6/1/2026 at 4:47:18 PM
Support requests have always been the weakest link in the security chain for big corps. I've had accounts of mine turned over with 2FA disabled by humans before. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that the LLMs are doing the same thing.The simple fact that 2FA can be removed by low level support staff drives me mad. It defeats the whole purpose of the process.
by sosodev
6/1/2026 at 8:13:05 PM
A flow can either fail safe or fail secure.Fail secure: if you lose your email, your account is forever locked.
Fail safe: if you lose your email, your account is not forever locked. But, someone else might be able to get your account by pretending you lost your email.
There are no other choices.
When the electronic door controller loses power, either the door stays locked, or the door stays unlocked. In case of a fire you want it unlocked so people can get out. But then a burglar can cut the power to get in. Doors that stay permanently locked in a power outage are only permitted in extreme cases where security is of the utmost importance. Obviously Instagram accounts aren't as important as doors in a fire.
by pocksuppet
6/1/2026 at 11:18:18 PM
There are a lot of other ways they could do it.You could provide a delay feature… if you request this sort of reset, it takes 3 days, and emails are sent to the primary address every day with the count down. If your email isn’t lost, you would see these warnings.
You could let an account holder designate emergency contacts (other accounts) that are allowed to request a reset if you lose your primary email (again with a time delay to allow you to block malicious takeover attempts).
Recovery keys, security questions, real life identity proof, etc, are all other possible options, too.
by cortesoft
6/2/2026 at 2:08:54 AM
1. Provide a delay of a week. 2. Notify via all addresses on file. 3. Make an admin post (by the account in question) explaining that a 2FA override has been requested. Something you and all your followers can see.by markdown
6/1/2026 at 10:53:43 PM
There are definitely more shades of grey. On my iPhone I can select a close contact to be able to overturn my protection but this contact needs to have security features turned on, too. So Apple staff cannot do it, only a non publicly known person that has 2FA and encryption themselves. Add time delays, notifications, identity checks and more to it and you can make this process reasonably secure while still ensuring recovery.by hijodelsol
6/1/2026 at 10:25:45 PM
There are no other online choices. If my Bank login goes totally Kaput, though, I can take my ID down to the Branch to get it sorted. Same with my telecom provider.I try to only depend on services which have this property. I don't succeed.
by Lonestar1440
6/1/2026 at 10:46:14 PM
Sounds great until you have an aging parent with a problem who can't get there. Get a power of attorney you say.. great but they won't accept unless parent comes to the branch.This comes back to haunt you in the future.
by ipaddr
6/1/2026 at 10:54:30 PM
I've done this. I'm very surprised that, in your case, the POA was not sufficient to get your business done.I'm not sure what alternative you are proposing. This only gets much, much worse when the aging person is trying to use a password...
by Lonestar1440
6/1/2026 at 10:59:24 PM
> until you have an aging parent with a problem who can't get thereOr you get elected to high office and consequently getting to the branch is a bit ... faffy[0]
[0] https://chicago.suntimes.com/pope-leo-xiv/2026/05/06/pope-le...
by zimpenfish
6/1/2026 at 10:59:36 PM
This is still less problematic than an attacker getting in and draining the funds.by Gigachad
6/1/2026 at 11:31:32 PM
That's a strange one. I had to use POA for my mother in law last summer and it was straight forward.by RevEng
6/1/2026 at 10:59:12 PM
On the other hand, the best anti-scam feature for older relatives is to tell them to "go there in person". Get a call from the bank, they simply tell them "ok, I'm coming to the bank tomorrow, in person", and they're done. Scam call? Legit call? Doesn't matter, they'll sort it out at the bank.There's a whole wide age and knowledge/competence where older people can still fall for scams (or can't know if it's legit or a scam) but on the other hand are still capable to go to whatever office/bank they need to go.
by ajsnigrutin
6/2/2026 at 12:05:33 AM
Probably not news to anyone here, but partial step in this direction is to put down vetted official contact details for the institutions.Every time someone calls to say there's a problem with your account, you ask for their name and/or extension number, because recontacting through the institution is your only good way of verifying their identity.
by Terr_
6/1/2026 at 10:59:33 PM
Seems like a business opportunity. Face to face authentication in every major city that can authenticate people when needed.by gamerDude
6/2/2026 at 12:05:29 AM
Take it to the branch? Like in the 90s? What?by dzhiurgis
6/1/2026 at 10:54:50 PM
I'm probably out of date, but Google's advanced protection at one point did account recovery via postcard to your home address. High latency but pretty good as a fallback.by dgacmu
6/1/2026 at 10:59:50 PM
Postcards are the least secure form of mail. I would hope it uses a security envelope at least.by HWR_14
6/1/2026 at 11:04:06 PM
There are many good options. [1]by itintheory
6/1/2026 at 10:16:00 PM
I don't think its that binary.Using the door and fire scenario, you can have manual opening method available, just make it only available on the inside.
by HDBaseT
6/1/2026 at 9:04:56 PM
What about "go see an agent in person and use your fingerprint to prove it is you"?by eddd-ddde
6/1/2026 at 10:46:55 PM
Of course it's not binary, any more than there are two choices between "cheap" and "expensive"The question is how much effort and authority is required to gain access through alternative means, not whether it's possible.
It's always a question of how much, insofar as kidnapping Mark Zuckerberg or winning an order from a Federal Judge are two of the possible scenarios.
by CPLX
6/1/2026 at 7:25:21 PM
> The simple fact that 2FA can be removed by low level support staff drives me mad. It defeats the whole purpose of the process.Crazy Domains (one of the few registrars for my ccTLD) removed 2FA from my account (that was in the process of getting hijacked) despite me being on the phone with them specifically telling them not to do so [1][2].
What's worse was that my account got targeted by the same hijacker again when they seemingly changed their support system, and was hijacked for a few hours, leading to my Twitter account getting compromised (this happened around the same time fElon laid off a bunch of people and removed phone-based 2FA from accounts).
Fuck Crazy Domains and Newfold Digital (formerly known as EIG).
I eventually lost my OG username because fElon wanted it for his Grok nonsense anyway [3]. Fuck Elon too.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47913341
by ValentineC
6/1/2026 at 10:49:37 PM
I remember losing subdomain search: search.batcave.net 20+ years ago when they suddenly took it over. Batcave offered free hosting and a subdomain at the time.by ipaddr
6/2/2026 at 1:42:02 AM
Wait… why did you continue trusting them for there to be a second time?If they didn’t care at all about your instructions the first time?
by MichaelZuo
6/2/2026 at 12:11:25 AM
The strangest/scariest and honestly in the end all that surprising one of these I had was with a major storage appliance provider that most in the space on HN would know by name.We needed to delete a storage volume to urgently free up space, and apparently this was locked in a way the storage vendor was required to act as a "second key" to ours to make the destructive action. We had never properly set this up, and I never had even logged into my "support" account with them before. They required two authorized contacts on our end for them to confirm the action.
The process was effectively my colleague handling the sev1 incident asking me to join their Zoom call. They asked for my 2FA and I said I never had one configured and obviously did not receive it since my e-mail was not setup with them. The (obviously outsourced) support rep decided just pasting the code into Zoom chat and then having me read it back to them was Good Enough(tm) and the process continued.
I was a little too surprised at this at the time to think about it too much. But the fact they could see the expected generated code, and type it in themselves into their system was at least interesting to me. Not quite sure how I feel about it, since this did indeed save us from a sev1 going sev0 - but overall it's obviously quite vulnerable to both social engineering and insider attack.
It's certainly a difficult tradeoff. Not sure I would hand that sort of "override" capability to someone who was was clearly a Tier 1 or 2 support rep - I'd probably bury it (but in a different manner) somewhere that required escalation to a higher authority but still could be done in timely (minutes, not hours) manner. Who knows though, as organizations scale this gets harder and harder.
by phil21
6/1/2026 at 5:28:08 PM
100%Urgency.
Emotions.
It's all there, and high-stakes environments with no proper protocol are most vulnerable.
Source: used to work part-time in IT support at a hospital, by now 10+ years ago, so it was routinely requested to circumvent regulations and security protocols, even medical ones (cough Windows in ICU monitors and other medical "kiosk" PCs that should absolutely not run Windows)
by moritzwarhier
6/1/2026 at 5:53:23 PM
I love those admin passwords which a tech will give you at some point because he doesn't want to do the work himself. If they even have passwords...Unfortunately Siemens woke up.
by Krasnol
6/1/2026 at 6:10:15 PM
You mean admin
or Administrator
?Horrific, people should be jailed for cyberattacks when they carelessly just give out this word.
The experiences I meant were mostly
- password reset requests (admittedly, we had a protocol even then to strictly require a "physical signature", normally meaning Fax or internal snail mail)
- medical protocols: don't wanna go into too much detail here, but:
1) Windows requires a lot of maintenance, often even hard restores, to function normally, even when sold as the UI for physical ICU monitors
2) Medical personell often is severely overworked, especially people in important, but not formally highly-qualified roles. And things like Surgery rooms and ICUs often have very slim time slots.
With the former, you should not enter into them without wearing appropriate clothing.
It doesn't prevent people working there from requesting you to finally come over and make that UEFI-Windows-Crapware-Kiosk-PC which was sold as a medical device boot... of course especially not when there is an ongoing surgery nearby. And of course, your higher-ups will be there to help you sort out these issues without violating protocols...
thankfully I didn't do careless things there and haven't witnessed IT-related disasters there. But still, I gave these examples for a reason :D
there was a healthy culture but some of the situations encountered in medical IT support should really require specialized, short-term training.
Keeping up rigorous hygiene protocols requires dedicated work by professionals, especially in a large hospital.
And the same argument can be made for account protection and user support for large software providers.
by moritzwarhier
6/1/2026 at 8:12:09 PM
I support radiologies...I have seen things, patients wouldn't believe. MRI in helium off the shoulder of the CS student. I watched DICOMs corrupt in the dark near the PACS gateway. All those moments will be lost in time...like unsaved reports in rain. Time to rebootby Krasnol
6/1/2026 at 6:50:57 PM
The fact that if your account has had the SAME EMAIL AND NUMBER FOR 14 YEARS OR MORE and support still thinks you got hacked is more embarrassing to me.by giancarlostoro
6/1/2026 at 7:14:55 PM
I used my work email for everything for 14 years, now I'm retired/fired/laid off and I can't access it anymore and I forgot to change the email linked in my Facebook account.by SoftTalker
6/1/2026 at 7:37:24 PM
I would expect your IP to not change as drastically as some VPN IP being your only evidence that you're you.by giancarlostoro
6/1/2026 at 8:52:41 PM
That doesn't sound that unlikely to me personally, not everybody has the best tech habits and some life events can result in losing access to both very quickly. It doesn't have to happen often for it to still be a common event in support cases.by DSMan195276
6/1/2026 at 4:50:59 PM
recovery is always the weakest link in any authentication systemby spullara
6/1/2026 at 5:21:41 PM
This is not wrong but what’s really missing is cost: Meta did this so they can avoid paying people to do it. Lots of companies follow that decay spiral: your bank could shut phishers down cold by requiring wire transfers to be authorized in person but they don’t want to pay staff or risk you being upset by a transaction taking an extra hour so they don’t.Imagine an alternate universe where big tech companies worked with various trustworthy third-parties where something like this would generate a challenge you could take to your local notary, post office, library, police station, etc. where someone would check ID before approving it. How many phishing attacks would be prevented annually by a physical presence check?
by acdha
6/1/2026 at 5:37:23 PM
> your bank could shut phishers down cold by requiring wire transfers to be authorized in person but they don’t want to pay staff or risk you being upset by a transaction taking an extra hour so they don’t.Isn't this essentially what just recently happened to the Pope? Then there were people here doing the rest of your comment for him saying how egregious it was for them to ask for an in person authorization. It sounded like all he was trying to do was update his address, but changing your address from one in Chicago to one in a European country absolutely sounds like something a phisher would be trying to do.
by dylan604
6/1/2026 at 6:25:10 PM
Its perfectly acceptable for a security model to make things difficult for extreme edge cases like the pope. After all if the situation warrants it such rare events can always be escalated.by throwaway85825
6/2/2026 at 12:08:37 AM
To frame it another way: Better to inconvenience the pope once every few years than have tens of thousands of "little person" account compromises every year.I expect his Holiness might agree.
by Terr_
6/1/2026 at 5:42:47 PM
for a while facebook had the ability to recover your account by having them ask several of your friends if the recovery was legitimate but it was turned off. my guess is that not enough people added trusted contacts to bother running it.https://www.theverge.com/2013/5/2/4292744/facebook-trusted-c...
by spullara
6/1/2026 at 6:17:16 PM
I actually quite like this solution. Beats asking users to add a "recovery selfie" (something Meta actually does now) - I'd rather choose 3 of my friends and have them approve some notification in-app. Seems like better UX and preserves privacy a slight bit more, but we all know Meta's not in the privacy business.by parable
6/1/2026 at 9:26:44 PM
honestly I can't think of a better solution that would require a far more coordinated attack to pull off. it should work on any system where trusted folks are likely to have accounts.by spullara
6/1/2026 at 5:24:43 PM
The amount of hassle involved with regular physical checks is why it's not implemented, regardless of attack prevention.The cost of hiring a person is part of it but not really the core reason. People were sold on the Internet with "you can do things online conveniently" and reintroducing the need to physically go somewhere negates that angle entirely.
by ronsor
6/1/2026 at 7:42:06 PM
To be clear, I was thinking cost as more than just payroll - e.g. my bank can do this because they have paid for a branch near my house, Facebook does not - but another way to look at it is that many of the costs due to errors have been shifted to the user.I do think friction causes a reflexive resistance to the idea but I think that might be an overreaction. This is a rare thing people should be doing no more than a few times in their life.
by acdha
6/1/2026 at 5:40:04 PM
> People were sold on the Internet with "you can do things online conveniently" and reintroducing the need to physically go somewhere negates that angle entirelyBut how often does one need to do recovery procedures like this?
How much less convenient is it for everyone else to be at risk of their account being taken over?
by anonymars
6/1/2026 at 5:49:38 PM
Then you get trusted parties selling account access. Even if you remove them for a single false positive they will do it. A bit like a % packages "vanishing".The least terrible seem digital id.
by econ
6/1/2026 at 7:44:06 PM
> Then you get trusted parties selling account accessHow many bank tellers or USPS employees do that, though? It’s possible but quite rare because people know they’ll be running a big risk of being caught and no individual transaction is worth that much.
by acdha
6/1/2026 at 5:04:05 PM
It's a tough problem, because people forget passwords, change phones, lose access to 2FA devices, but still need to use their accounts.by SoftTalker
6/1/2026 at 6:07:51 PM
It's worse than "forgetting." Having seen older folks just set up new accounts for a move, they make zero attempt to even try to keep them! Oh, the phone company needs a login/pass? Just type in anything, don't write it down. If something goes wrong, they're going to call in anyway, not use the website.by StilesCrisis
6/1/2026 at 5:32:03 PM
I had to go through the account recovery on my Facebook account once and the proof they demanded was that I match a bunch of pictures of friends to their names. I think it took 3 tries over multiple days to actually get it unlocked because it turns out I such really remember a lot of the people I met 20 years ago and friended on Facebook.I don’t recall why I had to go through this song and dance. Very plausibly the account was still associated with an old school address that I could no longer access. So yeah, account recovery is hard. How do you prove someone owns an account when they’ve lost the things they are supposed to use to prove ownership?
by dpark
6/1/2026 at 5:06:46 PM
I manage customer identity and access management ("CIAM") for a financial services firm. Passkeys are primary, recovery can be performed by providing a government credential remotely (which costs us ~$2-3 per recovery). I do not think it is hard, based on what we have built and spent to enable these capabilities. NIST Special Publication NIST SP 800-63 Digital Identity Guidelines is a helpful resource on this topic.https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-4/
I think Meta just does not care if they're enabling AI attack surface and vulnerabilities into these customer journeys. It's...certainly a choice, versus deterministic journeys with hard guardrails. They could make different choices.
by toomuchtodo
6/1/2026 at 5:46:14 PM
> recovery can be performed by providing a government credential remotelyThat only works because you presumably do KYC when you open accounts, so you have an identity to match to. Most internet accounts don't do real KYC, so a government credential doesn't really work for recovery --- they didn't know who you were, so proving who you are doesn't help anything.
That doesn't mean that letting anyone sweet talk support or an AI into taking over an account is acceptable, of course.
by toast0
6/1/2026 at 5:48:18 PM
It's a fair point, and can be solved for as part of the "Verified" offerings Meta offers. This binds IRL identity to the digital identity at verification for future identity assurance step up (including if and when recovery is required). Failing that, TOTP, SMS, and even mailing an OTP to a mailing address remain low friction auth factors (with, of course, various levels of security).My point is that while this is not easy, there are obvious very bad ways to implement this that should not be done (chatbot or other generative AI interface vulnerable to the usual suspects of AI inherent attack surface). Don't build the bad way, the right away is known and straightforward.
by toomuchtodo
6/1/2026 at 5:11:12 PM
I’d wager your range of tech literacy/capabilities for your firm is much narrower than big tech.by macintux
6/1/2026 at 6:04:44 PM
Someone gained access to a Instagram account (belonging to a business by the same name) connected to a fb account (by the same name) that they still had access to. The only thing fb could do was terminate the Instagram for impersonation.It's an impressive level of incompetence.
by econ
6/1/2026 at 5:14:03 PM
Range != value, depending on use case. Doing more poorly does not make something better. Our customer identity capabilities are very close to login.gov (we don't have to support hundreds of agency customers and common access cards), and if its good enough for ~342M Americans, its good enough for our customer base.Broadly speaking, work for the sake of work is not valuable work. Show me outcomes for resources and time invested, and compare accordingly. Value is, again broadly speaking (there is always nuance), what you deliver. If you bring me an AI solution for a high risk high value customer journey, data flow, or code path, that is an anti pattern. If you, as a colleague or a stakeholder, put forth that we must use AI in situations that require a high degree of determinism (due to potential high cost failure modes), you will need to prove this extraordinary claim with evidence.
Choose Boring Technology - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9291215 - March 2015 (212 comments) ["Am I using this project as an excuse to learn some new technology, or am I trying to solve a problem?"]
I get paid to manage risk efficiently, including being measured on time and budget spent against the success criteria, ymmv; my comp and budget is not dependent on how much AI I shove into security systems. "What am I optimizing for?"
Amazon scraps AI leaderboard to stop workers chasing usage scores - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48315583 - May 2026 (19 comments)
by toomuchtodo
6/1/2026 at 7:15:53 PM
> [login.gov] if its good enough for ~342M AmericansI am very curious about the actual number of users of login.gov.
I am a US citizen and my experience was … negative to the point of actively avoiding it.
by fn-mote
6/1/2026 at 7:34:31 PM
> I am very curious about the actual number of users of login.gov."Login.gov has surpassed 100 million registered user accounts. The platform facilitates over 300 million sign-ins annually and sees more than 10 million monthly active users, acting as a secure single sign-on solution across nearly 50 federal, state, and local agencies."
https://www.login.gov/partners/faq/
(It is the primary identity provider for Social Security Administration, IRS will eventually adopt it [1])
[1] IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30430851 - February 2022 (182 comments)
by toomuchtodo
6/1/2026 at 11:54:21 PM
I have multiple login.gov accounts. They don’t let you change your primary email, so if you’re using corporate account and switch jobs the normal thing is to create new accounts. I’m sure this is padding their numbers.by plasma_beam
6/1/2026 at 5:56:40 PM
It's a hard problem. How do you prove you own an account if you lost all proof of ownership? Especially so if an account was never tied to your real name, in which case you could at least rely on government ids.by mr_mitm
6/2/2026 at 1:49:00 AM
Well the obvious solution is to prevent accounts not using a real name or registered organization name from being recovered.by MichaelZuo
6/1/2026 at 6:27:01 PM
Simple, you don't. This is all going to seem quaint in a few years when old accounts started getting deleted for inactivity.by throwaway85825
6/1/2026 at 5:06:11 PM
fair enough, but what's the actual point of 2FA if it's so easy to override?by jgalt212
6/1/2026 at 5:13:19 PM
the alternative is people losing their accounts and people aren't willing to allow that. i do think that apple does this a little better where they try everything to contact you in every way they know and it takes a week to get access. at a minimum to change your email it should require a week of waiting to see if the user can access the original mail to the hand off.by spullara
6/1/2026 at 6:04:45 PM
In some cases, checkbox-compliance with customer requirements.by recursive
6/1/2026 at 5:23:34 PM
It depends. Some like AWS take it deadly seriously and it takes a long time to recover root access to an account.by UltraSane
6/2/2026 at 12:30:07 AM
Additionally, they fail to recover said account when it's taken over. My father's FaceBook account was hacked (likely through phishing) and it was impossible to contact anyone to get it back. The scum who stole his account also uploaded illegal context, so the account, along with ~10 years of personal memories, was deleted without any recourse. It was impossible to talk to a real human being at Meta. Nothing but an insanely unhelpful FAQ page.I highly advise that you download and backup any of your personal data on all your social media accounts for yourself and your loved ones. These large companies do not care about you beyond showing you ads for dropped shipped garbage from China and AI slop tiktoks.
by LandenLove
6/1/2026 at 7:25:52 PM
low level support, means that they can be "bribed" to do things like this.by cryptoegorophy
6/1/2026 at 5:58:26 PM
>> The simple fact that 2FA can be removed by low level support staff drives me mad. It defeats the whole purpose of the process.The fact it can be removed by anyone is the problem. If you lose access to your 2FA (and recovery codes) then you should lose access to your account. Having it removable by anyone (other than a logged in account holder) defeats the entire point.
by basisword
6/1/2026 at 7:19:04 PM
> The fact it can be removed by anyone is the problem. If you lose access to your 2FA (and recovery codes) then you should lose access to your account. Having it removable by anyone (other than a logged in account holder) defeats the entire point.At least make it a major pain in the ass to recover like AWS, which requires some kind of notarised identity verification [1].
by ValentineC
6/1/2026 at 8:15:30 PM
What if I don't want to lose my account if I lose my 2FA? Then I don't enable 2FA, presumably. But some security guy at your company is forcing me to enable 2FA or you'll just lock my account until I do.by pocksuppet
6/1/2026 at 6:09:20 PM
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. Well, it gets complicated quickly when a wide range of users involved.by MarleTangible
6/1/2026 at 6:25:20 PM
I always thought the entire concept of even password resets was absurd. Email is a huge SPOF for basically everyone.If you lose your password or 2FA, you should lose your account, too bad so sad.
by robinpie
6/1/2026 at 7:27:50 PM
Completely unrealistic. Stuff happens. Email accounts get closed for no reason. People lose their phones, or have them stolen. Lots of reasons why someone might need an exceptional account recovery process.Not saying it should be easy or routine, it should not be. But it must be possible.
by SoftTalker
6/1/2026 at 8:13:32 PM
That's what recovery codes are for. Unfortunately it seems a lot of 2FA is now implemented without recovery codes.by basisword
6/1/2026 at 10:45:53 PM
I suspect very few people have good management of recovery codes.I just save them in my password manager.
As best as I can tell, everyone I work with simply doesn't save them at all and initiates a password reset if they lose their password/2FA.
by Marsymars
6/1/2026 at 9:20:11 PM
well. I lost my 2FA dongle once (left it on a different continent). Which I used to secure my domain name on which I received mail.suddenly I was happy that low level support staff could remove it. (I needed to scan my passport and photo. This was way before modern image generation.)
by karel-3d
6/2/2026 at 1:41:09 AM
This is why you should have at least two MFA options enabled.by Fnoord
6/1/2026 at 6:53:23 PM
Yeah. I spent years working partly for the account abuse team at Google and that is why I always shake my head (silently, because the HN groupthink disagrees) at the endless parade of stories on this site about people who lost access to their accounts and can't contact support. Under no circumstances do you want any possibility that front-line support can hand your account over to anyone.The lack of account support is a safety feature, not a flaw. If your accounts are valuable to you, act like an adult and write down the recovery codes on paper.
by jeffbee