) makes it the clear winner in almost every case.

by somat

6/27/2026 at 1:05:18 PM

DoD approves this idea

(Recall the literal warehouses of papers related to projects in Kelly's book and Rich's memoir)

by LearnYouALisp

6/27/2026 at 4:01:56 AM

https://wordtsar.ca/

by LeFantome

6/27/2026 at 4:09:00 AM

[flagged]

by dmbche

6/27/2026 at 5:39:36 PM

Robert J. Sawyer is pretty responsive to emails and seeing how it’s been 30 years since he wrote that, I wonder if his views and toolset have changed since then and he might be amenable to sharing more.

One of my favorite sci fi authors btw - perennial Hugo nominee in the 90s/2ks, his lone Hugo win is for the amazing Hominids but he has many other great books. I’ve bought/read all but 2 - something I should go and correct before his newest is published and I’m 3 behind!

by loloquwowndueo

6/27/2026 at 6:21:31 PM

> I wonder if his views and toolset have changed since then and he might be amenable to sharing more.

No. He uses WordStar 7 for DOS and made his own installable bundle of it and shared it.

https://www.sfwriter.com/ws7.htm

I incorporated it into my bootable DOS USB key:

https://github.com/lproven/usb-dos

He likes this and thanked me. :-)

by lproven

6/27/2026 at 8:38:11 PM

Wouldn’t a modern app like iA Wtiter or any other distraction free full screen text based writer be just as good? Or why does WordStar still have his fanbase decades later?

by submeta

6/27/2026 at 6:17:41 AM

Interesting that the guy who wrote the article is an award-winning science fiction writer and also the author of FlashForward. They even made a TV series based on it.

by llagerlof

6/27/2026 at 3:03:55 PM

This article (saw it somewhere years ago) was a large influence on my emacs config. Because of it I discovered emacs' secondary selection feature, which I use all the time now.

by overvale

6/27/2026 at 12:52:19 PM

Story time. In college 40+ years ago my housemate wanted to impress this girl by inviting her to write an important paper of hers with a looming deadline on his computer with WordStar instead of her usual methodology involving a typewriter. She was using WordStar comfortably in less than five minutes but being completely new to it was unaware of the practice of periodically saving one's work. Around three in the morning it crashed and took all of her work with it. I was told she burst into tears and had left when I woke up the next morning to find my housemate busily trying to retype it from her handwritten notes.

by gradschool

6/27/2026 at 1:36:27 PM

The housemate did poor job introducing to computer work. "Thou shall save your work often" was the first rule in those glorious times.

by broken-kebab

6/27/2026 at 1:47:02 PM

Indeed. In high school we had a Mac (Performa?) lab running System 7 in the art department. The whole system would crash so constantly that I would manually save my work almost after every change. Really stunk when Netscape Navigator 3 crashed, because you couldn’t save your work there.

by Bluecobra

6/27/2026 at 4:20:31 AM

I've long considered getting a netbook, slapping freedos on it and running WordStar or WordPerfect as a writing deck.

I'm not sure how I would get my files I create off the device since USB support isn't really a thing.

by jszymborski

6/27/2026 at 1:22:50 PM

https://github.com/lproven/usb-dos

"To get your work off the key, just insert the key into a computer that's already running any more modern OS than DOS."

by UncleSlacky

6/27/2026 at 6:27:17 PM

Thanks for the plug! :-)

by lproven

6/27/2026 at 2:53:11 PM

This looks like a winner, thx!

by jszymborski

6/27/2026 at 6:27:42 PM

I put that together. Any problems, do please let me know.

by lproven

6/27/2026 at 4:58:19 AM

If you use a machine with an ISA slot, you can get a card with a chip called CH375 or CH376, which deploys a USB flash drive like a normal hard disc with either a loadable driver or option BIOS ROM. You can just pull out the entire drive and mount it on a normal Windows or Linux box.

I think the below-mentioned Pocket 376 might have one soldered-on already.

by hakfoo

6/27/2026 at 4:54:06 AM

I thought freedos could use usb? Get something with built in ethernet or serial and you can transfer that way pretty easy too.

Or just run joe as jstar and close enough, maybe? I use joe for mostly everything, but I never used WordStar (well, I ran into it once)

by toast0

6/27/2026 at 6:40:03 AM

I've had similar thoughts and ended up going with FreeBSD and no network connection for my use case. It's been great. It gives you some of the expected terminal ergonomics (and USB support) without the distractions.

by kqr

6/27/2026 at 1:02:36 PM

Just use any linux or bsd on a second hand netbook or laptop, install joe editor package, disable graphical desktop and boot to console only. Done.

https://joe-editor.sourceforge.io/

by prmoustache

6/27/2026 at 4:23:26 AM

It should run fine under dosemu with a minimal console only Linux.

by kevin_thibedeau

6/27/2026 at 5:47:21 AM

If you want just load the dos net ios/smb stack (or a tcp stack) and go to town.

by geonineties

6/27/2026 at 11:00:21 AM

Hyperbola GNU/Linux and Wordgrinder or jstar (from the Joe package) and Markdown, or even Groff as the basic syntax can be easy enough. Then you run

     groff file.troff -step -k  > file.pdf
And you can now enjoy a formated book in the spot.

If any, check Groff with Mom macros, with does what you need with ease:

https://www.schaffter.ca/mom/

Online manual:

https://www.schaffter.ca/mom/momdoc/toc.html

For a quick command:

     pdfmom -step -k yourfile.troff > output.pdf
In order to get the last version:

- Install groff in Hyperbola GNU/Linux (or any other) if is not installed. It's mandatory in a 99% of distros but not Hyperbola.

- get https://www.schaffter.ca/mom/mom-2.6_d.tar.gz

- uncompress it

- copy om.tmac to /usr/share/groff/current/tmac/om.tmac

- cd to examples/ directory and do some tests:

             pdfmom -step -k mom-pdf.mom  > mom-pdf.pdf
WIth jstar+groff+mom you can get something basically perfect. "-step -k" it's just "-s -t -e -p -k", a bunch of options to enforce UTF-8, some proper handing and whatnot.

by anthk

6/27/2026 at 5:36:33 PM

I essentially did this in college for my freshman comp english class.

It wasn't groff, or even Unix, or even a screen editor.

It was some RUNOFF clone running on NOS, using the XEDIT line editor.

But once you added the few commands you need (page size, margins, double space), it was just blank lines demarcate paragraphs and you're off to the races.

The advantage here is that one of the things that actual Wordstar brings to the table is formatting. Few of the other just "editors" offer that. (Notably, things like double space). I would not like to have to maintain double space text in a random text editor.

Since the text formatter dealt with word wrap and pages and everything else, I was just able to dump in raw text, not worry about formatting (at all), and just go. It's "OK" to have a line with just a single word on it, so using a line editor really isn't an issue. (Joining lines in XEDIT is kind of a pain in the neck.)

The teacher was kind enough to accept my papers from dot matrix printers on reversed green bar paper (cut to width, of course).

But, fundamentally, using simple groff is very capable for basic manuscripts without having to fall down a deep dark rabbit hole.

by whartung

6/27/2026 at 7:37:18 PM

Groff+Mom does a lot of hard stuff easy. Adding fonts, headers, chapters... and it's far smaller than Texlive.

by anthk

6/27/2026 at 2:00:09 PM

Just a footnote to parent post: Groff is developed as a complete set of programs and macro files. Debian, hence Ubuntu and other derivative distros, segment groff into a base package with what you need to display man pages (using the man macros) that comes as part of a base install and an additional package that has the mom macros and all. Just 'apt install groff' to get the full groff distribution.

by 2b3a51

6/27/2026 at 7:19:59 AM

USB floppy drive on the modern computer side. I do this for old machines.

by incanus77

6/27/2026 at 8:18:57 AM

CF card. Pop the card out, read it on the PC.

by ErroneousBosh

6/27/2026 at 3:29:18 PM

WordStar was my first (WP) love and I found it on a CP/M computer which was being used to great effect for all sorts of office things. They later binned the computer for an IBM PC and I salvaged it. Worked great for a few more years and I really, really missed WS when it failed.

by FerretFred

6/27/2026 at 4:47:43 PM

Yeah, I used WordStar on CP/M for my school homework in the early-mid 80s. (As soon as we had our first "typing allowed" or "typing required" kinds of assignments.)

My dad brought home a circus of different PCs in those years. First a Sinclair ZX80 kit; a VIC 20; several Morrow Designs CP/M machines; Apple III, with a IIe emulator card; this interesting sequence terminated when he hit DOS/Windows and got stuck there.

He was a pack-rat too. I pulled a CP/M machine's terminal out of storage and used it with my first Linux PC in college. It turned out it worked with an "adm31a" (?) termcap entry...

by saltcured

6/27/2026 at 6:24:13 PM

I went from wordstar to xywrite which I preferred. I also miss my green phosopher monitor

by 123sereusername

6/27/2026 at 5:39:25 AM

I believe George R. R. Martin uses wordstar to write his books. I still hold a little hope that he will finish A Song of Ice and Fire series.

by terminalgravity

6/27/2026 at 8:59:34 AM

Maybe he hasn't finished it because he can't run WordStar anymore.

by EFreethought

6/27/2026 at 6:30:18 AM

I think he is busy making sure AI doesn't finish it first. Can't have AIs trample in his fantasy land.

by visarga

6/27/2026 at 9:36:01 AM

He could have finished the series long before the Game of Thrones adaptation was in full swing, much less the general availability of LLMs. I think the HBO money made him care a lot less about ASoIaF mainline and went back to editing Wild Cards and other projects.

by dessimus

6/27/2026 at 7:07:05 AM

LLMs are really bad at worldbuilding outside of tropes. They're great at coming up with on the fly setpieces etc. halfway through a session, but for novel concepts they really dont work that well

by rrvsh

6/27/2026 at 7:44:34 AM

Followed the UCSD p-system of putting command prompts on screen. Useful but also irritating to attention and screen real estate.

Usefully showing end-of-line markers. I remember thinking compared to dec-10 ROFF (which iirc proceeded nroff etc) it was both simpler and harder.

Used it, never liked it. Ed was the way.

by ggm

6/27/2026 at 9:15:54 AM

I fondly remember writing, mostly poetry, with wordstar on my first portable, the kaypro. I still have all the files. I believe it was CPM under the hood...

by poetaster

6/27/2026 at 6:21:52 AM

Using its text mode, WordStar made a pretty good programming editor.

by zabzonk

6/27/2026 at 5:27:57 AM

I still have memories of having to install Wordstar 2000 on 5 1/4" floppies. I think it was like 20 discs and painfully slow.

by EagnaIonat

6/27/2026 at 7:03:43 AM

I started getting into typewriters. I could've repurposed an old X230 and disable/remove the network card physically. But I also wanted to stop staring at a screen when writing, so I gave the typewriter a try.

It's still early and I'm struggling to write more than a few lines at a time. Not surprising from how I've been commenting "witty" one-liners in comment threads for over a decade. I expect being able to write long-form with no backspacing will need a lot of time to learn.

But I want to take back my attention. If there's one thing I've learned in the last decade, is that one's attention is a precious resource and it's time to be more deliberate in how I spend it.

by ares623

6/27/2026 at 8:19:09 AM

Reaching back decades, I used to do a first draft longhand on file paper, cross bits out, rewrite bits. Then bang it out on a typewriter. Then once over with a red pen the next day, and a complete re-type.

I'm not sure that I could work that way now, but it was more deliberate. Less 'drive by' thought.

"Our Writing Tools Are Also Working on Our Thoughts"

(I'm talking essays for University here not deathless prose).

by 2b3a51

6/27/2026 at 7:49:41 AM

I got back to writing longer texts by mentally separating writing and editing. When writing, just write. Even when you think the paragraph could be better, keep on writing.

Only start editing when a substantial piece is ready. Clean up some wording, rewrite a paragraph or two.

Even then, don't overdo it. There is always something to improve, you'll never be done that way. Good enough is good enough, hit publish and go on write the next thing.

by Rotundo

6/27/2026 at 8:43:24 AM

Attention is like a limited amount, you start the day with 100 tokens, scrolling tick-tock for an hour? 25 tokens, deep working for an hour? 25 tokens - what do you have left to do and how many tokens does it take?

I’m trying more and more to not spend tokens on things that don’t help (social media), etc.

by ed_elliott_asc

6/27/2026 at 11:10:20 AM

Side topic, but that website is awesome.

by saltysalt

6/27/2026 at 3:40:35 PM

> I've used WordStar, WordPerfect, Word, MultiMate, Sprint, XyWrite, and just about every other MS-DOS

I bet you never used Wang WP or Wang WP Plus for DOS :) That is what I used back then, WP+ was good but I liked WP original better.

I never saw WordSstar but Slackware comes with joe, which I hear is close to WordStar.

by jmclnx

6/27/2026 at 9:00:28 AM

The later version of Wordstar had a style template system which I thought was nice. So where Word Perfect had tags and more tags. Wordstar you just applied a predefined style to a block of text. I think somewhat like CSS.

by Gibbon1

6/27/2026 at 8:42:17 AM

WordStar nailed something we keep relearning: a tool with one job and a strong opinion about it beats a configurable everything-app for real work. No notifications, no panels, no 'while you're here' — just you and the text. I build small software, and the hard discipline isn't adding features, it's refusing them so the default stays out of the way. The nostalgia in these threads isn't really for the software, it's for that quiet.

by calbuilds