alt.hn

5/11/2026 at 5:18:11 PM

Microsoft Israel chief leaves amid ethical controversy

 https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-microsoft-israel-chief-leaves-amid-ethical-controversy-1001542602

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 6:09:31 PM

TIL that Microsoft is the least Israel-friendly of the big three clouds:

> Among the cloud giants, Microsoft is considered the most vulnerable to anti-Israel protests and allegations of the use made by the Ministry of Defense on Azure, its cloud platforms, since it is the only company among the three major cloud companies that has not signed a special agreement with the Israeli government and the Ministry of Defense. The industry says that Haimovich, who is known as a prominent salesman with the government sector, was appointed country general manager, among other things, due to Microsoft's plans to retain and increase business with the government sector, despite not winning the Nimbus tender.

> In 2021, Israel awarded Amazon and Google the Nimbus cloud tender, encouraging government bodies and public organizations to migrate to these services, at the expense of Microsoft. In return, Amazon and Google pledged to establish service areas in data centers on Israeli soil, in order to avoid exposing security or government data to foreign regulation.

by noworriesnate

5/11/2026 at 6:25:43 PM

> TIL that Microsoft is the least Israel-friendly of the big three clouds

This is a good thing.

American companies should not be allowing their tech to be used to in the gross ongoing human rights violations in Israel/Gaza/West Bank.

Google and Amazon knew their tech could be used for human rights abuses in Israel (their lawyers warned them so) but ignored that in favour of $$$ per the EFF:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/04/google-and-amazon-ackn...

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 7:51:39 PM

Thanks for the link, I didn't realize the EFF spent their money on such things. I honestly thought they focused on free speech/privacy/open source.

I'm not trying to argue pro Israel or what not, I just wish they'd focus on their core mission.

by ApolloFortyNine

5/11/2026 at 9:03:28 PM

The EFF's mission is to ensure that technology supports freedom, justice, and innovation for all people of the world. That is verbatim off their website. It appears that this perfectly in line with their core mission.

by sdellis

5/11/2026 at 7:57:31 PM

Somewhat hard to be neutral when outgrowths of the Israeli state like the NSO Group and Canary Mission start taking a stand against privacy and free speech

by 4MOAisgoodenuf

5/12/2026 at 1:54:24 AM

this... is their core mission

by throawayonthe

5/11/2026 at 10:37:45 PM

Well, reporting the largest abuses of non-free software companies could be seen as a corollary to that.

by anon84873628

5/11/2026 at 9:37:38 PM

Freedom is literally in their name. Can it be more core than that?

by starefossen

5/12/2026 at 10:50:46 AM

Unless I'm missing something, it literally is not?

by planteur

5/11/2026 at 8:34:06 PM

[flagged]

by exolymph

5/11/2026 at 9:15:55 PM

This comment makes it sound like you are trying to belittle people who work at nonprofits to make yourself feel better about putting profits over people.

by sdellis

5/11/2026 at 8:56:25 PM

[flagged]

by nelox

5/11/2026 at 10:03:42 PM

Yep. These nonprofits have a tendency of being abused for the personal causes of their staff. Clearly this isn’t part of their mission unless you go through some mental gymnastics.

by SilverElfin

5/11/2026 at 6:37:09 PM

[flagged]

by ToucanLoucan

5/11/2026 at 7:18:54 PM

Like... all of us 300 million plus? Thanks dude.

by stasomatic

5/11/2026 at 9:44:38 PM

[flagged]

by XorNot

5/12/2026 at 4:20:34 AM

As if voting changes anything beyond the color ("red"/"blue") of the paid-off figurehead in power Voting hasn't been anywhere remotely close to real since the 20th century

by syeare

5/11/2026 at 10:05:14 PM

[flagged]

by stasomatic

5/11/2026 at 9:21:59 PM

[flagged]

by undeveloper

5/11/2026 at 6:46:07 PM

> Fully agreed, but also a hard sell given that America itself does not recognize what is happening there as a genocide.

This has nothing to do with a declaration of genocide. Both Amazon and Google respectively have made commitments to not enable human rights violations:

https://sustainability.aboutamazon.com/human-rights/principl...

https://about.google/company-info/human-rights/

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 6:52:11 PM

Well clearly they didn't mean much, which is about what I expect from any corporate policy declaration such as. If you believed them anyway, congratulations on having far more faith in corporations than I do.

by ToucanLoucan

5/11/2026 at 6:42:46 PM

[flagged]

by danudey

5/11/2026 at 6:51:55 PM

> Yeah but when you read the article it comes across less like 'Microsoft doesn't want its services used for ethics violations' and more 'The unethical genocide Israel is doing uses some servers in the EU exposing Microsoft to legal and regulatory issues'.

You are incorrect. Microsoft has made clear that it is related to all of its Azure services that were misused with regards to its terms of services, not just those in Europe.

Here is Microsoft's original statement when it began this investigation:

"The Guardian, on that date, reported that multiple individuals have asserted that the IDF is using Azure for the storage of data files of phone calls obtained through broad or mass surveillance of civilians in Gaza and the West Bank. Microsoft’s standard terms of service prohibit this type of usage."

https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2025/05/15/stateme...

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 7:19:13 PM

Ok, so The Guardian was incomplete in its assumptions. But Microsoft's explanation also does not make sense - see how they have to support any war waged by the US government. They would have had to support the Vietnam war, if were were in that era back. Something does not add up here still.

by shevy-java

5/11/2026 at 7:24:35 PM

> see how they have to support any war waged by the US government. They would have had to support the Vietnam war, if were were in that era back. Something does not add up here still.

I am so confused by these statements. Microsoft and other private companies do not have to knowingly violate human rights in the service of the US government whether it is war or not.

https://www.justsecurity.org/113820/us-corporate-interests-h...

https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-democracy-human-rights-and-l...

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 7:18:07 PM

Agreed, but then Germany is also to be held liable as it supports Israel and allows the USA to use its bases there to bomb people in far-away countries. So there is a huge inconsistency here, IMHO.

by shevy-java

5/12/2026 at 5:50:32 AM

Correct. Germany is the second largest supporter of Israel, and arrests people who criticise this.

by tardedmeme

5/11/2026 at 7:26:47 PM

> then Germany is also to be held liable as it supports Israel

Yup you are correct. In parallel to the ICJ genocide case of South Africa v Israel, there is a case against Germany for its action in support of Israel on that exact topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._Germany

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 7:29:29 PM

Yeah this is exactly it. Europe is no longer friendly with Israel.

It makes Americans seethe with rage ofcourse- only Americans are allowed to put pressure on corporations.

by expedition32

5/11/2026 at 6:44:08 PM

[flagged]

by frumplestlatz

5/11/2026 at 6:53:05 PM

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...

GENEVA – Israel has committed genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel said in a new report today. The Commission urges Israel and all States to fulfil their legal obligations under international law to end the genocide and punish those responsible for it.

by megabless123

5/11/2026 at 7:41:08 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 7:57:26 PM

The UN, like most western organizations, is biased in favor of Israel. Meaning, this reporting is what favorable coverage looks like. You should read unfavorable coverage, it's much much worse. It took the UN a long time to acknowledge Israel even did anything wrong.

by array_key_first

5/11/2026 at 9:43:24 PM

[flagged]

by frumplestlatz

5/11/2026 at 10:24:16 PM

The UN is a political tool absolutely - and it's one that's biased in favor of Israel.

Look, you have to understand that you and I are looking at this from a western lense. The west is EXTREMELY pro-israel. So your Overton window isnt just shifted a little buddy. It's fucking whiplashed alllllll the way to one side. So yes, from your perspective or mine the UN might appear as not pro Israel.

But um, they are, and quite a bit too. Again, if you want to see actual real anti-israel reporting, read stuff from Iran. You will surely notice it sounds very, very different from how the UN portrays Israel.

by array_key_first

5/11/2026 at 8:16:27 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 6:58:02 PM

Incorrect.

by catigula

5/11/2026 at 6:58:48 PM

[flagged]

by drnick1

5/11/2026 at 7:06:00 PM

[flagged]

by righthand

5/11/2026 at 7:11:28 PM

[flagged]

by minimal_action

5/11/2026 at 6:53:03 PM

[flagged]

by george916a

5/11/2026 at 6:52:19 PM

> American companies should not be allowing their tech to ...

Do they have a choice?

by yodsanklai

5/11/2026 at 7:16:15 PM

In what dimension do you mean? Legally? Yes, unless based out of a place with an anti-BDS law. Politically? Sure, it's a bet against those currently in power and for the sentiment in the population. Practically? Yes, they can refuse business and contracts. I suppose they could also put killswitches in their hardware/software, but I wouldn't be a fan of that for digital-rights reasons. Economically? Who knows, the market makes no sense at all currently. They could probably get away with whatever.

by idle_zealot

5/11/2026 at 7:24:14 PM

I’m kind of confused, in that Israel is not that big in terms of population, about 10 million people; how much data and cloud do they need?

The state of Pennsylvania is 13 million; would MSFT losing PA do them serious financial damage?

by shrubble

5/11/2026 at 9:01:35 PM

When you're doing mass surveilance, including storing every single phone call, of a population of 6 million people, storage needs tend to pile up quite fast.

by j_maffe

5/12/2026 at 11:01:49 AM

Plus most other governments buying the tech as well, I don't think the domestic market has much relevancy here.

by raxxorraxor

5/11/2026 at 9:40:59 PM

Israel is essentially fighting wars on multiple fronts at all times. Since they are so small and vulnerable, they have to lean more on intelligence. As a result they have the most advanced intelligence apparatus in the world, far beyond US intelligence for example. Part of their intelligence strategy, clearly, is advanced use of technology & data collection/mining/analytics. So they're gonna end up with a lot of data.

by 0xbadcafebee

5/12/2026 at 8:24:24 AM

> As a result they have the most advanced intelligence apparatus in the world, far beyond US intelligence for example

I think if you're going to concoct some kind of per-capita metric of intelligence capabilities, you're likely correct. But their intelligence industry pales in size relative to that of the U.S. and couldn't exist as it does without support from the U.S. and American companies (as we've seen with Lavender and Nimbus). American companies providing services they would otherwise have to develop in-house certainly contributes to their capacity for conducting what most would consider black-hat activities, including gathering intelligence on Americans and goings-on in the U.S., sometimes even of American politicians, in order to manipulate the American political environment to their favour.

I'm not aware of U.S. big tech providing such extensive services to any other country whose behaviour is so similar to that of the officially designated American foreign adversaries

by pcthrowaway

5/12/2026 at 7:12:21 AM

They're mass surveilling the vulnerable Palestinians they're genociding, and now turning their eyes toward Lebanon and Syria.

by za3faran

5/12/2026 at 11:03:57 AM

Which is mostly on Lebanon and Syria, because they are the aggressors here. Or in case of Lebanon the largest militant group known to exist. Perhaps they aren't the largest any more since the latest war, but they are still formidable.

by raxxorraxor

5/12/2026 at 4:42:39 PM

No they're not the aggressors. Let's stop with the victim blaming.

by za3faran

5/12/2026 at 8:06:01 PM

Hezbollah is an Iranian supported schiite fundamentalist militant group effectively controlling the south of Lebanon. Syria declared war on Israel right after its founding and it rejected multiple peace offerings since. They are anything but victims.

by raxxorraxor

5/13/2026 at 3:03:28 AM

They are the victims. Hezbollah did not exist before the occupation. And Syria has the right to defend their neighbors against foreign invaders.

https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/

by za3faran

5/13/2026 at 4:48:52 AM

The "army of god" isn't in any way a victim, they are perpetrators of the highest order. The political goals of Hezbollah are only in-transparent to those that are blinded in their hatred of Israel for one reason or another.

by raxxorraxor

5/13/2026 at 4:50:29 AM

Hezb does not mean army, it means party or group. Secondly, they only came to be after the invasion. It's normal to hate invaders who have committed countless crimes against humanity, not "for one reason or another": https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/

by za3faran

5/12/2026 at 11:29:00 PM

Why would you need surveilance in a genocide? Seems contradictory.

by urikaduri

5/13/2026 at 10:02:49 AM

So there was no surveillance during the Holocaust then?

by tdeck

5/11/2026 at 7:35:22 PM

[flagged]

by readitalready

5/11/2026 at 7:42:51 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 8:38:17 PM

You can't post nationalistic slurs to HN, regardless of which group you're talking about and regardless of how strongly you feel. We ban accounts that post like this, regardless of the group being slurred, so please don't post like this again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by dang

5/12/2026 at 6:40:17 PM

Does that apply to this comment on this page?

ToucanLoucan 23 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next [–] ... Americans only give a shit about the price of gas and eggs. Whoever has to die to keep those down is apparently fine with the majority of our population.

by 7402

5/12/2026 at 9:13:16 PM

Of course.

by dang

5/11/2026 at 7:52:22 PM

[flagged]

by readitalready

5/11/2026 at 8:34:46 PM

> The world supports Oct 7 as they now recognize it as a good thing [...] something to celebrate.

Obviously you can't post like this here. Since you have a history of posting this (and worse) on HN, we've banned the account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

HN users have a range of views on this and other divisive topics, and that's fine - but we don't allow religious or nationalistic slurs, celebration of violence, and so on.

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by dang

5/11/2026 at 8:24:30 PM

If your solution to give every bit of land back to whoever inhabited it 200 years ago I've got bad news for you.

by trick-or-treat

5/11/2026 at 8:27:10 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 8:32:30 PM

I know that a highly charged topic leads to all sorts of rushed conclusions, but you can't assume that a post not being flagged means the moderators saw it and decided to let it remain here. On the contrary, we don't see most of what gets posted to HN. There's far too much of it.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

by dang

5/11/2026 at 8:05:13 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 8:18:08 PM

I am in favor of returning America to the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. And while we are at it, let us also return Australia to the Aboriginal Australians. We probably also have to return Europe, Asia, and Africa - or at least some parts - to someone.

by danbruc

5/11/2026 at 8:20:11 PM

[flagged]

by readitalready

5/11/2026 at 7:51:54 PM

[flagged]

by throw310822

5/11/2026 at 8:01:56 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/12/2026 at 1:06:22 AM

Israel has done this to the Palestinians hundreds of times over since 1948.

by ngcazz

5/12/2026 at 7:47:48 AM

No, they didn't.

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 7:56:30 PM

[flagged]

by trick-or-treat

5/11/2026 at 8:14:56 PM

> Let's let Mexicans take over America

Good idea.

by worik

5/11/2026 at 6:14:03 PM

[flagged]

by hersko

5/11/2026 at 6:16:10 PM

No, it's just a random coin toss. Most of what's happening with rich people becoming psychotic or anti-social is simply greed based. You add money to 70% of the population and they'll turn out to be an asshole.

If Microsoft was given more attention by AIPAC or it's billionaires, it would've been the same.

Watching the rise of fascism in america should really remind everyone that theres far more going on then a single idiot driving far right fascism.

by cyanydeez

5/11/2026 at 6:53:14 PM

Being anti-Israel is a bipartisan position in the US among the constituents but not among the representatives (yet)

by noworriesnate

5/11/2026 at 7:20:39 PM

There's bipartisan consensus among both constituents and representatives. They're just the opposite consensus.

by idle_zealot

5/11/2026 at 9:19:59 PM

Ehhh, people the on right hate Israel because they are Jewish and people on the left hate Israel because they are the oppressors in the conflict.

Maybe there is some solidarity but rightoids love oppressors and lefties love non-discrimination.

by WarmWash

5/11/2026 at 6:45:57 PM

[flagged]

by periodjet

5/11/2026 at 7:53:54 PM

> success and powerful free democratic state in that part of the world

And it's also a state whose prime minister is wanted for crimes against humanity. And the population mostly supports those crimes.

by throw310822

5/11/2026 at 8:18:06 PM

> Israel is the only successful and powerful free democratic state in that part of the world,

Not true.

The West Bank is being annexed by Israel and transformed into a racist state, where Jews have more rights than Arabs

Not the actions of a "free democratic state"

by worik

5/11/2026 at 7:22:53 PM

[flagged]

by TRiG_Ireland

5/11/2026 at 8:17:03 PM

[flagged]

by myth_drannon

5/11/2026 at 8:58:18 PM

Free as in beer or free as in subsidized by the US taxpayer?

by steele

5/11/2026 at 6:37:53 PM

That must explain why the "least" friendly MSFT asked the FBI to spy on employees attending pro-Gaza/anti-genocide protests:

https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/microsof...

Good grief. Let's maybe not parrot out nation state propaganda with zero critical thinking on what's being said.

by shimman

5/11/2026 at 6:55:46 PM

[flagged]

by george916a

5/11/2026 at 6:07:52 PM

Israel consistently flaunts international law, has been accused of war crimes by the Hague, and the UN has found it most likely has committed and continues to commit genocide in Gaza. So I am not surprised that dealing with the country's Defense apparatus would lead to ethical concerns. Every international company should think twice about doing business with the Israeli government or companies rooted in defense and cybersecurity.

by tradethedelta

5/11/2026 at 6:18:46 PM

[flagged]

by hersko

5/11/2026 at 6:42:54 PM

What a bizarre thing to say, concentration camps during the Holocaust also had swimming pools and soccer fields (for the inmates as well), does that prove the Holocaust is a hoax? Swimming pools, soccer fields, and 5k events do not disprove ongoing genocides.

by artnanika

5/11/2026 at 6:49:34 PM

Let's not forget the 1936 Berlin Summer Olympics too. Public events don't disprove atrocities.

by rodrodrod

5/11/2026 at 6:24:32 PM

It was held in the U.S., not in Gaza, at Nethermead Lawn in Prospect Park, Brooklyn.

There are also other Gaza 5K events in U.S. cities, including Dallas and Milwaukee, depending on the year and location.

by rexpop

5/11/2026 at 6:30:17 PM

They had one in Gaza.

by hersko

5/11/2026 at 7:10:47 PM

When? Where? Citation needed.

by rexpop

5/11/2026 at 7:47:46 PM

Nuseirat in Gaza on 2026 May 8

by sir0010010

5/11/2026 at 6:28:00 PM

Honestly it's difficult for me to respond to this comment because the premise is so clearly flawed.

A semblance of civilian life does not mean genocide did not or is not taking place. Wholesale population displacement, destruction of a significant percentage of civilian structures, bombings, raids, land and sea blockades, statements from leaders that suggest genocidal intent... these point in the other direction.

Would it only be genocide only if no child in Gaza was smiling? If no one was getting married, no one singing, no one relaxing amid the horror? Inhumanity of this level of extreme only occurs literally when everyone is dead. I guess that's the line you have in mind?

by _alternator_

5/11/2026 at 6:35:16 PM

Wholesale population displacement is explicitly not (by itself) genocide under the convention. Genocide is an intent crime, and the intent has to be the eradication of the targeted ethnic, national, racial, or religious group. Kidnapping all the children in an occupied territory and dispersing them so they can't be returned to their families is genocidal. Mass displacement isn't.

The fixation on the term "genocide" has been a major own-goal for advocates of Palestinians. It was deliberately defined to be a difficult bar to clear. "Warm crimes" and "ethnic cleansing" are easy claims to make in the region, and ordinary people don't care about the distinction between "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide"; that term would have served just as well, without the escape hatch "genocide" provides.

by tptacek

5/11/2026 at 6:39:44 PM

So... "statements from leaders that suggest genocidal intent" ... meets the genocide bar, yes? I'll just quote wikipedia:

The Gaza genocide is the ongoing,[19][20] intentional, and systematic destruction of the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip carried out by Israel during the Gaza war. It encompasses mass killings, deliberate starvation, infliction of serious bodily and mental harm, and prevention of births. Other acts include blockading, destroying civilian infrastructure, destroying healthcare facilities, killing healthcare workers and aid-seekers, causing mass forced displacement, committing sexual violence, and destroying educational, religious, and cultural sites.[21] The genocide has been recognised by a United Nations special committee[22] and commission of inquiry,[21] the International Association of Genocide Scholars,[23][24] multiple human rights groups,[c] state governments, numerous genocide studies and international law scholars,[30][31] and other experts.[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide

by _alternator_

5/11/2026 at 6:48:08 PM

There are certainly people involved in the Israeli government that have expressed genocidal intent. The problem is that you can say that about basically every state in the world. It can't be the case that the moment a state commits an ethnically-targeted war crime it is per se committing genocide because you can find someone in the majority, the opposition, or the administrative state that has embraced genocidal logic. The logic has to animate the whole conflict.

You've rattled off a list of war crimes, many of which I agree with you about unreservedly, all of which are colorable. I don't think there's much doubt about the impact of Israel's post-October-7 policy on Gazans. But so long as you remained fixed on the term "genocide", you'll forever be arguing with opponents who, at least in the current trajectory of the conflict, have the better side of the legal argument.

by tptacek

5/11/2026 at 6:59:25 PM

I'm no genocide expert, but it does seem like legal scholars who _are_ genocide experts agree that the facts here seem to clearly meet the bar. The people who you credit with "hav[ing] the better side of the legal argument" do not seem, from my vantage, to be arguing in good faith. They are trying to bog us down in semantics when a truly horrifying crime is happening, and saying that we can't call a horse a horse is not helping.

I'll also say this: I greatly sympathize with Israel and Jews more generally here. The problem at the core remains global antisemitism; it's the reason Israel needed (and still needs!) to exist, and the reason Jews globally feel threatened. Antisemitism in the middle east is particularly pernicious, but it's not much better in Europe or the Americas. It doesn't just feel like a dangerous wolrd for Jews, it _is_ a dangerous world.

That doesn't change my opinion about the situation in Gaza---there's ample evidence that it's a genocide. But I hope this helps people see that we can, and should, hold these two truths at once. Jews are persecuted, and are in a precarious situation globally. In fear and in anguish, the state of Israel is performing unconscionable deeds in Gaza. A central cause is antisemitism; if we could somehow find a solution to that, you'd go a long way towards solving the whole conflict in the middle east. But good luck.

by _alternator_

5/11/2026 at 7:04:41 PM

Really the only thing that moved me to comment here, besides message board vulnerability amplified by waiting for a Rust compile run to finish, was the implication upthread that mass displacement of populations was genocidal. The rest of it I don't think there's enough daylight between us to debate usefully.

by tptacek

5/11/2026 at 10:30:58 PM

Pretty disingenuous to pretend that's the only thing that was listed.

by Hikikomori

5/12/2026 at 8:37:49 AM

> and the intent has to be the eradication of the targeted ethnic, national, racial, or religious group

Your use of the word "eradication" suggests total annihilation, but genocide refers to the destruction of such a targeted group in whole or in part.

You might argue that this can be vague and would allow any ethnic cleansing to be described as a genocide; in fact this is a point of contention among genocide scholars.

Certainly we'd both agree that Israel as a whole is carrying out at least partial destruction of the Palestinian people residing in Palestine, and that many Israeli politicians are calling for total or near-total destruction, many IDF soldiers conduct themselves accordingly, and their military actions involve indiscriminate killing/maiming often enough that there is a strong case their eventual goal is total or near-total destruction.

Put another way, there is no compelling argument that Israel conducts itself, in its extensive operations in Gaza/West Bank, with any goal of Palestinians eventually living freely there.

by pcthrowaway

5/12/2026 at 12:21:59 AM

> The fixation on the term "genocide" has been a major own-goal for advocates of Palestinians

While I, and many others think that Israel is committing genocide, this is not an "own-goal". The only people playing semantics here are Zionists who are staunchly pro-Israel.

by lorecore

5/12/2026 at 12:36:03 AM

I think you're going to find that "everybody who does not agree with me on the precise particulars of my conclusions is foursquare in league with my opponents" is not the winning strategy it might feel like here.

by tptacek

5/12/2026 at 12:43:09 AM

It was you who made the claim that identifying Israel's actions as a genocide (as agreed upon by many genocide experts and international organizations) was an "own-goal". That is to say that by your logic, if you feel that Israel is committing genocide, you should keep quiet about it because you may turn some mythical constituency into a pro-Israel position by simply stating that opinion.

by lorecore

5/12/2026 at 12:51:34 AM

I don't think the pro-Israel position is "mythical", but I can imagine that if you go out of your way to stay in spaces that affirm your own beliefs it probably does feel that way.

by tptacek

5/12/2026 at 12:53:53 AM

I didn't say that the pro-Israel position is mythical. I said that no one became pro-Israel because people are saying that Israel is committing genocide. They were pro-Israel to start and just use that as a rhetorical device to try to get people to stop saying Israel is committing genocide.

by lorecore

5/11/2026 at 6:29:53 PM

"Wholesale population displacement, destruction of a significant percentage of civilian structures, bombings, raids, land and sea blockades,"

These are all things that happen during war. Explain why this war is different. All war is bad. I genuinely don't see how this is not a war but a genocide.

by hersko

5/11/2026 at 6:33:18 PM

> "Wholesale population displacement..."

> These are all things that happen during war.

You do realize that Israeli government officials openly talk about permanent relocation (expel, "voluntary migration", emigration, etc) of Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza all the time:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/smotrich-says-n...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/occupy-expel-settle-minister-m...

This woman was actually tasked with that job by Netanyahu:

https://www.haaretz.com/gaza/2026-04-29/ty-article/.premium/...

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 6:41:09 PM

I have questions.

What do you think are the definitions of genocide and war? (why are they different words)

Do they overlap?

by Supermancho

5/11/2026 at 6:41:44 PM

You can think of genocide as a special case of a war, one where the party being genocided has no army or weapons to defend itself.

by js8

5/11/2026 at 7:53:31 PM

What do you mean no weapons to defend themselves? They have plenty of weapons...

by hersko

5/12/2026 at 4:08:14 AM

No, Palestinians in Gaza hardly have food and shelter, let alone weapons. Maybe Hamas (which most Palestinians despise) had couple handguns they managed to smuggle in but that's useless against bombs, tanks and drones.

Gaza has been under Israeli blockade for more than 2 decades now. Of course there is a resistance to that. It never had a regular army in any meaningful sense.

Anyway, you're not really disproving my point. The original poster has already conceded that killing, even in war, is not humane. Genocide just happens to be a war where there are no effective combatants left on one of the sides, so what remains is killing of civilians.

by js8

5/11/2026 at 7:40:00 PM

Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran— all of them have both an armed force and weapons to fight with. Hamas in particular, instigated the hot conflict that started Oct. 7 2023, and prolonged it through hostage-taking and active participation in armed conflict.

All these Iran-backed forces are formally allied into an Axis of Resistance, and their main success so far has been to confuse people like you about who holds the moral and ethical high ground. The reason they sought to sow doubt and confusion is to isolate Israel so they can destroy the nation, the whole thing, as they continuously have campaigned to do for perhaps 70 years.

by unyttigfjelltol

5/11/2026 at 6:41:15 PM

You cathegorize that as genocide when it is directed at a very specific group. Like jews in WWII, now it is Palestinians in their own country.

by catlikesshrimp

5/11/2026 at 7:54:06 PM

[flagged]

by hersko

5/11/2026 at 8:40:32 PM

https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition

"Importantly, the victims of genocide are deliberately targeted - not randomly – because of their real or perceived membership of one of the four groups protected under the Convention (which excludes political groups, for example). This means that the target of destruction must be the group, as such, and not its members as individuals"

In this case, the target includes Hamas members, but the target group is Palestinians. Israel recently passed a law to allow hanging of Palestinians when [conditions]

by catlikesshrimp

5/11/2026 at 8:23:08 PM

[flagged]

by george916a

5/11/2026 at 6:47:38 PM

See, the thing that makes a genocide is all the dead people. The dead people who were killed by Israeli missiles and bombs. Or when they, the Israeli military, denied aid workers entry into the steaming heap of rubble that they, the Israeli military, created with their missiles and bombs. The steaming heap of rubble that used to be populated buildings that they, the Israeli military, bombed into powder whilst people were inside of them.

by b00ty4breakfast

5/11/2026 at 6:21:41 PM

[flagged]

by dpoloncsak

5/11/2026 at 6:27:53 PM

Nope [1], they actually hosted a 5k in Gaza. Can you imagine Holocaust survivors or Armenians during the genocide taking part in a 5k? I can't.

Also, it is definitely not "by any modern definition" a genocide. Ireland is currently trying to broaden the definition of the term just to indict Israel [2]

[1] https://ca.news.yahoo.com/palestine-marathon-returns-gaza-we...

[2] https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/409187

by hersko

5/11/2026 at 6:33:32 PM

Yes, I can. This is what being human is. You eat, sleep, laugh when you can, make plans with friends, fall in love, get married, and grieve when the people around you die. And there is a lot of grief in Gaza right now, but there are still living people and living people do nothing if not love one another.

To suggest that genocide is only possible when there is no civil life, no humanity, nothing to live for, no I do not accept your definition. If you kill 10% of a population... does it only count as a crime against humanity if the rest of the population cannot even be human?

by _alternator_

5/11/2026 at 6:31:03 PM

People are allowed to attempt to live a life of dignity even while the entity and its defenders on HN are trying to wipe their people out.

by viccis

5/11/2026 at 6:52:21 PM

Holocaust survivors did have art/dance/theatre events, and soccer/boxing competitions. In ghettos and in concentration camps. This was viewed as a triumph of the human spirit over the horrors of Nazism. These events are celebrated in countless books by survivors, exhibitions, and art installations. I dare you to find one survivor's account that does not mention these events.

>90% of Gaza's infrastructure is destroyed, >90% of the population is displaced, no universities left, only one hospital with no equipment. These numbers are from several months ago, so you'll excuse me if I'm not keeping up with Israel's killing frenzy.

That Gazans still can make art, enjoy a coffee, and do a 5k to raise awareness in a world that doesn't care is seen as victory over darkness by those who are caring about this catastrophe.

Those who don't know anything about anything and use the smile of a child to screech "not a genocide!" should be ashamed of themselves.

by constantius

5/11/2026 at 9:27:13 PM

Well, there was an "orchestra" in Auschwitz.

by rexpop

5/11/2026 at 6:28:45 PM

[flagged]

by pnemonic

5/11/2026 at 6:30:23 PM

Not a useful reply btw.

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 6:10:07 PM

So Israel is switching to Google and Amazon. Hm.

by Animats

5/11/2026 at 6:28:33 PM

Yup. Google and Amazon knew their tech could be used for human rights abuses in Israel (their lawyers warned them so) but Google and Amazon apparently value $$$ more than human rights per this EFF article:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/04/google-and-amazon-ackn...

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 9:22:58 PM

I wonder if they would provide Hamas resources too to balance it out.

by WarmWash

5/12/2026 at 12:00:17 AM

Ah yes, the perfect amoral capitalist position. I want money, social consequences be damned.

by tkel

5/11/2026 at 6:22:17 PM

Too little too late.

by aaa_aaa

5/11/2026 at 7:59:26 PM

MSFT won't sign non-disclosures, but they have policies regarding not using your data to train their models. Just trust them if you want to use azure -except for that rogue employee part I guess.

by jksmith

5/11/2026 at 5:56:39 PM

>> Alon Haimovich is leaving after an investigation into alleged unethical use of Azure by the Ministry of Defense, “Globes” has learned. Microsoft Israel has been placed under the management of Microsoft France.

by basisword

5/11/2026 at 6:19:52 PM

What exactly did he do?

by rolymath

5/11/2026 at 6:43:49 PM

Allowed 'unethical' usage of Azure services by the Ministry of Defense

(...to occur on servers in the European Union, where Microsoft could get in trouble for it)

by danudey

5/11/2026 at 7:25:04 PM

Israel has been leaking US state secrets to China and Russia for decades. Intel and Microsoft both moved core R&D hubs to Israel even after the country had been caught leaking US secrets. Israel is not an ally of the United States, end of story.

by tinfoilhatter

5/11/2026 at 7:46:59 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 8:01:50 PM

Being anti-israel is not the same as being anti-semetic. That's a low-effort low-intelligence "argument" people throw out to quickly stamp out dissent against Israel, and it doesn't work anymore. It's been overused, get new material.

Israel probably does not leak secrets to Russia or China, but Israel is a bad ally of the US and has gotten us in a lot of hot water. It would be better for the US if we just let them figure their own shit out. We do not need to be aiding a genocide for no benefit of our own.

by array_key_first

5/11/2026 at 8:05:16 PM

> Israel probably does not leak secrets to Russia or China

Israel did, for decades. Just google it.

by throw310822

5/12/2026 at 10:43:20 AM

Provide a credible link or gtfo.

Btw I have no love for Israel, but "just google it" is an uninformative, unhelpful comment

by boppo1

5/12/2026 at 5:31:55 PM

Literally just google "Israel transfer US military secrets to Russia and China". Then read the AI overview and the first page of results. That's it. I mean it's hard to be in denial when information is so available.

by throw310822

5/11/2026 at 7:58:28 PM

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2013/12/24/report-israe...

Weaponizing antisemitism as usual, what a shocker.

by tinfoilhatter

5/11/2026 at 8:15:21 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 8:18:26 PM

Yes actually you can, because it's happened multiple times over multiple decades.

by tinfoilhatter

5/11/2026 at 7:16:42 PM

> In September 2025, Microsoft decided to unilaterally terminate the usage agreement with IDF intelligence Unit 8200 after an article published in the UK newspaper "The Guardian," which claimed that the unit was collecting information about Palestinians for the purpose of fighting terrorism

Ok but ... isn't Microsoft forced, by law, to cooperate with the US government and US military? So why is that then not an ethical (or other) issue?

To me this seems inconsistent. The only "necessity" I see is for Microsoft to be penalised by EU laws, which could explain that "investigation" to some extent. But the EU in general is super-weak. They even give data from EU citizens to the US government as-is, without any problem, so I don't quite buy into that explanation. Is there another explanation that makes more sense?

by shevy-java

5/11/2026 at 7:58:57 PM

> isn't Microsoft forced, by law, to cooperate with the US government and US military?

Microsoft and other cloud companies are not forced to do anything the US government or US military tells them to do. You are just making this up.

by bhouston

5/11/2026 at 8:19:34 PM

Technically the government can force some industries to do some things. (and that's just officially. The singer sewing machine company didn't need to be forced into weapons manufacturing) But, that's a wartime measure, if the government forced every steel mill in the country to produce for them, I'm not sure it'd even have to go to the supreme court.

by Mr_Bees69

5/11/2026 at 7:49:41 PM

~28,000 Gaza children murdered in 2 years by Israeli gov. About 68,000 people are officially confirmed killed. 70% of all casualties are women and children. "Western liberal democracies", especially the US gov, are up to their necks in blood, as usual. Microsoft is no different, its only concern is to avoid legal trouble and uphold the facade of legal obligation, otherwise business as usual with Israeli gov. In any category of violence, the US gov, is the undisputed record holder since WW2 - wars of aggression started, proxy wars started, democracies overthrown, dictatorships established, terrorist groups created, funded and armed, resources plundered, economies impoverished, tens of millions of civilians displaced, maimed and murdered. US citizens have a duty to learn about the actual history of their country, and the elite uni-party mafia criminals in charge of it, not just what is shown to them on CNN, FOX, NYT, WSJ, etc. Read books by Michael Parenti, like, Face of Imperialism, as a starting point.

by Fando

5/11/2026 at 8:13:59 PM

[flagged]

by Mr_Bees69

5/12/2026 at 2:12:27 AM

thats a paradoxical opinion. somebody did something bad therefore their opinion isnt worth discussing. you stated your opinion, therefore you believe its worth discussing. ever do anything bad before?

for what its worth i could spend a few thousand words discussing why this man is evil for supporting genocide, and i could also spend a few thousand words discussing why this man is good for protesting against wanton war. these are both true simultaneously.

by thin_carapace

5/11/2026 at 10:55:35 PM

[flagged]

by culi

5/12/2026 at 2:32:23 PM

> You can add Noam Chomsky

That's because Chomsky is a genocide denialist, he especially and famously called victims of the Khmer Rouge liars.

by ch4s3

5/12/2026 at 7:30:17 PM

Chomsky's had his fair of controversial takes but he never called any victim a liar

by culi

5/13/2026 at 1:37:56 AM

Lucky you, since I know you love links, here’s the rat-bag’s own site[1].

> Specifically, refugees questioned by Westerners or Thais have a vested interest in reporting atrocities on the part of Cambodian revolutionaries, an obvious fact that no serious reporter will fail to take into account.

There are several other quotes where he implies refugees are lying. And if you’re good at digging through library archives there’s a recording of him saying it more directly in an interview some time around 1977.

Chomsky’s a huge piece of shit and carried water for the Khmer Rouge.

[1] https://chomsky.info/19770625/

by ch4s3

5/12/2026 at 2:37:24 AM

[flagged]

by tinfoilhatter

5/12/2026 at 5:00:57 AM

Thank you. So happy to finally see a shift in attitude on the this site. The initial silence literally had me leave this site for awhile. So glad to be back.

by SPCECDET

5/12/2026 at 7:18:06 AM

I can't hear you over the sounds of Israel is the only democracy in the region.

by Hikikomori

5/11/2026 at 6:34:51 PM

[flagged]

by localhoster

5/11/2026 at 7:48:36 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 8:16:36 PM

[flagged]

by tinfoilhatter

5/11/2026 at 8:23:13 PM

[flagged]

by surgical_fire

5/11/2026 at 8:23:44 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 8:22:35 PM

[flagged]

by krembo

5/11/2026 at 8:35:20 PM

Which ones? I may have fudged the church one - I meant Gaza and not the entirety of Palestine. What other claims above aren't true? I'm happy to provide sources to prove them.

by tinfoilhatter

5/11/2026 at 6:15:00 PM

Lovely, but in character, to see a .co.il 403-block a broad swath of the world.

by deaux

5/11/2026 at 8:52:39 PM

I don't know what you're experiencing, of course, but I do know from the (entirely different) context of running HN that such blocks can happen for a lot of different reasons and you can't really assess them correctly without, at least, multiple data points. Not sure if it's helpful to say this or not...

by dang

5/11/2026 at 6:17:14 PM

Okay, now I will be supporting Azure products and will try to bring them into my workplace over AWS/Google Cloud.

by computerex

5/11/2026 at 6:27:13 PM

Why? Microsoft probably just hasn’t prioritized nimbus participation over their other construction work. They probably haven’t yet constructed the correct subsidiary structure or key sharing agreements that allow them to participate either.

Sooner or later they’ll participate. And then you would have moved your workload for no reason.

by orochimaaru

5/11/2026 at 6:27:27 PM

I wouldn't be so sure. The departure of these guys only opens new room for less 'pro-ethics' corpos to replace them.

by pnemonic

5/11/2026 at 6:44:57 PM

The reason cited for this whole fiasco is that some of the Ministry of Defense's genocide work could be performed by servers in the EU, which could expose Microsoft to legal or regulatory issues.

It's not that Microsoft was against this, it's that Microsoft was against themselves getting in trouble for this with the EU.

by danudey

5/11/2026 at 9:08:44 PM

Well they did put in their contracts with the Israeli government that their services can't be used for mass surveilance which makes them slightly less evil than Google/Amazon.

by j_maffe