New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

5/3/2026 at 8:18:13 PM

The point is not just that he's blinded by the flag: He's boldly marching into the void, confident. "wrapped in the flag" is a great saying.

by ggm

5/3/2026 at 11:23:24 PM

> He's boldly marching into the void

into the void, or off the edge?

"off the edge" is a clear interpretation of the statue. "into the void" is a bit more of a stretch. IMHO.

But that's art for you. Everyone has their own take on it.

by ninjagoo

5/3/2026 at 11:37:26 PM

I guess “void” here is a bit more like a place you can’t even see (because of the flag).

by esjeon

5/4/2026 at 4:26:16 PM

I always knew returning void was a bad idea

by nickpeterson

5/4/2026 at 8:26:19 AM

I you fall off the edge, you might soon be confronted with the void (of death).

by rob74

5/3/2026 at 8:38:07 PM

Worse than a void because a void is not necessarily bad. Walking “off a cliff” rarely ends well.

by ua709

5/3/2026 at 10:26:16 PM

Agree, but that's what we know. The man in the statue is walking into a void from his perspective because he lacks knowledge of his true predicament and is blindly marching forward.

by freedomben

5/4/2026 at 11:29:18 AM

The position of the statue (notably the front foot) make it seem very much "walking unknowingly off the ledge of a tall pedestal" rather than marching into the void. I think there's a difference in that "marching into the void" can be seen as heroic, but unknowingly stepping off a ledge is generally seen as being stupid i.e. not using your senses to inform you about the world, but instead relying on nationalism (the flag) to guide you.

by ndsipa_pomu

5/4/2026 at 2:48:14 PM

Given that the flag bearer apparently walked on to the pillar, why wouldn't we suspect they can repeat the performance?

by erikerikson

5/5/2026 at 11:14:39 AM

Because by walking off the edge they will injure themselves.

by Timwi

5/4/2026 at 6:40:53 PM

I see that we have presumed the gender and age of this figure, or we’ve accepted the headline as definitive interpretation of it.

by ButlerianJihad

5/4/2026 at 7:49:30 PM

The figure is dressed as a traditional Western business/politician man. The person is also weighty - not at all slim - which is consistent with middle or old age.

Since that's all the info it gives us, it is acceptable to believe what we are shown is what we are "supposed to" see.

When Whistler paints one half of his mother's profile, I just naturally assume she has the other half of her body, too.

by IAmBroom

5/4/2026 at 3:30:44 PM

Death of the nation state?

by ismail

5/4/2026 at 1:41:54 PM

"It's never steered me wrong!"

by MisterTea

5/4/2026 at 11:36:06 AM

Imagine the torrent of wrath if it turned out to be the Palestinian flag.

by inglor_cz

5/3/2026 at 9:45:38 PM

[flagged]

by EnPissant

5/3/2026 at 10:10:50 PM

I have no idea what you're on about

by bogdan

5/3/2026 at 10:14:15 PM

He's suggesting that there are several flavors of blindness going around so if we're going to point fingers then we might start with ourselves.

by analog8374

5/3/2026 at 10:28:52 PM

...which is a blatant false equivalence, to be clear.

by danparsonson

5/4/2026 at 12:13:34 AM

I think it's a pretty good equivalence, actually. And pretty good advice. Passionate certainty should raise a red flag.

by analog8374

5/4/2026 at 12:55:36 AM

i find that passionate certainty can be a good thing in some cases, especially when someone really does know what they are talking about.

but fanaticism is more often a problem than not. fanatics tend to not really understand what they're talking about, or twist it to fit what they want it to be about.

> Fanaticism: Excessive enthusiasm, unreasoning zeal, or wild and extravagant notions, on any subject, especially religion, politics or ideology; religious frenzy.

note -- not talking about any particular "thing" here. just commenting about passion vs. fanaticism in general.

by dijksterhuis

5/4/2026 at 2:47:38 AM

I see a similar idea that often gets people talking past each other re: patriotism vs. nationalism

by kulahan

5/4/2026 at 12:55:02 PM

for me, and this is just me, if you have to shout about it then you’re possibly not doing patriotism.

by dijksterhuis

5/4/2026 at 12:19:54 AM

The equivalence between supporting the rights of oppressed minorities, and inciting violence towards foreigners, is a good one?

by danparsonson

5/4/2026 at 12:17:34 PM

A red flag that is blowing into your face? :P

by boxed

5/4/2026 at 4:46:54 AM

Matthew 7:3–5

I am not religious, but this quote keeps coming up... And people keep forgetting about it.

by lynx97

5/4/2026 at 12:25:33 PM

Keep going. Look at Matthew 7:6. "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you."

That is (in this context), don't bother trying to give truth (or even have a reasonable conversation) with those who simply will not listen. Zealots, shill, propagandists... it's like talking to a brick wall. If anyone has a technique for getting them to stop being a brick wall and start actually engaging with what you're saying, I'd like to know what it is.

You can call it "transmit only mode" (hat tip Patrick McClure). When you realize that the person you're talking to is in transmit only mode, you understand how the conversation is going to go if you continue it.

by AnimalMuppet

5/4/2026 at 1:52:49 PM

Yeah I was sorta thinking in that direction too.

First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye

by analog8374

5/5/2026 at 12:00:01 AM

Forgive me if I'm mischaracterising you but you seem to be not only reinforcing the false equivalence but in fact doubling down on it? That trans rights protesters are not only morally equivalent to nationalist protesters, but in fact, in some way more of a problem? A plank in the eye vs a mote of dust?

When I say 'false equivalence' in this context I don't mean 'nationalist protesters are all bad and trans rights protesters are all good'. Of course there are bad actors in the trans rights camp, people who are blinded by their own flag; likewise I'm sure there are well-intentioned and peaceful nationalists who are simply misinformed. I submit to you however that the number of, and danger presented by bad actors in the former camp is severely limited compared to the bad actors in the camp of people who hate foreigners and wish to see them expelled and/or commit violence against them. Even without comparing actual events, that would seem to be self-evident given the trans rights cause itself is centered around support and love for a group of people, and once you do compare actual events the difference is obvious. I've been in the presence of a nationalist rally once, and even as a cis white guy it was a scary thing. I would have absolutely no qualms whatsoever showing up to a trans rights march.

Do you really think the two are basically morally equivalent? That someone could not reasonably criticise rising and widespread nationalist hatred if they don't also, with the same vigour, also call out a handful of zealots aggressively pushing for acceptance and fair treatment?

As I said I totally accept I may have misunderstood you and/or the other commenters here, so please enlighten me if so.

by danparsonson

5/5/2026 at 5:14:40 AM

> given the trans rights cause itself is centered around support and love for a group of people

If only that were true. As a political project, it's mostly focused on abolishing the boundaries around single-sex spaces, and certainly in terms of rhetoric, mostly those boundaries used to safeguard women and girls.

Just look at the frequent threats of violence and death threats that women who speak out against this, such as JK Rowling, receive from trans ideological activists. This is not a movement of love and support.

> I've been in the presence of a nationalist rally once, and even as a cis white guy it was a scary thing. I would have absolutely no qualms whatsoever showing up to a trans rights march.

That's because you are male and you're not in disagreement with them. If you were female with "terf" views you would almost certainly feel differently. There are some dangerous, violent men who attend these marches, as is the case with the nationalist ones.

by pigclocks

5/6/2026 at 1:49:31 PM

> If only that were true. As a political project...

Equal rights for trans folks is a political project, eh? Who's the project manager? :)

> Just look at the frequent threats of violence and death threats that women who speak out against [equal rights for trans folks]

What reaction did you expect to someone advocating against equal rights? To someone advocating for unequal rights for people who are different? To someone fanning the flames of the frequent threats of violence and death threats received by the women who speak out for equal rights for trans folks?

You're familiar with Popper's Paradox of Tolerance? It would be counterproductive to expect folks to tolerate any and all intolerance, and it would be cruel gaslighting to expect the victims of abuse to be tolerant towards their persecutors.

by ImPostingOnHN

5/5/2026 at 3:40:01 AM

In this we are referring to the method of holding, not the thing held.

by analog8374

5/6/2026 at 12:13:53 PM

Replace foreigners with cis-men, and the situation stays the same. Radicalized people are the problem. Nationalist or trans, I dont care.

by lynx97

5/4/2026 at 1:19:25 PM

I think he meant the statue would be unchanged but the meaning of it would be.

by tim333

5/3/2026 at 8:22:35 PM

I think it's a reasonable statue. But does anyone else think it's a bit obvious, more so than his other work? Like there is no doubt on the meaning at all, it's all right there on the surface level.

by forgotusername6

5/3/2026 at 11:21:24 PM

Strong disagree. First, like many of the other comments mention, Banksy is known for being clever and witty, but not particularly subtle.

But more to the point, while you may think the meaning is a bit obvious, the fact that the flag is unadorned (which/whose flag is it?), and the man is unknown, makes me think this statue could be the ultimate Rorschach test. I'm sure there are tons of people thinking "Ha ha, this is the perfect commentary on all those idiot <people on the other side who I disagree with> wrapping themselves up in their ideology of <patriotism/social justice/cause du jour> as they march <some particular country/society/the world at large off a cliff>".

In other words, I'm guessing you probably felt the meaning was "obvious" because you filled in the blanks in the above madlibs-style statement in a way that feels obvious to you, and I think folks on "the other side" would probably fill in the blanks with the exact opposite notions in a way that feels "obvious" to them.

by hn_throwaway_99

5/3/2026 at 11:31:49 PM

The ambiguity - that this could apply to anyone, that people are so caught up in their belief of choice - is part of the obviousness, at least to me. I would expect more people to be aware of this, than to actually believe that it's talking about, say, Americans in particular.

by squigz

5/4/2026 at 5:05:57 AM

I do agree that it’s obvious in the way that you describe. But I still think it’s a point worth making—that it could apply to anyone. Because I don’t think that thought is likely to occur to a lot of people, regardless of their particular belief of choice. And that is a problem.

by usefulcat

5/4/2026 at 3:35:31 PM

> But I still think it’s a point worth making—that it could apply to anyone.

... anyone who engages in this behaviour, yes. Not anyone nor everyone does.

by vkou

5/4/2026 at 5:50:02 AM

One can’t say that proposition is obvious to the population at large. Else, “we” (as in Earth in 2026) would have very political dynamics. So maybe Banksy felt inclined to do a public service announcement.

by anon373839

5/4/2026 at 6:01:24 AM

> I would expect more people to be aware of this

You'd be very surprised.

by Pay08

5/4/2026 at 1:13:57 PM

if it was so obvious to most of us, we wouldn't be having this problem.

by buddhistdude

5/3/2026 at 11:50:15 PM

The flag is unadorned and I think you can extend your interpretation to include the proliferation of flags which have a minimal "history".

Banksy is from Bris'l which is sort of north Somerset (Somerset keeps on morphing faster than a sci-fi shapeshifter).

Cornwall has had a white cross on a black flag since 18something. Devon decided to adopt a black edged white cross on a green flag. I remember seeing Devon flag car stickers in the '80s - its a little older than that. Somerset now has ... a flag. Yellow and red I think.

No idea why because people can't decide what it is! The land itself knows exactly what and where it is but the political boundaries ebb and flow with the phases of the moon. Is Avon included ... what is Avon? Ooh, BANES - Somerset? Not today thank you. It goes on. Anyway, do Devon and Somerset and co really need a flag? No of course not.

What we really need is a Wessex flag, which will take over Mercia ... and a few other regional efforts ... and end up as a red cross on a white background. Then we could munge that with a couple of other flags and confuse the entire world with something called the Union Flag.

Then we can really get complicated ... hi Hawaii!

by gerdesj

5/4/2026 at 12:07:12 PM

> which is sort of north Somerset (Somerset keeps on morphing faster than a sci-fi shapeshifter).

The seats in parliament that represent it and the local authority structure have changed, of course, the same as everywhere else in the country, but the boundaries of Somerset have remained constant for a long time.

Bristol is absolutely not "North Somerset" as a general case (though certain suburbs do extend into Somerset counties, but on that basis Bristol is as much "South Gloucestershire").

> Ooh, BANES - Somerset? Not today thank you. It goes on.

Bath has always been in Somerset and "BANES" literally stands for "Bath and North East Somerset".

by jen20

5/4/2026 at 12:47:41 AM

> what is Avon?

Welsh for river.

by mootothemax

5/4/2026 at 10:52:18 AM

Hah TIL. So it's the river Welsh river on the English side of the Bristol channel.

I often feel like I would understand a lot more names if I bothered learning Welsh. It's pretty popular for made up climbing route names too, because Wales is so good for it I guess. Allegedly some of the classics in the Avon gorge are Welsh derived but I could never figure them out to be sure.

by tomxor

5/4/2026 at 11:42:08 AM

They're more likely Celtic words that live on in Welsh.

by ndsipa_pomu

5/4/2026 at 8:18:27 PM

It’s lovely isn’t it? There’re a good few of these things around: notably Torpenhow Hill (which killjoys dispute); and ones like Pendle Hill (which they don’t).

by mootothemax

5/5/2026 at 12:49:32 AM

There is also a nebulous region within England that might be called Avon, depending on the moon's phase and the price of loons.

There is a river Avon in England. Welsh at least (inst. celtae) has a noun for "river" which is "afon".

by gerdesj

5/6/2026 at 12:43:45 AM

Recommend looking up the pronunciation of that there afon :)

by mootothemax

5/4/2026 at 11:40:57 AM

The Welsh "afon" derives from the earlier Celtic "abona" meaning "river". Also related to the Celtic "afanc" which was some kind of aquatic monster.

by ndsipa_pomu

5/4/2026 at 8:26:40 PM

Makes sense given Welsh’s evolution from Britannic. Much to my shame, I only started visiting Wales in later life, and there’s really something in the language that grabs me quite deeply. Once I’ve got my Polish down to pat, I tell myself.

by mootothemax

5/4/2026 at 12:24:07 PM

You avon a chwerthin?

by Intermernet

5/4/2026 at 3:29:50 PM

Never considered that, but mentioning flags that have minimal "history" pushed me in a totally different direction about some modern political transnational movements lol.

by Nicook

5/4/2026 at 11:36:35 AM

Hard disagree that Bristol is North Somerset.

I'm often surprised that Bristol (a lefty city) is surrounded by very right-leaning areas, but I suppose that's the nature of a bubble. I don't think it makes a huge amount of sense to try to lump us in all together, at least politically.

As an aside, it still annoys me when websites put "Avon" as the county - it no longer exists and even the Post Office does this and they're the ones who should definitely know about it.

As far as flags go, I'm very much against the "flag-shaggers" who go around putting up England's St George Cross flag - most of the time, the flags are seen as threatening to minorities which is very much NOT the general Bristolian attitude. (I actually live in St George, Bristol, so somewhat ironic that I'm cross about that flag).

by ndsipa_pomu

5/3/2026 at 11:38:15 PM

I'm guessing most would assume this is about nationalists, and I don't think even the nationalists would imagine Banksy is on their side?

by throwaway894345

5/4/2026 at 4:46:27 PM

I'm tempted to agree, specifically because of the depicted flag waver. That person embodies the leadership of the status quo, and nationalism is a core component of that.

Flags are literally a statement of identity, but I think that comes in two distinct flavors:

1. The national flag which is planted in a state of ownership and assimilation 2. A protest flag to state to others that they are not alone in their protest.

I could be missing something but I think it is effectively this simple.

by pstuart

5/4/2026 at 1:10:02 AM

I think you'd be surprised. People interpret art how they want.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicians_who_oppose_Donald_Tr...

by gkoberger

5/4/2026 at 12:15:58 PM

There's nothing subtle about the things Banksy attacks either, in this case flag-shagging. Yes, he's about as subtle as a sledgehammer, but so what? We are definitively not living in an age of subtlety. Why should opposition be subtle when power isn't?

If anything, I'm more surprised Banksy didn't depict literal flag-shagging.

by vintermann

5/4/2026 at 1:28:18 AM

> the fact that the flag is unadorned (which/whose flag is it?), and the man is unknown, makes me think this statue could be the ultimate Rorschach test

This is part of what's obvious. The whole thing, including this oooh aahh Rorschach part, is obvious. It's thoughts that we all had in high school, and it is hack.

by arduanika

5/4/2026 at 4:58:48 AM

Lol, right now this comment declaring "the oooh aahh Rorschach part is obvious" is literally just below another comment declaring that the sculpture could only reasonably be interpreted as being anti-nationalist. So thanks for proving my point.

by hn_throwaway_99

5/4/2026 at 8:00:54 AM

That just means you're both wrong. "Its location - Waterloo Place, St James's - is an area designed to celebrate imperialism and military dominance in the 1800s", says the BBC. Banksy is from Bristol, where they threw a statue of a slave-trading philanthropist in the river. The statue is wearing a suit. It's not very interpretable. We can wonder whether it's about the Conservative party or the Reform party, but nobody's suggesting it represents Hamas or the CCP.

※ I admit that Xi Jinping wears a suit, but I'm still classifying that theory under "plausible deniability".

by card_zero

5/4/2026 at 2:56:09 PM

Every single comment that proudly declares "my interpretation is obviously the correct one and you other guys are wrong" only further serves to prove what an actual great piece of art this is. That is, it's art that makes you think and can be validly interpreted in many different ways, and more serves as a projection of the own viewer.

Who necessarily cares what the original design of Waterloo Place is for, it's also just a place in the center of London with lots of foot traffic, visibility and a ton of statues. Or that the place Banksy is from threw a statue into the river (that connection in particular is quite the stretch - are you saying all the things that happened in your home town are inherently reflections of you?).

The more I see people declare that their interpretation is "right" (just see the argument thread over whether right wing or left wing people are more likely to wrap themselves up in a flag), the more I think this is a pretty brilliant piece of art.

by hn_throwaway_99

5/5/2026 at 2:14:47 PM

That's not brilliant, and it's not important to art. It's more like clickbait.

The statue is blank because deliberate ambiguity is the arty thing to do, because provocation is supposed to be a praiseworthy aspect of art.

But it's paper-thin ambiguity, and ambiguity isn't praiseworthy anyway. Inexplicit meaning is praiseworthy, but that's something else. This statue just has a veneer to suggest that it might possibly be saying something other than what the artist obviously thinks, if you know all about him, as we do.

by card_zero

5/4/2026 at 1:32:50 AM

And yet here here we all are taking about it. Art is about inciting a response, and he’s done it. Whether we think he’s a hack or not is irrelevant - he has the world’s attention.

by leourbina

5/4/2026 at 4:00:06 AM

Gp said, "it's a hack"

You said, "Whether we think he's a hack", which fundamentally changes what is being discussed.

The only reason we're talking about this is because of Banksy. Not because it is a clever or "deep" piece. It's disappointingly surface level, and the fact that we're talking about that doesn't suggest otherwise.

by Petersipoi

5/4/2026 at 4:55:02 AM

> The only reason we're talking about this is because of Banksy.

Baloney. It's a guerilla sculpture put up in the center of London. My guess is we might be talking about it more if it were unsigned as a case of whodunnit.

But for me personally, I roll my eyes at all the ex-art students who always complain "it's a hack" for any piece of art that appeals to a wide audience and isn't some obnoxious 8-layers deep meaning. You literally see it all the time, and half the time it just strikes me as thinly-veiled jealousy, if not from the art student perspective than from the "I'm so much more sophisticated than the unwashed masses" perspective.

It happened on HN a few months ago in a post about Simon Berger, an artist who makes portraits with cracked glass. The artist has achieved relatively wide appeal, and many of the comments here were along the lines of "Meh, he's a talentless hack, he just stumbled along a 'cool' technique but the subjects are boring."

I'd have a lot more respect for folks that could just say "it's not my bag" and move on, rather than pretend they're so much more sophisticated than people who enjoy this art.

by hn_throwaway_99

5/4/2026 at 5:41:36 PM

This is slander! I am not an ex-art student! :)

I would agree that "it's not my bag" is a fine thing to say about some art gallery piece that fails to inspire you, but when a statue is foisted upon the public square, with possible state cooperation, we're allowed to criticize it. He has inserted it into the conversation.

Moreover, the main complaint about this statue isn't coming from some expert artiste perspective, saying that it's somehow unsophisticated as art. The complaint here is that it's making a truly banal political statement. The entire piece consists of making that statement, with little else to recommend it. (Indeed, most political art is hack, unless it's saying something really original or really well, and it's even worse when it tries to be cute about it.)

So here, the complaints are coming from everyday onlookers who might not be qualified artistically, but who are able to say which sorts of statements are tiresome and overplayed in the culture we all live in. We are all qualified to ask ourselves whether this predictable statement advances or degrades the conversation.

Anyhow, FWIW, I just looked up Simon Berger's portraits based on your comment, and I really like them. Thanks.

by arduanika

5/4/2026 at 5:25:21 PM

Thanks for drawing the distinction. For the record, I do not think Banksy is a hack (noun), and he has done good stuff in the past. I'm merely saying that this piece under discussion is hack (adjective).

by arduanika

5/4/2026 at 8:45:31 AM

Where does the "art is about inciting a response" theory originate from?

I went and looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_art but couldn't find it there. The "anti-essentialist" section is good, though, I think. It has Berys Gaut listing ten properties of art, all of which are nice-to-have but none of which are essential. Then if a piece ticks lots of boxes it's a shoo-in, but if it doesn't tick many of them you can argue about it.

Some of those involve eliciting some sort of response, but you could also have a decorative piece with this combo:

(i) aesthetic, (iv) complex, (v) meaningful, (vi) idiosyncratic, (vii) imaginative, (viii) skillful, (ix) art-shaped, (x) intentional

Which would be 8 out of 10, to which we could add "completely ignorable" and it could still be art. I don't see why attention-grabbing and provocation is important, and it certainly isn't sufficient on its own, plus it's irritating.

by card_zero

5/4/2026 at 7:53:11 PM

You are both entitled to your own definitions of "art".

by IAmBroom

5/5/2026 at 2:21:23 PM

Relativist.

It's an idea, it describes something real. We can all make our own guesses and our own assertions about what that is, and then we can critique them and try to make them agree. There's no point just saying "we can all think whatever we like about anything" and leaving it there.

by card_zero

5/4/2026 at 9:44:25 AM

I'm pretty sure the piece is a commentary on the recent phenomenon of people of a right-wing political orientation hanging up the England flag everywhere, to the consternation of local governments who have to spend money taking them down.

From a British perspective there's no ambiguity, flag shagging is a right-wing activity.

by zarzavat

5/4/2026 at 11:38:58 AM

Every single left-wing march flies a lot of flags as well, only they are different flags.

Political movements in general don't seem to be particularly immune to flag shagging, only the colors vary a lot.

But I am pretty sure that Banksy means right-wing flag worship as well. He is a master of "provocative conformism" and wouldn't produce anything that would get him into a real risk of controversy. His art is very fine-tuned to the sensibilities of the English and American chattering class; same recipe for success as Paul Krugman or Malcolm Gladwell.

by inglor_cz

5/4/2026 at 11:58:40 AM

Choosing a traditionally suited man as the standard bearer adds a formal banality to the blindness (to my eyes).

by carefulfungi

5/4/2026 at 12:07:34 PM

I suppose it's true that the left-wing equivalent is the Palestinian flag, or the centrist equivalent is the Ukrainian flag, however this usually comes in the form of a sticker or the odd flag flown from a house window here and there, rather than a row of flags hung from every lamp post on a street.

Quantity has quality all of its own. Although many different causes use flags for promotion, the obsession that certain elements of the English right have with the English flag is at a completely different level.

by zarzavat

5/4/2026 at 12:15:14 PM

Not in the UK, but I was surprised by the abundance of Palestinian flags in the Basque country, Spain, last year.

There were definitely places where you had 7-8 of them in your view while walking random streets.

by inglor_cz

5/4/2026 at 1:11:10 PM

Not surprising to me as much, given their separatist sentiments under the yoke of the fascist Franco not too long ago at all.

by datsci_est_2015

5/4/2026 at 12:23:33 PM

> the obsession that certain elements of the English right have with the English flag is at a completely different level.

You may want to check the obsession that people on the left have with the Palestinian flag. Any situation is good to show it off even when it has nothing to do with Palestine.

by mrighele

5/4/2026 at 10:00:38 AM

Is it? Most people I know who have flags proudly displayed are left wing and their flags are usually one of: the Palestinian flag, the ukrainian flag, the LGBT rainbow flag, or the trans flag.

by rjinman

5/4/2026 at 10:16:18 AM

He’s a British artist, the sculpture is in London and the phenomenon of raising of St George’s Cross on every lamppost on every roundabout is a recent initiative of the British right. Most people will be linking the statement of this sculpture to this activity.

(I’m more likely to see the white rose of the House of York in “opposition” to the flag shaggers than a rainbow or anything else, in my neck of the woods, but there’s only a few of these flying)

I do like the wider interpretation though, that any ideology can blind you.

by danw1979

5/4/2026 at 12:34:12 PM

I live in central London where the the statue is and I think can confidently say there are more other flags than St George cross ones.

Personally I kind of thought of Russia which is about the only lot marching off to war with Russian and Z flags all over.

The St George lot mostly just moan about immigrants.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 10:53:02 AM

[flagged]

by 21asdffdsa12

5/4/2026 at 10:56:27 AM

No, you were merely wrong.

by matthewmacleod

5/4/2026 at 3:40:09 PM

Allright, I'll bite. Could you tell me if there's any meaningful distinction between someone hanging a Ukranian flag and a... Russian Federation flag? Circa 2026, do those flags stand for something, when hanging outside of either of those countries?

If they do, what do they stand for, and what would someone hanging one, versus the other, be communicating?

by vkou

5/4/2026 at 7:14:37 PM

It’s amazing how everyone thinks this sculpture’s message doesn’t apply to them. “My side’s flags are different, it’s the other side’s flags that are bad”. So many people here making this argument. It’s beyond parody, yet really so predictable. Amazing lack of self awareness. I thought this place was more rational than Reddit, but apparently not!

by rjinman

5/5/2026 at 12:17:14 PM

> It’s amazing how everyone thinks this sculpture’s message doesn’t apply to them. “My side’s flags are different, it’s the other side’s flags that are bad”

The sculpture's message isn't "flags are bad" - it's using a flag as a metaphor for nationalism/blind patriotism (based on the rest of the statue, the location chosen, what it's a response to, and Banksy's other works).

by Ukv

5/4/2026 at 10:30:54 AM

[flagged]

by rjinman

5/4/2026 at 11:54:07 AM

(What you call an "objective fact" here is - as you say - your report of your personal experience. Everyone else would probably use a word more like "subjective".)

by Smaug123

5/4/2026 at 12:19:30 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cewnwgnqj2qo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Trans%2B_Pride

I'm seeing a lot of flags.

by boxed

5/4/2026 at 1:14:35 PM

Can’t help but notice the difference in sentiment between the flag that represents a people and a flag that represents a nation, especially historically.

by datsci_est_2015

5/4/2026 at 1:26:05 PM

Hmm? Which is which? Is this one of those British things people from normal countries don't understand? Like the difference between United Kingdom and Great Britain.

by boxed

5/4/2026 at 2:38:26 PM

Glad you asked!

Perhaps I should have used the term “sovereign state”, as that’s more precise, even though when most people use the colloquial term “nation” (as in “nationalism”) they’re referring to a sovereign state.

A sovereign state has borders they can enforce to their own discretion (political gridlock notwithstanding), a stable and well-defined (non-transient) population, a single recognized government (both internally and externally), and ability to conduct foreign relations without being stopped by force or decree.

So, with that more precise definition out of the way, you can recognize that the flags in your links do not represent sovereign states, but rather peoples - who, coincidentally, are often fighting for their rights and freedoms.

Elsewhere in the thread are mentions of nation flags, like the Union Jack, which represent a sovereign state, and are instead often associated with national identity, xenophobia and oppression.

Hope that helps!

by datsci_est_2015

5/5/2026 at 5:06:05 AM

Yea but that falls apart on even a slight poke.

Who is trans? Anyone who identifies as trans.

Who is British? Anyone who identifies as British.

There's not a lot of difference there. Citizenship COULD be used, but now you're talking about two different domains of language. A person who is British but now has an American citizenship, still talks with a British accent and identifies as British is still British. The same way a trans person with XY is still a woman if she identifies as a women, even though that person is also a male in another domain of speech.

Humans who identify as "humans, not animals" are just stupid and wrong in the scientific domain of speech, but absolutely correct and reasonable in the colloquial domain of speech.

by boxed

5/5/2026 at 5:48:27 PM

I’m not following your argument at all, could you try to word it differently?

The distinction I’m drawing is that flags that represent peoples are usually more ideologically pure: people seeking justice or rights. They may be co-opted over time by more actors who deviate from the original intention (e.g. Gadsden Flag).

Nation flags, on the other hand, are by definition exclusionary towards an outgroup that exists by legal distinction. In the historical record, nationalism rarely works out well for anyone who sits outside the definition of a nation. Nationalism is a useful tool during wartime, especially during the early years of a nation (e.g. colonial revolutions) or when facing an existential threat (e.g. Ukraine), but it’s an ideological debt that may end up being paid by future generations when someone comes along and wraps themselves and their ideology in the flag and paints their opposition as “unamerican”, for example.

Is your point that all flags have the same ideological utility no matter what they represent? Or is your point not talking about flags at all and instead focusing on the difference between “sovereign state” and “nation”?

by datsci_est_2015

5/6/2026 at 5:42:35 AM

> Nation flags, on the other hand, are by definition exclusionary towards an outgroup that exists by legal distinction

I did notice how extremely specific that was. Because the current LGBTQ+ grouping have been quite exclusionary towards even LGB for quite some time now. Your point that they can be coopted is something I absolutely agree with.

> In the historical record, nationalism rarely works out well for anyone who sits outside the definition of a nation.

"What did the Romans ever do for us?". Pax Americana has been ENORMOUSLY beneficial for billions of people starting in 1943 arguably. And obviously the Roman Empire was followed by the Dark Ages. You're cherry picking.

> Is your point that all flags have the same ideological utility no matter what they represent?

I think my original point when posting that there's a lot of flag waving on the left, is that... well.. the post before that claimed there isn't which is just wrong. Now I would say that my point is that ALL movements/nations/corporations/whatever are co-optable. There's absolutely no difference between nations or movements.

It's not a left vs right thing. It never was. People who say it are are historically ignorant, naive, willfully ignorant, or a combination of those. "Right" and "left" are pretty much meaningless anyway. We have to look at individual movements, people, policies, and actions individually without falling back to our own group identity to judge the moral character of the thing.

I've seen people claim that since "the left" were right about women's rights, then it must be ok whatever "the left" is doing now because historically "the left" is always on the right side of history. Just ignoring the 100+ million dead from communism.

by boxed

5/4/2026 at 2:53:46 PM

Your first comment was subjective in general, and suspiciously pro-right anti-left - in my opinion.

You could have left it at that.

Instead you decided on an emotional outburst due to being downvoted by "idiots" - giving us all an absolute textbook example of "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt".

Thanks!

by EB-BarringtonII

5/3/2026 at 8:35:56 PM

Not sure we think of Banksy as being particularly subtle. Innovative and impactful, sure - but the message is usually quite clear, no?

by tene80i

5/3/2026 at 9:12:33 PM

It's always been about as subtle as a sledge hammer

by morkalork

5/3/2026 at 9:39:02 PM

He started with literally graffiti. So sure - not subtle!!

by EGreg

5/4/2026 at 12:15:21 AM

Not gonna lie, I am not sure how the choice of medium here (graffiti) has anything to do with how subtle (or not) the message of an art piece is.

by filoleg

5/4/2026 at 12:25:32 AM

There's a well known theory on this exact concept! The Medium is the Message. Or, the very act of defacing a public building is meant to sledge-hammer the artist's work into the viewer's consciousness. Compared to say, some quiet exhibit most people would never encounter.

by morkalork

5/4/2026 at 7:34:53 AM

You are not supposed to get any attention and you are not supposed to have any say in how the city and the world looks. If you buy the building you still don't get to paint.

To deface it would first have to have a face.

by econ

5/3/2026 at 10:10:25 PM

Our first exposure to Banksy was when we were hitting puberty. We probably thought they were subtle back then.

by ares623

5/4/2026 at 5:03:42 AM

Not everyone on HN is still in their 20s.

by brewdad

5/4/2026 at 7:14:14 AM

Banksy has been active since the 90s, definitely already famous in the 00s

by usrnm

5/4/2026 at 8:38:55 AM

As shown by this savage Charlie Brooker takedown: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/sep/22/arts.v...

by foldr

5/4/2026 at 12:39:12 PM

>Renegade urban graffiti artist Banksy is clearly a guffhead of massive proportions, yet he's often feted as a genius straddling the bleeding edge of now. Why? Because his work looks dazzlingly clever to idiots. And apparently that'll do.

- Creator of Black Mirror, 5 years before series premiere

by finnthehuman

5/4/2026 at 10:17:17 AM

This reads more puerile and jealous than savage.

It's got just the right mix of highbrow disdain, unironic self righteousness and naughty language to titillate the average guardian reader though.

by pydry

5/4/2026 at 11:35:48 AM

Well yes, but so does Banksy :)

(Also, if you're familiar with Charlie Brooker's output, he's not really a 'highbrow' type. He started out in games journalism.)

by foldr

5/4/2026 at 4:23:38 PM

Im familiar with who he is. At the time his claim to fame was coming up with Nathan Barley, which is why I suspected there was more than a little jealousy there.

He got more famous and acclaimed since black mirror.

by pydry

5/4/2026 at 5:58:29 PM

I get the jealously part, but the highbrow part seems off to me. Brooker has always shown much more interest in distinctly lowbrow art forms such as video games. I don't think he is sneering at Banksy because he thinks we should be looking at the paintings of the Old Masters instead.

by foldr

5/5/2026 at 11:42:15 AM

Right but he knows guardian readers think that and he's pandering to their snobbery with his comments about Banksy rolling around in the pop culture mud.

At the same time it's painfully obvious it riled him up being a more obscure and less famous equivalent of banksy.

by pydry

5/3/2026 at 8:38:02 PM

I don't think most of his work is trying for subtle? First thing that came to mind: "Slave Labour" is pretty obvious, it's a kid operating a sewing machine to make Union flags and it was painted on an actual pound shop. Were you unsure of the message? Even something like "Silent Majority" isn't difficult, the comic book "V for Vendetta" makes the exact same point just Banksy painted it as a mural.

by tialaramex

5/4/2026 at 12:01:56 AM

Pound shop == dollar store

I suppose I should've figured that one out.

by ChoGGi

5/4/2026 at 1:29:59 PM

Pound being a verb rather than a noun in much of the English speaking world is a reasonable excuse for not seeing that meaning instantly

by adaml_623

5/4/2026 at 10:05:43 AM

Its because we have the metric system over here

by blitzar

5/4/2026 at 10:07:47 AM

Americans manage a further level of confusion by referring to the "pound sign" as #, rather than £, which isn't in US-ASCII nor on the US-102 keyboard layout.

by pjc50

5/4/2026 at 11:29:03 AM

You have to go to Amsterdam for the hash shop

by blitzar

5/5/2026 at 12:50:35 PM

Good point, historically British currency wasn't decimal. "Decimal Day" in which the pound was divided into 100 new pennies happened just a few years before I was born. So I grew up with the physical coins often still denominated in shillings or old (pre-decimal) pence, but knowing (since it was true from before I'd been born) what their actual value was in the only currency system I had ever experienced, so e.g. I see a shilling, I know it's actually 5 new pence. By the time I was a teenager there were very few actual shillings in circulation and lots of new 5p coins and then the coins were deliberately reduced in size anyway, obviously if you still had a shilling it was now obsolete because it was the wrong size.

My mother grew up with the currency around her not being decimal but by her teens the government were explicitly warning that this was coming and she learned that e.g. a pound has 100 new pence in school ready for a career where this would soon go from theory to practice, when she finished school the poster campaigns were running IIRC.

by tialaramex

5/3/2026 at 10:01:12 PM

> "in September 2025, Banksy painted a mural on the Royal Courts of Justice depicting a judge bludgeoning a protester with a gavel"

His other works aren't subtle.

by EMM_386

5/3/2026 at 8:30:41 PM

it gets people talking which many of those who like it consider to be the primary point. In other words, it's not great public art, it's basically government approved engagement bait or engineered pro-establishment viral messaging and it's very successful at that! (but it doesn't inspire and elevate that art should aspire to)

by thinkingemote

5/3/2026 at 8:39:07 PM

> engineered pro-establishment viral messaging

I don’t understand this. What speaks pro-establishment in this piece?

by nickthegreek

5/3/2026 at 10:09:50 PM

It was installed in the middle of a street owned by the government. Police are guarding it to prevent vandalism or removal. Both the Westminster City Council and the Mayor of London have praised the statue and called for it to be preserved.[1][2]

If the man holding the flag had been wearing a thawb instead of a suit, or if the statue had been of a woman, I think the establishment's response would be quite different.

1. From https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y9wlnwl85o "We're excited to see Banksy's latest sculpture in Westminster, making a striking addition to the city's vibrant public art scene. While we have taken initial steps to protect the statue, at this time it will remain accessible for the public to view and enjoy."

2. From https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/world/europe/banksy-londo... "Banksy has a great ability to inspire people from a range of backgrounds to enjoy modern art. His work always draws great interest and debate, and the mayor is hopeful that his latest piece can be preserved for Londoners and visitors to enjoy."

by chroma

5/3/2026 at 10:56:42 PM

The area it's installed in is famous for sculptures of figures that served the British Empire, generally in combat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_St_James...

It's not exactly subtle. A man goose stepping while blinded by a flag is a contrast to the other military figures portrayed in victorious poses.

by jjmarr

5/4/2026 at 7:47:41 AM

> If the man holding the flag had been wearing a thawb instead of a suit, or if the statue had been of a woman, I think the establishment's response would be quite different.

That's argumentum ad speculum[0]. You can speculate what the response would be if the statue was different in a way you imagine, but the thing is, it's not.

[0]: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Hypothe...

by druskacik

5/3/2026 at 8:49:11 PM

If one can read this as pro-establishment, it's proof that the the art is indeed not so obvious as suggested above :)

by teekert

5/4/2026 at 10:14:27 AM

I would like people to be clearer what they mean by "establishment" here, because that sort of person tends to think of a stockbroker who went to Dulwich as "anti-establishment".

by pjc50

5/3/2026 at 10:07:54 PM

In the UK the establishment is generally unsettled by the display of the English flag.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/29/uk/st-george-flag-england...

by pirate787

5/3/2026 at 11:14:37 PM

Regional chauvinism is never good for a healthy union. Even if it were the Union Jack, flag-shaggers are almost always blood and soil zealots.

by overfeed

5/4/2026 at 1:03:36 AM

I think a small level of it is fine. It’s like sports teams. You can be a Giants fan and I can be a Yankees fan, and we’ll bicker & make fun of each other for supporting a different team. But we can still work together & be civil when it comes to lots of other stuff.

by chroma

5/4/2026 at 9:08:43 AM

I disagree here. Local/regional chauvinism is funny and de-dramatize nationalism while being a very good point to start discussions. Seeing the Gwenn ah Du flag in the US or in other foreign country is basically a "come talk to me" call.

by orwin

5/4/2026 at 11:59:57 AM

There are different sorts of regional chauvinism though: a distinction can be drawn between English flags erected in random US states by people who want to talk about their ancestors in the 1750s, English flags flown alongside the local coat of arms on tourist sites all over the UK, English flags hanging from English homes by all over England because of excitement for an upcoming football tournament and English flags surreptitiously hung on council property by far-right thugs who attack council staff tasked with removing them, on the basis of internet memes about needing more flags to show those immigrants who's boss. England has all of the above, but that last one has dominated flag erections recently.

As for Banksy who incidentally also likes making surreptitious additions to other people's property, he's never exactly been subtle about which school of politics he doesn't like

by notahacker

5/4/2026 at 1:33:46 PM

The statue in particular I think is not bad as art. Certainly it had a lot of people looking at it - a hundred of so when I visited, more than most public art. I thought it more inspiring as in suggesting rising above nationalism than most of the other statues in the area which mostly are of are general types who got the position by being born in the right class and fame by telling troops to kill people.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 3:58:19 AM

The best art makes you think and/or feel, and engage with it in a personal way.

There's nothing about subtly in that claim, and all forms of art are equally valid, if not the same quality.

Bansky's art has always been blunt and whimsical, probably because he makes popular street art. It's meant to be "accessible" for your average passerby who might only engage with it for a fraction of a second, but maybe get a little surprise when they do.

by nutjob2

5/4/2026 at 3:21:05 AM

I think the sheer number of people below arguing it might not be about nationalism shows this sort of "Obvious" direct work may still be needed.

by kimixa

5/4/2026 at 10:03:37 AM

> I think the sheer number of people below arguing

That says more about "the people below" on HN to me. There's a strong strand of contrarian, pseudo-intellectual sophistry. I.e. it's "clever" to talk yourself out of seeing the obvious.

by SideburnsOfDoom

5/3/2026 at 8:37:25 PM

I think a good old fashined "we are all fucked" is warranted now and again.

It's also referencing the recent flag controversies in the UK over the past year.

by Jtarii

5/4/2026 at 9:11:42 AM

In what world is Banksy supposed to be subtle?

Did you look at his artwork of a judge hitting a protestor with a gavel while the protestor was bleeding on the ground and think “huh, I wonder what this means” (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2z30p033ro).

By those standards a man wrapped in the flag walking off the edge is the height of subtlety. I guarantee you this - none of the people it should be offending will realise he’s talking about them.

by testdelacc1

5/3/2026 at 10:17:43 PM

Have you seen the state of the world? Why would you go through the trouble of being subtle nowadays?

by BoggleOhYeah

5/3/2026 at 8:29:13 PM

Certainly in America but all over the west, people are significantly less capable of media literacy. Sometimes the obvious needs to be said.

by wand3r

5/3/2026 at 9:57:21 PM

> Certainly in America but all over the west, people are significantly less capable of media literacy.

Not sure if you are serious, but my experience is the exact opposite…

by kergonath

5/4/2026 at 2:26:27 PM

This is the stupidest, most isolationist thing I've ever read on here.

by folgoris

5/3/2026 at 8:31:41 PM

> there is no doubt on the meaning at all

Which flag? Or, what kind of flag? Or does it matter?

by tbrownaw

5/3/2026 at 10:00:17 PM

It does not matter. Any ideology can be followed blindly to one’s ruin. Nationalism is common, but there are others.

by kergonath

5/3/2026 at 9:26:10 PM

Flags overwhelmingly represent nations, groups considering themselves nations, that were nations or have some kind of individual governmental status.

If you asked 100 people to imagine a particular flag to attach to that statue, 95% of them are going to be current, unrecognized, or former states.

by MattGaiser

5/3/2026 at 9:43:45 PM

"The LGBTQIA flag obviously"

"It's clearly the national flag"

by indy

5/3/2026 at 10:43:39 PM

Yes?

by actionfromafar

5/4/2026 at 12:03:09 AM

Whatever flag binds/blinds you.

by ChoGGi

5/4/2026 at 8:44:21 AM

Or, on the other side of it, you can imagine it's the flag of some group you dislike, one you think is full of ideologues.

by kelnos

5/3/2026 at 10:02:42 PM

I’d say what matters is whether it matters to you. What difference does it make in the outcome?

by Ancapistani

5/3/2026 at 9:40:57 PM

the kind that flag shaggers shag

by blitzar

5/3/2026 at 10:57:53 PM

Why could it not mean multiple flags at once?

by Findecanor

5/3/2026 at 8:45:07 PM

It is universal. The flag, the state, the man. Details don't matter.

by wartywhoa23

5/3/2026 at 10:36:12 PM

In the context of UK politics, and given Banksy's previous socio-political work, this statue is probably a response to 'the nationalists': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raise_the_Colours

by ignoramous

5/4/2026 at 10:55:47 AM

Which are not very nationalists nowadays. Its mostly "we want to keep western values and culture".. which now is high treason i guess..

by 21asdffdsa12

5/4/2026 at 12:04:16 PM

It's mostly about dismissing most of modern Western culture as "woke nonsense" whilst demonstrating fealty to the idea of it by showing they hate foreign cultures even more...

by notahacker

5/4/2026 at 2:51:37 AM

Have you seen his other works in recent years? It's hard to get any more obvious than a judge beating up someone with his gavel or a boy judo throwing Putin.

It's not like Banksy is known for being a sophisticated highfalutin MFA student anyway. Like it or not, appealing to the masses with simple and clear moral messages has always been his deal.

by pibaker

5/4/2026 at 1:12:32 AM

If you want to make a political message it often helps to be obvious. This way the meaning of your message will not be misinterpreted either intentionally or un-intentionally.

by hristov

5/4/2026 at 1:30:25 AM

His messages were always the same politically. He was always snubbing his nose at the crown, at the art world and other rich folks who would pay millions of pounds for his art. Back in the day when I discovered him, he came off as a rebel, as most graffiti writers do.

Now? He makes millions off his work while still thumbing his nose at capitalism? Doesn't ring the same any more. You can't claim to be fighting against the same system that you use to make millions.

by at-fates-hands

5/4/2026 at 5:48:25 AM

> You can't claim to be fighting against the same system that you use to make millions.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-som...

There really is no winning when you become famous. When people liked you before and you are effectively still the same but just richer they call you part of the problem, if you aren't richer people just don't know you and you most likely arent actually famous. Usually money follows the fame and vice versa (unless you specifically use your money to remain anonymous).

by NekkoDroid

5/4/2026 at 1:34:50 AM

> You can't claim to be fighting against the same system that you use to make millions.

You absolutely can though. This is a false dichotomy.

by solenoid0937

5/4/2026 at 8:48:10 AM

> You can't claim to be fighting against the same system that you use to make millions.

It depends on what you do with that money, no?

I'll be one of the first to agree that most rich people have likely gotten where the are by doing at least some immoral or unethical things, and that many of those people try to whitewash their image with philanthropy. But there certainly exist rich people who got there as ethically as one can in this world, and use that money to try to change things.

Sure, there are many fewer of the latter people than the former, but I think it's unfair to automatically assume that "made some money" = "part of the system".

by kelnos

5/4/2026 at 4:38:36 AM

If you're rich, you can't slag off your ilk because that makes you a hypocrite, and if you're poor, you're just envious. And if you're threading the narrow path inbetween, well that just makes you bourgie so in summary: get fucked. Convenient. Of course, this only works in one direction...

by moogly

5/4/2026 at 11:34:05 AM

> You can't claim to be fighting against the same system that you use to make millions.

What makes you think so? I think it depends on what happens to the money extracted from the system. Do we know how Banksy uses it?

by master-lincoln

5/4/2026 at 9:18:46 AM

You can absolutely play within the rules to your advantage, while also vocally and electorally work for changing those rules (for both the better or the worse). Whether one way is the good and the other the bad can of course be discussed.

Example: "I'm rich and think I should pay more in taxes because I have it more than good enough" vs "I'm rich and think that I'm already paying too much in taxes". Neither is inconsistent or hypocritical.

Other example: "I got rich by extracting more from my workers than was justifiable compared to what they produced, and that should probably be regulated" vs "I got rich by providing value I got paid for, and created a lot of jobs, and we should have less regulation so I could do more of it".

by croon

5/4/2026 at 3:24:37 PM

You're talking about a man who did a Simpsons intro that depicted the Simpsons behind the scenes as involving child labor, kittens thrown into a woodchipper, an enslaved panda, and various other atrocities, all in a dark compound with guard towers surrounded by barbed wire.

Banksy is sometimes interesting but he and subtle don't belong on the same planet.

by wat10000

5/3/2026 at 9:53:05 PM

He's always been one to land a one-liner, or just a punch line.

Sadly, in this day and age, that simple one-punch obvious meaning is just what's needed.

by LightBug1

5/3/2026 at 8:29:23 PM

Well the problems it's referencing are glaringly obvious as well, and yet so many people still refuse to acknowledge them.

by mindslight

5/4/2026 at 10:57:04 AM

> But does anyone else think it's a bit obvious, more so than his other work

I have no idea what it is supposed to mean.

by TiredOfLife

5/4/2026 at 7:21:51 AM

Maybe more that it's an obvious idea than an obvious message?

by prawn

5/3/2026 at 9:31:02 PM

it's less than mediocre art. Using the following statue from Temu for vandalism would be a stronger art statement: https://www.temu.com/1pc-3d-printed-bride-sculpture-elegant-...

by seydor

5/4/2026 at 4:32:47 PM

Do we stop talking about the Jewish holocaust because, well isn't it obvious that genocide is bad?

If we don't remind ourselves of these situations to be aware of we can easily get mired in our daily lives and forget these important matters. It becomes easy to ignore. Especially if the bad stuff does not effect you. If one becomes complacent, one becomes part of the problem in the hope the problem won't come after them.

This same thing goes for anything that needs to stick whether its programming, therapy, or playing a musical instrument. The more you practice something the more it sticks.

by MisterTea

5/4/2026 at 1:27:59 PM

I appreciate that it allows people to engage with and discuss the work without immediately feeling boxed out by pretentious poppycock.

I also think obviousness is overindexed as the indicator of bad art because it's often the easiest property to articulate about something thoroughly bad. A lot of the tv and movies that make me quote the robot devil ("You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!") would not be improved by making the characters subtler. They could be the same level, or even more forthcoming, if the writing sounded like natural conversations real people have.

by finnthehuman

5/3/2026 at 8:26:18 PM

Yes doesn’t feel very innovative

by zeroonetwothree

5/3/2026 at 8:38:48 PM

Do know know of any “prior art”, so to speak?

by vscode-rest

5/4/2026 at 2:12:08 PM

Banksy's whole thing is obvious, faux-brave work. Didn't you know war bad?

by some_random

5/4/2026 at 12:46:47 AM

[dead]

by aaron695

5/3/2026 at 8:54:06 PM

[dead]

by dahdum

5/3/2026 at 9:21:22 PM

[dead]

by kibwen

5/3/2026 at 9:44:16 PM

[dead]

by lukebechtel

5/3/2026 at 11:32:22 PM

all his work is slop. No difference here...

by kiney

5/3/2026 at 8:58:29 PM

I have the same reaction to Banksy, and figure he and his audience just have to be in on the joke? I can’t discount there’s some layered irony going on in conversation between the artist and the intellectual / capitalist / trend-setting elite that are his effective patrons.

“I remember when all this was trees” [1] is maybe the best example. Detroit hasn’t been “trees” in something like two centuries. Platitudes doused in treacle.

[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/01/ba...

by twoodfin

5/4/2026 at 12:03:28 AM

A better example of a knowing joke between artist and establishment would be the auction of a Banksy work on paper poised above and within the jaws of a paper shredder .. that was then half shredded on the fall of the hammer and sale.

For clarity, the shredder was part of the work and the sale was of the half destroyed piece along with shredder and chaff.

by defrost

5/4/2026 at 11:49:54 PM

Considering that line is supposed to be written by a young child in-context (who couldn't actually "remember" anything more than a decade earlier, I'm pretty confident the intent was not to reference the actual recent history of urban deforestation in Detroit. So this attempt to fact-check the art doesn't actually work at all here.

Off the top of my head, I'd guess the message is closer to an observation about being disconnected from history in the modern world leading to vaguely defined feelings of angst and alienation.

by toraway

5/3/2026 at 9:56:22 PM

This one definitely lacks ambition compared to other works. Probably because his other work had a subversive undertone, this one seems sponsored by the powers that be. I also suspect it was installed with cooperation from the local authorities.

by ungreased0675

5/3/2026 at 10:28:20 PM

I think you took a wildly different interpretation of this art than I did.

by fooqux

5/4/2026 at 8:56:34 AM

It’s not the art itself in a vacuum. If you’re familiar with British politics right now, especially around flags, it provides important context.

by ungreased0675

5/3/2026 at 10:04:26 PM

The “powers that be” hate ideology?

by BoggleOhYeah

5/4/2026 at 3:41:06 PM

Rather than try to score points for team X (or against team Y), I'll quote one of my favs. Please generalize as needed to suite your perspective.

  "I don't get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded." -George Carlin

by mr-wendel

5/4/2026 at 7:38:11 PM

that's a good quote. I have to say though, despite the appeal of "rejecting 'tribalism' ", it is (or should be) "undeniable" that some "tribes" are "better" than others. There are reasons literally nobody wants to go to North Korea and people all over the world want to "flee" to countries that are meritocracies and support ideas like freedom of speech, women's rights, freedom of religion, etc. "Nobody" would claim (anymore) that "life is 'better' in countries that still have slaves".

Modern Slavery Stats:

1. Asia and the Pacific: ~29.3 million (6.8 per 1000 ppl)

2. Africa: ~7.0 million (5.2 per 1000)

3. Europe and Central Asia: ~6.4 million (6.9 per 1000)

4. Americas: ~5.1 million (5 per 1000)

5. Arab States: ~1.7 (10.1 per 1000 [highest] )

https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/

by EchoReflection

5/4/2026 at 9:17:18 PM

That's like arguing that yes we should use knives, because some knives are better than others. Whether some are better is irrelevant - what matters is they're useful. Those without a nation, without a group identity, are outcompeted by those with one. The person preaching individualism in a team sport is either incredibly ignorant, or simply malicious.

It also discounts the value of groups, absent concerns about competition. No man is an island, and the society you grow up in, the people you grow up with, greatly affect who you become and what your life is like. To say it doesn't matter who you live around discards all that, or reveals the profound mistake (or lie) of thinking who makes up a society doesn't affect what the society is like.

by like_any_other

5/4/2026 at 9:51:21 PM

In the developed world we have 'energy slaves' instead; around 100 per person in the USA in the 2020's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_slave

This is arguably the reason why the Overton window has shifted towards the rejection of human slavery over the last century or so, with the growth of fossil fuel use.

Human slavery will thus likely swing back into fashion again in the future as oil, coal and natural gas run out.

by briansm

5/5/2026 at 11:12:09 AM

> Human slavery will thus likely swing back into fashion again in the future as oil, coal and natural gas run out.

There must be some other solution, surely! If only we could somehow find some other source of energy...

by throwuxiytayq

5/4/2026 at 5:32:42 PM

There are two kinds of people: The symbol-minded, and the symbol-minded who think they are not.

by weregiraffe

5/4/2026 at 4:34:51 PM

Yep, they're a symbol. When my mom's loved one was overseas, they meant a lot. Symbols are powerful af.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDfGblfOsZ4

by _DeadFred_

5/4/2026 at 4:56:29 PM

True that, and therein lies the difficulty in generalizing. No clue what the exact situation is here (Vietnam, perhaps?), but at the human-to-human level I'm glad for it and hope it brought her strength.

by mr-wendel

5/4/2026 at 6:02:22 PM

The really interesting thing in the UK is that both team X and team Y absolutely love flags - the right loves putting up English flags in town, the left loves protesting with Palestine and occasional Hamas or Hezbollah flags.

by nailer

5/3/2026 at 8:24:13 PM

I misparsed this headline as

(Statue (of a man (blinded by a flag (put up by Banksy)))) in central London

It is intended to be

((Statue (of a man (blinded by a flag))) (put up by Banksy)) in central London

by schoen

5/3/2026 at 8:40:37 PM

The actual headline is more coherent but I'm not too fond of it either.

You really don't see any good ol' fashioned short and sweet headlines that read best to the ear in a Mid-Atlantic accent anymore.

by tolerance

5/3/2026 at 8:46:34 PM

Banksy erects central London statue of man blinded by flag, maybe?

by vscode-rest

5/3/2026 at 11:35:00 PM

"BANKSY'S NO PATRIOT—SO SAYS NEW STATUE"

by tolerance

5/4/2026 at 6:27:12 AM

> Banksy erects central London statue of man

It's an offence against public decency however you slice it!

by petesergeant

5/4/2026 at 7:49:47 AM

New statue in London. Banksy, maybe.

by pnt12

5/4/2026 at 9:40:48 AM

For Youtube: No one knows TERRIBLE message behind statue that suddenly appeared. Until NOW.

by rapnie

5/3/2026 at 9:19:51 PM

I was like, that's horrible how did this flag cause someone to go blind... Did it like fall on the guy when Banksy was putting it up? oh. duh...

by saltyoldman

5/3/2026 at 9:26:35 PM

Things were more fun when they were actually transgressive and not just the established doctrine of those in power.

by declan_roberts

5/3/2026 at 9:45:07 PM

Yeah. The safety of the message is underwritten by its state sanction.

by _hark

5/4/2026 at 11:42:52 AM

In what way is this statue state sanctioned?

by monooso

5/4/2026 at 9:23:07 PM

In addition to the other explanations (it's in the heart of London and not being removed), it's also advancing the government position of deconstructing national identity (for Britons): https://britainmagazine.co.uk/diversity-built-britain-50p/

by like_any_other

5/4/2026 at 1:04:59 PM

It's on display in downtown London dude. Also who do you think paid for it?

by declan_roberts

5/4/2026 at 1:52:59 PM

It was erected surreptitiously in the dead of night. That does not imply state approval.

As for who paid for it, I don't know, possibly the extremely successful and wealthy artist who created it.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, by all means present it.

by monooso

5/5/2026 at 12:29:39 PM

Anecdote, a close family member of mine is a director of arts for a very large city in the US. They typically install/uninstall at night - she's told me this is especially important with cultural or otherwise edgy pieces.

by Shocka1

5/4/2026 at 2:33:09 PM

It not being taken down yet implies state approval (4 days now?). It's on Pall Mall ffs, right near a statue of a King

It's not like the wealthiest city in the UK is lacking in resources to do something about it.

by gib444

5/4/2026 at 1:54:33 PM

It's not government funded or planned. Although the establishment seems to like it unlike that one on the law courts.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 12:34:21 PM

Banksy was never subtle, but this one is extraordinarily ham-fisted. Very meme-able though.

by MrBuddyCasino

5/4/2026 at 3:13:43 AM

If this was the established doctrine of those in power, then why is the Iran war still going on, and why is the UK providing air bases for the Iran war? This is obviously a comment on the Iran war.

by hristov

5/4/2026 at 9:02:38 AM

Given the timing, seems more related to domestic politics.

by samsin

5/3/2026 at 11:07:36 PM

I have a hardhat, high viz vest, lanyard, and $600 toolbelt because I'm an industrial electrician, but they get me into a lot. My face becomes invisible; I become "The Electrician".

by CapitalistCartr

5/4/2026 at 2:56:29 PM

A while ago I read about Todd Lappin making his personal car look like a work truck as an urban camouflage project.

> This urban camouflage guise is very useful for parking in yellow zones, urban/industrial exploration, and crime deterrence. And the thing is… it really works!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1665853

https://kk.org/cooltools/urban-camouflag/

by criddell

5/4/2026 at 12:32:24 AM

The free coffee is a nice bonus.

by nullc

5/3/2026 at 8:41:33 PM

The piece states that it appears to be molded fiberglass. But is anyone aware of any more in depth analysis of its materials/possible production technique? Was the pillar barren on top before?

by nickthegreek

5/3/2026 at 9:05:48 PM

The pillar is fiberglass too, I believe.

There's a (mostly terrible) documentary about a previous bansky "statue" deposited in London that, in one of its better moments, tracks down the people who actually make statues for artists like banksy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Banksy_Job

edit: I feel I should clarify that this is not an official Banksy documentary. He made "Exit Through the Gift Shop" which is an amazing film which I highly recommend to anyone.

by ZeroGravitas

5/3/2026 at 10:51:12 PM

Aw, it's Fiberglas? Not bronze and stone?

The Wall Street Bull was a guerilla art piece too. It's a real bronze. Weighs about three metric tons. It's hugely popular, although it's been moved a few times. Banksy's work should be replicated in bronze and stone and placed permanently.

by Animats

5/4/2026 at 2:06:03 PM

I went to have a look at it. It appears to be one piece, probably fiberglass on a wooden frame, probably it was loaded on a flatbed truck with some sort of crane arm and put there. I don't know if it was just weighted at the bottom or fixed some how.

by tim333

5/3/2026 at 11:20:03 PM

It's an interesting piece. Makes one think about all those folks that have a lot of pride and vanity for a place that they had no control over being born in. The luck of the draw.

And very likely had very little to do with the current state of the place. Pride at age 21? Meaningless vanity, like being proud of being born with a silver spoon. Pride at age 80? Sure, if it was a life well-lived.

by ninjagoo

5/4/2026 at 1:41:30 AM

[flagged]

by arduanika

5/4/2026 at 8:58:47 AM

Such anger and contempt, for no good reason. If we're going to be calling names, I think the "twelve-year-old" moniker fits your attitude better.

by kelnos

5/4/2026 at 5:20:02 PM

It's only "for no good reason" if you think art doesn't matter.

by arduanika

5/4/2026 at 2:14:03 AM

> This is a core tenet of the Rawlsian religion, of which you are a (probably unwitting) fanatic.

Ouch. How warped does one's thinking have to be to call "A theory of justice" (1971) for pluralistic, democratic societies, a "religion"?

It seems to me that right-wingers love hyperbole and rhetoric, without addressing the meat of the matter.

Your post is no different, being entirely free of reason. A good day to you, Sir.

by ninjagoo

5/4/2026 at 3:04:44 AM

[flagged]

by arduanika

5/4/2026 at 9:07:16 AM

.. what?

by pjc50

5/4/2026 at 6:28:10 PM

I'm reacting to the supernatural claim -- this lottery in an antechamber before birth. The commenter had likely absorbed that claim from the culture, without ever realizing it could be questioned. (That's how all religions work, not just this one.) My blasphemy provoked outrage and confusion, which is understandable, because we've retrofitted our whole society around this particular supernatural story, and to hear it challenged will naturally cause fear and cognitive dissonance.

Clear enough?

by arduanika

5/3/2026 at 11:29:31 PM

[flagged]

by gopperl

5/4/2026 at 12:08:26 AM

  > There's no luck involved in the fact that you were born to your parents, as they were to theirs.

Are you claiming to have controlled where and to whom you were born?

You did not choose your parents, country, ancestry, class, era, genes, language, or inherited institutions. You may be inseparable from those facts, but you did not earn them.

  > There's no luck involved in the fact that you were born to your parents
  > we were so fortunate to inherit from them.

These two statements appear to be contradictory.

  > It is right to be proud of the achievements of your ancestors

And what was your contribution to those achievements to justify this pride?

You have to be careful to not fall into the trap of borrowed glory: treating an ancestor’s achievement as your own personal merit, or using ancestry to rank yourself above others.

  > toiled and strived to deliver the place that we were so fortunate to inherit
  > our responsibility to defend and improve that place for the coming generations of our people.

Are you implying that the place belongs more fully to descendants of earlier inhabitants than to newer members of the community?

So then Native Americans have a stronger claim than European descendants? Or is that a standard to only be applied moving forward?

That's also like the caste system in India: only children of brahmins can be brahmins, children of shudras can only be shudras. One is superior to another by inheritance, not merit.

That's ugly and abhorrent.

  > It is right to be proud of the achievements of your ancestors

Are you then also ashamed of their crimes?

by ninjagoo

5/6/2026 at 10:01:39 AM

> And what was your contribution to those achievements to justify this pride?

Of course personal contribution is a factor of pride, and arguably the most justified one.

But it's far from the only one. - fan clubs - a child marvelling on how strong/cool their parents are - US citizens on 4th of July (I'm not American btw)

All of these contributed ~nothing in the phenomenon; their pride comes from the wonders worked by the group they belong to. One does not need to _earn_ pride.

Think it the other way : if you don't think legitimate for the receivers of wonders to feel pride, think of it from the side of the providers of wonders. Parents who toiled for their children, great statespeople who worked hard to improve their country: they intentionally directed their efforts towards someone (descendants, citizens). I think pride is sort of gratitude of receivers for the fruits of a common group's efforts. And it's completely justified IMO to feel un-earned pride.

by aubanel

5/4/2026 at 1:01:56 AM

[flagged]

by gopperl

5/4/2026 at 3:52:30 PM

You are encouraged to feel bad and apologize for things that you never did but people who look like you did in the past, or you’re a bad person.

You are forbidden from being proud of things you never did but that people who looked like you did in the past, or you’re a bad person. Doubly so on both if you’re of European ancestry. Get with the program.

by armenarmen

5/4/2026 at 9:19:56 AM

> I can feel 'fortunate' that my parents got me the bike I really wanted for Christmas, but there's no randomness in my parents working overtime and budgeting responsibly that made it possible.

Correct. But there is randomness, or luck, or whatever you want to call it, that you were born to parents who worked overtime and budgeted responsibly so that you could have nice things. You could just have easily been born to parents who were lazy and irresponsible, and couldn't give you nice things.

> I am a part of the same collective, the long and continued story of my people.

Sure, but you did not contribute to the achievements of your ancestors. You will (and/or have) presumably achieve things on your own, built on top of your ancestors' achievements, and pass that legacy to your children. But that's something different. Be (non-arrogantly) proud of your own achievements, because you had a hand in them.

> You have to be careful not to fall into the trap of nihilistic individualism. You are part of something much bigger than yourself.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. But being a part of something doesn't mean that you've personally done something. I didn't do the things my ancestors did to get me to where I am today. I'm grateful, as I would probably not be happy doing many of the things they had to do. And I hope any children I may have will be grateful to me for the same reasons (but that also would depend on me actually being a good parent to them; I don't just get it for free).

Re: that penultimate paragraph... oof, I'm struggling with what to say here. While yes, the vast majority of the modern USA was built by the colonizers and not the natives who came before, we need to temper our enthusiasm for our achievements with an acknowledgement of the barbaric actions of our ancestors who came to the New World and deceived, sickened, and slaughtered those who already lived there.

> Isn't it funny how we are supposed to recoil in shame and horror with the constant reminders of the worst parts of our people's history, yet we are condemned for also proudly owning our best?

I don't think that condemnation is as strong as you think it is, and your aversion to it is worrying. As I said, our best is tempered with acknowledgement of our worst. Be proud, if you must, of what you, personally, have accomplished. Look on the accomplishments of others (both contemporary and long-dead) with awe and respect, as appropriate. Acknowledge that many of those accomplishments involved slave labor, murder, and other atrocities. Vow to work toward your own future accomplishments in only moral and ethical ways.

You correctly state that we are part of something much bigger than ourselves. Some of that "something" is good, and some of that "something" is bad. And everything in between. We have to live with all parts, and learn from both the good and the bad.

by kelnos

5/4/2026 at 10:24:07 AM

>But there is randomness, or luck, or whatever you want to call it, that you were born to parents who worked overtime and budgeted responsibly so that you could have nice things...

I disagree with this view and I think it's harmful. Look at it from the perspective of the parents. There is no luck or randomness involved in their responsibility and discipline to build a happy and stable home, and of course there's no randomness or luck involved in them doing the action that created me. It is impossible that I could have been born to a broke drug addict in Bolivia. I could only ever have been born to my parents.

>but you did not contribute to the achievements of your ancestors

Why should this exclude me from being proud of my people and our history? Why shouldn't I be proud of who I am, as part of that great story, and where we are and where we are headed? Every part of my modern life is a result of wars won, famines survived, breakthroughs achieved, phenomena discovered, nature harnessed, etc etc. Consider, too, that I am literally an achievement of my ancestors; my DNA carries all of this history and progression within me.

Why shouldn't I be proud of who we are? It seems that only people who hate us want me to abandon my identity for deracinated nihilism, which only motivates me further towards the opposite extreme.

Go tell a Native American to completely abandon their ethnic identity, sever connection with their ancestry, and forego any sense of pride in the history and culture of their people on your basis that they had no direct role in its creation. Remind them of the shame and horror of their crimes against my people: the scalping, pedophilia, gang-rape, torture, cannibalism, etc.

Of course, you would not dare. This is a propaganda that you reserve only for my family. We unapologetically reject it. You should too.

by gopperl

5/4/2026 at 1:28:27 AM

  >> Are you claiming to have controlled where and to whom you were born?
  > My parents did. Their parents did. My children will.

But not you

  >> you did not earn them
  > My parents did. Their parents did. My children will.

But not you

  > Everything I have today has been hard-earned by my ancestors.

But not by you

  > Everything my children have will be hard-earned by my ancestors and I. *We* earned them.

LoL

by ninjagoo

5/4/2026 at 9:01:14 AM

I think that kind of pride is pointless and unproductive.

I think it is right to be grateful to your ancestors for their achievements in ultimately giving you the life that you have.

But proud? Hubris lies down that path.

Re: luck, yes, it is absolutely luck that you were born to the parents you were born to, located in the place you were born in. I think you have the sense of the luck direction flipped from what GP meant. If you look at it from the perspective of your ancestors, then sure, your birth wasn't luck: it was a choice (or an accident, I suppose).

But from the perspective of you, it's luck: you didn't get to choose the circumstances surrounding your birth. You got lucky in that sense; you could have instead had bad luck and been born on the streets in a third-world country to a drug-addicted single parent with no money and no prospects.

by kelnos

5/4/2026 at 11:55:30 AM

[flagged]

by gopperl

5/4/2026 at 3:16:06 PM

And of course, your viewpoint, when zoomed out, can be weaponised as a justification for getting rid of orphanages. Those kids aren't unlucky, they should be ashamed of being parentless, as an extension of those parents that decided to give them up. How dare my tax money be used to feed them, that I and my ancestors worked hard for?

by haritha-j

5/3/2026 at 10:13:33 PM

England has a long history producing artwork against some institution, only for that institution to get worse over time. George Orwell wrote about the dangers of authoritarianism and surveillance, and since then the UK government has only ratcheted up their surveillance and authority. They also made a movie called This is England which straightforwardly depicts young English nationalists ruining their lives with nationalism, and 20 years later there are more nationalists in England than at any point after WW2.

Will Banksy's legacy be more or less the same?

by dreambuffer

5/4/2026 at 12:41:18 AM

England has gotten more liberal over time, not less. I'm not following your logic here. It seems you're wanting to criticize the government of the UK for being authoritarian and ratcheting up the surveillance state, but simultaneously criticize nationalists and link them to this government, but nationalists and right-leaning groups haven't really been in charge of the UK.

by ericmay

5/4/2026 at 9:06:12 AM

> nationalists and right-leaning groups haven't really been in charge of the UK.

Did you miss the whole Brexit thing?

by pjc50

5/4/2026 at 1:28:40 PM

No, I didn't. But I wouldn't claim that a referendum that was voted on by the people of the country to be the same thing as right-leaning groups being in control of the government of the UK.

by ericmay

5/4/2026 at 3:05:44 PM

Depends on who influenced them / paid for those buses.

by haritha-j

5/4/2026 at 3:55:52 PM

No it doesn't. If the right was in charge of the government of the UK they wouldn't have needed to have a referendum or drum up support for it.

Here's perhaps a concrete example to help piece this together. I live in Ohio. Our state government is right-leaning, and controlled by the Republican Party. The Republican Party has an anti-abortion platform.

A couple of years ago, citizens got together, created, and then passed an amendment to the Ohio Constitution providing abortion access as a legal right.

The right is still in control of the government, and that is true regardless of who paid to support the referendum, or how it was voted.

by ericmay

5/3/2026 at 10:43:19 PM

"They also made a movie called This is England which straightforwardly depicts young English nationalists"

Not sure who you think "they" are but "This is England" is superb. It deals with a lot of issues, way beyond just nationalism and the like.

Perhaps you would like to fix your gimlet gaze on "A Clockwork Orange" and deliver a further withering critique.

A simple explanation regarding the increase of the number of nationalists within England is the population has increased. QED.

by gerdesj

5/3/2026 at 11:06:37 PM

This is such an odd comment. People in arts and letters warning about some element of society or culture and then that element growing in strength is something that can be found in most countries, and doesn't seem more prevalent in England than elsewhere.

by phainopepla2

5/3/2026 at 10:31:28 PM

almost as if "England" is more than one person!

by vpribish

5/3/2026 at 8:52:33 PM

Banksy's "anonymity" is a total farce at this point, thoroughly supported by those in power.

by wartywhoa23

5/3/2026 at 9:08:10 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "Those in power" there are lot's of people who know, but recognise that he has chosen anonymity and see no value in putting a name to the person.

It's not so much a secret as it is simply not public.

by Lerc

5/4/2026 at 12:52:06 PM

Not sure what you mean by "not public", given that you can just search it up and find a Reuters article from March giving out his full name and background.

by plewd

5/4/2026 at 11:29:52 AM

Simple logic, if you make an anti-nationalist-war point and current mainstream politicians are against the war, you are just an establishment stooge.

by watwut

5/4/2026 at 12:15:42 AM

Good. I'm glad most of the media have come to a gentlemen's agreement to not blast his name everywhere. Adds a little more fun to the world. Even this statute is staying for now, the local council, bless them, have decided to leave it in place for the near future.

by qingcharles

5/4/2026 at 12:39:51 AM

Reuters published a lengthy "unmasking" in March of this year and nobody really cared.

I think his name not being blasted everywhere has more to do with it being thoroughly uninteresting than any gentlemen's agreement.

by ytoawwhra92

5/3/2026 at 9:10:18 PM

Who cares? Are you similarly triggered by The Rock or Alemao? Banksy is Banksy.

by toyg

5/3/2026 at 10:02:46 PM

Tracking Bansky is a favorite spy software sales demo given to authoritarian governments.

by axus

5/4/2026 at 2:00:19 PM

I was going to say

>less than two months after a journalism investigation into Banksy’s true identity was published

gives a false impression. The daily mail published his name and photo in 2008 https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-3478606/Scientists-sa...

his remaining semi anonymous does make it harder for the authorities to send him fines for graffiting stuff though.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 6:19:59 PM

Yeah, but we won't really know for sure until he sells some of the genesis block.

by arduanika

5/3/2026 at 9:30:23 PM

The point appears to have whizzed a couple of feet over your head.

by badgersnake

5/4/2026 at 9:15:20 AM

Trust HN to turn a banksy into a Rorschach test.

The statue is in Westminster, right by Whitehall. The heart of British government. It depicts a figure in a suit, marching off a ledge, completely blinded by a flag.

Who wears a suit and marches through Westminster under a flag?

- Businessmen? No. Merchants have no country.

- Officials? They wear suits but don't march

- Old-guard politicians? Rarely march or flag-wave with any conviction.

So who are we left with? The populist. The Nigel Farage archetype. The suited firebrand who wrap themselves in nationalist fervor, stoke the rabble, and blindly march everyone right off a cliff.

Banksy isn't known for complex, multi-layered messaging. He is popular precisely because he uses visual shorthand to say plainly what the general public is already thinking. There is no hidden 4D chess; it's just blunt satire about blind patriotism.

Edit: This also explains why the government is happy to keep this particular Banksy on display.

by irthomasthomas

5/4/2026 at 10:33:02 AM

I like the fact that one can scroll through the comments here and instantly spot the Brits who have just a tiny bit more context.

by drcongo

5/4/2026 at 5:11:25 PM

So predictable. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48002674

by atcol

5/4/2026 at 1:48:25 PM

Banksy is peak redditor. Masquerading as a free-thinking activist who happens to agree with every talking point of the established media and global bureaucratic regime.

by manesioz

5/4/2026 at 2:34:45 PM

> who happens to agree with every talking point of the established media and global bureaucratic regime

Can you point me to where he expressed agreement with the global bureaucratic regime? Interested to educate myself.

by gryfft

5/4/2026 at 3:11:41 PM

Anti nationalism was the liberal motto for the entirety of my lifetime.

by hellojimbo

5/4/2026 at 2:30:42 PM

Can you elaborate? I happen to know nothing about Banksy's political views beyond perhaps he is slightly leaning to the left, maybe anti-capitalist?

by spprashant

5/4/2026 at 3:05:48 PM

> Authorities on Thursday placed safety barriers around the statue as growing crowds of onlookers gathered

The fact that the statue was allowed to stay up means that the authorities approved it. So, Banksy isn't really counterculture, he's government approved counterculture.

by something765478

5/4/2026 at 3:30:04 PM

It’s hardly Banksy’s fault for getting famous. Was Banksy supposed to stop creating art once it was no longer being washed off and seen as a nuisance?

by justsid

5/4/2026 at 3:49:48 PM

Your assumption that government power will invariably be (ab)used to oppress messages the people in government do not like is a dynamic of fascism, not a universal truth.

by mindslight

5/4/2026 at 6:31:03 PM

We aren't talking about a painting in a private gallery, it's a big object in the middle of the street. If it was actually unauthorized it would be removed, even if the British government respected free speech. If artists could actually place at night their works and not be removed, the streets would be blocked due to the number of statues. This clearly seems to be a sponsored work with typical Banksy marketing, like the work that got half-shredded at its auction.

by blockmarker

5/4/2026 at 6:51:36 PM

Regardless of whether the physical placement was authorized or not, my comment still applies regarding the specific content of the message.

Authorization could be done with permits, or just tacitly by the notability of the artist. And while one can kind of do some handwaving and liken the latter dynamic to some mild corruption, that is still nowhere near the level of motivated corruption under fascism. And at this point comments invoking phrases like "established media" and "global bureaucratic regime" have a general thrust of pushing us away from liberal institutions and towards fascism, so I find those appeals quite disingenuous.

by mindslight

5/5/2026 at 1:25:29 PM

[dead]

by sadmad

5/4/2026 at 3:00:18 PM

It's nonsense. Reactionaries want to continue hamming up the bureaucratic power structure as the worst thing ever, so people won't focus on the fact that the only solution they are bringing to the table is bog standard autocracy. In reality, bureaucracy has been decent at tempering the exercise of authoritarian power and we've taken that for granted, now at our peril.

by mindslight

5/4/2026 at 2:57:24 PM

Who do you think he’s referring to here?

by dakial1

5/5/2026 at 9:23:45 AM

I mean, sometimes the status quo is just that you can continue breathing. To be blindly for or against something just because it is the status quo is abject stupidity. Sawing at the bough which you rest upon is not something to be proud of.

by Nasrudith

5/4/2026 at 2:23:57 PM

Every anti-establishment person is the same nowadays. Turns out they didn’t hate the power, they hated not having it. I think it’s human nature.

by kaiwn

5/4/2026 at 2:48:31 PM

> is the same nowadays

When did that change?

by contagiousflow

5/4/2026 at 5:13:19 PM

Can't upvote this enough.

There's always a response that his work is "anti-establishment", despite it often giving support of the establishment's viewpoints (read: liberal).

The hypocrisy seems lost on his fans/proponents.

Just imagine thinking this piece is somehow anti-establishment / thorn in the side of power, yet it was erected in one of the most surveilled areas in London and he's somehow got away with it?

Give me a break.

by atcol

5/4/2026 at 4:41:59 AM

What is the emblem on the flag? Don't know. What is he fighting for? Don't know. How is he blind? What doesn't he see? What is behind or ahead? Don't know.

Being cynical that all effort is wasted is played out at this point. Fight for something real. Name what you're against. It should be easy in the UK.

by ivankirigin

5/3/2026 at 8:29:18 PM

Yeah, definetly had the city agree to it, no way in hell to sneak a statue like that without the cops getting involved.

by tommica

5/3/2026 at 10:25:04 PM

Apparently not:

  Westminster City Council has told the BBC it did not grant permission, as it was not given advance warning that Banksy's team was planning this installation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4pvyw82exo

Council permits are usually quite public (in my country). Sneaking it in becomes part of the artwork.

by robocat

5/3/2026 at 8:56:39 PM

The trick is not to sneak it. Hi Viz and some yellow flashing lights. Couple smooth talkers.

by vscode-rest

5/3/2026 at 9:33:16 PM

Pretty much what we learned as student when we were doing something which we technically had no permit for (like digging out some stuff, using it for a theme party and putting it backs few days later). Put on some hiviz and nobody is the wiser.

by consp

5/4/2026 at 2:28:35 AM

One can imagine a future where high vis gear becomes a regulated item.

by qazxcvbnmlp

5/3/2026 at 10:51:55 PM

https://www.welikela.com/richard-ankrom-guerilla-public-serv...

by sowbug

5/4/2026 at 2:15:18 PM

I live in Westminster and we are officially supposed to put our rubbish on the pavement and there are usually no police around. They are just lucky it wasn't taken to recycling in the morning.

by tim333

5/3/2026 at 8:38:03 PM

Agreed. Also why it's totally inoffensive

(Though it's not in /the/ City of London. That wouldn't happen in a million years! City of Westminster is way more culturally flexible)

by gib444

5/3/2026 at 9:17:04 PM

It doesn't make sense in the City. Waterloo Place, where he put this, has a bunch of statues already for tourists to gawp at, just now as well as "Bloke on a Horse who was an important military leader" there's this guy stepping off his plinth because the flag blocks him from seeing what's in front of him.

The City is dead at night. If an artist wants to put art there, they'd just as somebody else said, dress up like they are workmen and be fine.

by tialaramex

5/3/2026 at 9:37:13 PM

I dunno they were flexible with the Piranha art work displaying it in the guildhall temporarily.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2qz89nk11o

by peteri

5/3/2026 at 9:21:43 PM

[flagged]

by encom

5/4/2026 at 3:40:05 AM

The 2nd level of Banksy’s pranks is how angry they make self-appointed arbiters of what is counter-culture or cringe.

by snowwrestler

5/4/2026 at 1:33:10 PM

Banksy is the Taylor Swift of art. Mainstream and banal, but with mass market appeal. Both have talent, obviously, but do not create anything profound or original. I'm aware of both through cultural osmosis, but mostly indifferent towards both - I'm not sure how you read anger from my post.

by encom

5/4/2026 at 2:20:45 PM

I buy the Taylor Swift comparison but both are quite original. Who did a guerilla blinded by the flag statue before? Who wrote "Got a long list of ex-lovers They'll tell you I'm insane" before?

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 4:59:47 PM

>"Got a long list of ex-lovers They'll tell you I'm insane"

The ex-lover theme is pretty much the foundation of blues music. Maybe not in this precise way, but the idea isn't novel. It's not exactly Bohemian Rhapsody. And of course nobody made this exact statue before, but visual irony and public placement is old hat, and in my opinion executed with greater skill before. I mean, blinded man walks off cliff is about as obvious as a slap in the face. It's the fast food of art.

Banksy is over-rated is what I'm saying.

by encom

5/3/2026 at 10:09:21 PM

Perhaps, but he’s also a talented artist.

One of my favorite contemporary musicians is a Socialist Filipino rapper who lives in LA. I can enjoy the music while finding the ideology abhorrent because they are two separate things.

by Ancapistani

5/4/2026 at 1:29:24 AM

Reminds me of this great Steward Lee quote (paraphrasing from memory): "When I was young a lot of people accused me of being a champagne socialist. If they only knew how wrong they were. I was a cocaine communist!"

Criticizing someone of being popular is just a way to silence them. If they are popular then they are "cringe", and if they are unpopular, they can be safely ignored and that statue would have been removed by the police and forgotten without any news coverage.

Banksy may be popular, but he is not completely establishment, because well look at the statue. Its an obvious critique of the Iran war, and yet the Iran war still grinds on and UK bases continue to be used for Iran war operations. So apparently there is someone in the establishment that does not agree with Banksy. Someone boldly stepping into the void.

by hristov

5/3/2026 at 10:37:28 PM

"The Underground is a Lie", successful version.

by BoingBoomTschak

5/3/2026 at 9:50:31 PM

Somebody has to enlighten mimosa-party participants about socialism.

by lucketone

5/4/2026 at 12:04:49 AM

Not just him, but all the people in his cultural sphere. I've been to a Banksy exhibition, and it also had videos of "critics" commenting on his work. The overtone was how inspiring and brave it is to protest things like war and injustice nowadays in a western country. It's repulsive how ignorant these people are towards their own privilege, while taking the moral high ground and lecturing others.

And of course there was a fucking gift shop at the end.

by phba

5/4/2026 at 3:02:05 AM

There’s nothing repulsive about people being opposed to war.

by dyauspitr

5/3/2026 at 9:20:35 PM

seems missed in the general commentary that there is also an inherent commentary on the western tradition of “blind justice” https://i.etsystatic.com/13403651/r/il/40b0bf/6851322246/il_...

by daseiner1

5/3/2026 at 10:32:36 PM

How so? The concept of the 'blindness' of justice is antithetical to blind patriotism.

by danparsonson

5/4/2026 at 11:25:26 AM

> The concept of the 'blindness' of justice is antithetical to blind patriotism.

exactly. i mean only to point out that the Banksy work intentionally invokes the figure of Blind Justice to inform the work, however you may interpret it.

by daseiner1

5/3/2026 at 8:28:20 PM

Anyone else leaving up a huge statue in the middle of the park would be arrested

by seydor

5/4/2026 at 12:48:37 AM

Presumably Banksy and associates would have been arrested too if they had been caught. This whole thing relies on doing it in a way that people don't question it while it's happening.

by SamBam

5/4/2026 at 6:26:37 AM

Yeah, and that is precisely the point.

This contradiction at the heart of it does a lot of work and is a very valuable part of the art. This contradiction has led me to think a lot about rules and their role in society and to what extent pure strict rules based societies are a worthwhile goal and on the other hand what it means of we make exceptions.

by arrrg

5/4/2026 at 11:11:26 AM

This is a joke right? If elon musk had done the same thing (which he obviously could) i don't understand what is the value

by seydor

5/4/2026 at 2:32:21 PM

If Elon Musk did this because he wanted to (not make a statement, just to achieve some other goal he has) then that‘s not really art. If he did it to make a statement about how different rules apply to billionaires and he wanted to point that out then that to me would be an interesting artistic expression, sure (though he probably wouldn’t do that).

For well more than a century artists like Duchamp (e.g. Fountain from 1917) have been playing around with what turns something into art and makes it valued and where then line between art/not art is and what that has to do with explicit and implicit rules.

To me graffiti in its contemporary form in general but also specifically Banksy is a pretty natural continuation from that discourse that fits right in. That to me has always been the additional layer to any work by Banksy, whatever other (often obvious) statement the artwork might make.

by arrrg

5/4/2026 at 2:11:19 PM

It's not in a park. It's on the pavement area of a road. For better or worse they don't arrest many people for leaving stuff in the street in London. A fine maybe.

by tim333

5/3/2026 at 10:50:26 PM

I wish Banksy put the statue a block away at the roundabout at the end of Pall Mall instead. The current spot he picked already has several other statues there. The roundabout at the end of Pall Mall is empty, presently rather dull, and would look much nicer with a statue.

This is the better spot: https://maps.app.goo.gl/6EmX2jPiaKRNtNtr8 51°30'19.0"N 0°08'16.0"W

by tristanj

5/4/2026 at 8:53:51 AM

I can assure you that they would not have gone through all this enormous effort to quickly install a statue without very careful consideration of the most effective place to do so.

by jb1991

5/4/2026 at 2:32:17 PM

Maybe it's not too late? You could suggest that to the council.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 3:48:24 AM

Isn't that part of the point? To compare and contrast the current world 'leadership' with historical figures (which could go both ways).

by BLKNSLVR

5/4/2026 at 9:55:39 AM

Establishment-sanctioned subversion is not subversion, it's propaganda.

by bnksnksnkas

5/3/2026 at 10:42:59 PM

Had this statue been erected in 2006, it would’ve been an immortal masterpiece. Had it been sculpted in 2016, it would still have been a great statue but flawed. But it was made in 2026. Alas, what can one say?

by sb057

5/4/2026 at 12:43:48 PM

I tend to like Banksy a lot, even in things that are different than his "usual" style and type of work (graffiti), as in this case with a statue.

More generally, I am wondering if anyone has a good explanation of what makes an artist "click" with the world, become famous, and usually raise the price of his/her artwork. I can bet that today it costs a lot to own anything by Banksy, considering that most of his work is not even "detachable" from its original creation point.

by simonebrunozzi

5/4/2026 at 1:21:25 PM

What raised the price of Banksy initially was that he gave it a price; he was the only graffiti artist doing gallery exhibitions and selling art. Before he put it in a gallery, nobody considered it have any value.

by Stevvo

5/3/2026 at 8:43:07 PM

Banksy is the patron saint of the “I’m 13 and this is deep” mentality.

by periodjet

5/3/2026 at 8:59:51 PM

"Blinded by nationalism" I don't know, seems like a clear concise message that has relevance in today's world.

by TehCorwiz

5/3/2026 at 9:10:01 PM

Why nationalism? A flag can represent more than a nation. Can be blinded by any "flag" / ideology.

by miketery

5/3/2026 at 9:20:58 PM

Since last summer a lot of flags appeared all over the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raise_the_Colours https://manchestermill.co.uk/the-men-who-raised-the-flags/

by wrxd

5/3/2026 at 9:55:11 PM

I went back to England last year and couldn't believe how many flags there were, I was shocked and not in a good way

by philk10

5/3/2026 at 10:30:50 PM

Every criticism levelled at the St. George's Cross can be levelled at the Union Jack. It is time people in England had a healthier relationship with their flag, more like Scotland and Wales, and less like Northern Ireland.

by nephihaha

5/4/2026 at 6:29:53 AM

Yes, that's true, if you completely ignore the reality of how they're used in practice today

by petesergeant

5/4/2026 at 10:53:23 AM

Every parish church in England (more or less) has flown the St. George's cross traditionally for as long as I can remember. There is nothing wrong with that. Conversely, Union Jacks are a major symbol of Loyalism and Orangeism in Ireland, and parts of Scotland, which is an extremely aggressive and "hands on" movement. Union Jacks can be seen in pictures of every far right movement going back a century or more.

The Union Jack is a symbol of empire and colonialism which the St. George's Cross isn't.

However, the football thing is more recent. If you watch "the Italian Job" from the 1960s, the England fans wave around Union Jacks instead of their own specific flag (as Scotland and Wales fans would). Clearly in the intervening years, England fans have discovered the England flag.

Scottish and Welsh people seem to be a lot more comfortable with their identity than English do. And that includes their flags. I have seen countless bits of research which suggest that ethnic minorities happily identify as Scottish and Welsh in Scotland and Wales, but in England, they identify as British rather than English. I suggest you read Billy Bragg's "the Progressive Patriot". He is an English socialist who has tried to reclaim English identity from the far right, which he is entitled to.

by nephihaha

5/4/2026 at 11:58:28 AM

England has a unique position in the Union, and indeed much of the world, where it is seen as an historic and current oppressive force, and our attitude to flags has to acknowledge that context.

In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the Union Flag is a reminder that the UK countries are ultimately run by England, where there isn’t a true acknowledgement that the countries are culturally different, let alone able to rule themselves.

Within England the St George’s Cross has become a symbol of exceptionalism and superiority, not least because it is prominently flown on nationalist and supremacist marches. Since the Union Jack includes the other countries in the Union, use of St George is often seen as a snub to the other countries.

So England can’t win? No. Correctly so, IMO, because of history and context (I am English).

by teamonkey

5/4/2026 at 12:40:44 PM

I do not consider myself English, but Scottish. I remember ?fifteen years ago defending the St. George's Cross from English people arguing against it. The irony!

We do occasionally get billboards with company X saying they support England, but other than that it isn't an issue in Scotland.

Like Billy Bragg says, there is a strong case for reclaiming the English flag from the far right.

The Union Jack in Scotland has a much more complex history, particularly in and around Glasgow where it is connected with extreme loyalism and Orangeism (which is where a lot of the Scottish Reform party vote will come from.) In Northern Ireland, it is hated by a large section of the population. In Wales and Scotland, some independence supporters hate the Union Jack too.

The Union Jack has a strong association with the far right and loyalism, not to mention imperialism and somehow gets a free pass.

by nephihaha

5/4/2026 at 6:22:53 PM

The Union Flag is much more of a right-wing symbol in Scotland, as you say (I lived in Scotland for 10 years) but in England the GC is far more associated with nationalism and the right, while the Union Flag is a bit more VE Day, church fetes and Cool Britannia, and gives more of a “working together” vibe than that of oppression.

Much of that is due to schooling and media conditioning, of course, but the flags mean different things to different people.

by teamonkey

5/4/2026 at 6:56:36 PM

In Scotland it varies by region. In the north east and the borders, it is more innocuous although contentious. In the Central Belt around Edinburgh and Glasgow it is often linked with working class loyalism, when it's not on a hotel or a government building.

by nephihaha

5/3/2026 at 10:49:51 PM

St. George's Cross is football brawls and "England uber alles". Union Jack is stiff upper lip and kicking nazis out of Europe.

by actionfromafar

5/3/2026 at 11:41:06 PM

It was the flag of the British Empire with all that entails. It is to be found all over the loyalist areas of Northern Ireland and on Orange Marches. It has appeared in umpteen far right demos, and in fact if you look at 1970s far right footage you can see it is the flag they most commonly carry in the UK not the St. George's Cross.

Oh, and you'll find it at plenty of football matches, notably Glasgow Rangers, who fly it while singing songs about wanting to be "up to our knees in Fenian blood".

by nephihaha

5/4/2026 at 2:31:09 PM

It's a monument style sculpture. The kind raised with public money. I think that carries part of the meaning with it versus graffiti or some other medium. It's also depicting the blinded walking off the edge, making the comment based on both the figure and the form of the statue.

by TehCorwiz

5/3/2026 at 9:19:43 PM

The ambiguity is part of the charm. Something that reveals more about the beholders than the artist makes for stimulating conversation and discovery.

Even the new positioning of the art on a plinth in some open space is enigmatic. If it were a critique of the powers that be, why would officialdom collaborate in propping it up?

by adolph

5/3/2026 at 9:29:04 PM

why indeed

by jerkstate

5/4/2026 at 2:48:07 AM

[flagged]

by appreciatorBus

5/3/2026 at 9:14:32 PM

Flags overwhelmingly represent nations, groups considering themselves nations, that were nations or have some kind of individual governmental status.

by MattGaiser

5/3/2026 at 9:34:06 PM

Nations != governments.

“Nations” as synonym for country started appearing only recently, in last two/three hundred years.

Flags have thousands of years of history.

by lucketone

5/3/2026 at 10:28:33 PM

They don't at all. Consider for example that every single city, county and local council in the UK has a flag. There are flags for the United Nations, the European Union, Esperanto, every major football team and most political movements including the CND and anarchism.

by nephihaha

5/3/2026 at 10:04:01 PM

Flags also represent causes, or groups that don’t aspire to becoming a nation.

by kergonath

5/3/2026 at 9:18:28 PM

Interpretations, in my art?

Seriously, this is part of the fun of art. Neither of you are wrong for reading different messages into it.

by delusional

5/4/2026 at 2:46:27 AM

Exactly.

Communists are blinded by the flag with the hammer and sickle.

Teachers and doctors are blinded by trans ideology and its flag.

Examples abound, but wanna transgressor blanksy knows who butters his bread.

by appreciatorBus

5/4/2026 at 9:52:27 AM

> Teachers and doctors are blinded by trans ideology and its flag.

Interesting fact: the creator of the trans flag, Robert Hogge (later known as Monica Helms), used to steal his mother's underwear, then moved on to stealing random women's underwear for sexual reasons, and wrote fantasy fiction about a man marrying a child who doesn't age.

by inkersp

5/4/2026 at 1:32:48 PM

> Five years later, he declared himself a ‘transgender woman’ and lesbian. In his 2019 memoir More Than Just a Flag, Helms describes how his obsession with presenting as a woman led to the breakdown of his marriage to his wife, Donna, after she had discovered he was hiding away family finances to purchase estrogen, women’s clothing, and to pay to attend cross-dresser conferences.

https://reduxx.info/trans-pride-flag-creator-71-announces-ad...

“… and lesbian” aka a male who is attracted to females, aka straight.

by appreciatorBus

5/4/2026 at 1:15:21 PM

Unsurprising!

For me, nothing has been more clarifying about the trans debate than learning about autogynophilia and realizing that most males who think they are trans are actually straight. Until recently, I had assumed they were mostly males attracted to other males, and I suspect most of the public still thinks that too.

by appreciatorBus

5/4/2026 at 8:38:28 AM

> Teachers and doctors are blinded by trans ideology and its flag

You're going to get a bunch of downvotes, but I'm also going to take the time to personally tell you how stupid this is as well.

by pjc50

5/4/2026 at 1:06:34 PM

I appreciate the extra time you invested to let me know.

So to return the favor, I’ll add a couple of sentences too.

A year ago I would never have made such a comment.

My understanding about the issues boiled down to approximately:

- queer theory is some sort of reasonably academic pursuit that has something to do with gay people

- trans is just gay rights 2.0; clearly anyone who has any concerns is a raging bigot

Neither was a core interest of mine, but they seemed reasonable enough. However, eventually, I started reading about the topic. (I’d recommend Trans by Helen Joyce) and now I feel differently.

I now think JK had it right all along – we all should (and do) have the basic human right to wear whatever we like, and to sleep with anyone who will have us. But what’s being demanded by activists and taught in schools goes far beyond that and involves real contradictions, real risks to children and zero sum trade-offs with hard fought sex specific rights for women.

These issues are things we could talk about so that we all come to a better understanding and make better decisions. But instead wide swathes of officialdom are “blinded by the flag” and have decided, as I once did, that anyone who has concerns is a raging bigot.

by appreciatorBus

5/4/2026 at 4:21:28 PM

Noting that you use exclusively gender critical sources (and some very poor ones to add, like Littman's "study") while also having history of blaming "wokism", I seriously doubt you have given this subject a fair consideration.

Interesingly, so called "gender critical" movement is increasingly pivoting to other conservative or plainly reactionary talking points. For example, the book you are recommending makes a thinly veilded point that "promoters of trans ideology" are rich jewish men, key figure among them being George Soros.

Kishwer Falkner who was big proponent of trans people segregation during her EHRC leadership recently turned to anti abortion activism. And plenty of LGB sans TQ people I've talked to are big fans of "we are normal gays who limit our orientation to the bedroom" talking points while also leaning conservative or reactionary themselves.

by Ralfp

5/4/2026 at 10:29:07 PM

> For example, the book you are recommending makes a thinly veilded point that "promoters of trans ideology" are rich jewish men, key figure among them being George Soros.

This is untrue. Please read the author's response to this false allegation: https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/p/a-wild-ride.

by inkersp

5/4/2026 at 7:10:46 PM

Classic “everyone who disagrees with me is secretly a bigot and a Nazi” energy here.

Nothing you’ve said actually addresses any arguments.

Can you actually give a refutation of Joyce’s arguments are you going just going to stick to ad hominem?

by appreciatorBus

5/4/2026 at 12:36:26 AM

How do you know it's "blinded by nationalism"? There are plenty of non-national flags which are just as blinding

by socalgal2

5/4/2026 at 2:12:14 AM

In the UK there's been a recent spate of nationalist flag flying. Given the artist and location, "blinded by nationalism" is the most likely intended meaning.

by weavejester

5/4/2026 at 6:16:32 AM

> there's been a recent spate of nationalist flag flying

Which spate and which nation? The one the local flags were in response to, or the local flags?

by gib444

5/3/2026 at 9:06:44 PM

Is it though? This can mean anything. Is waving a Palestinian flag the same as waving an Israeli flag? Where do we draw the line between harmful and productive nationalism? Who exactly is blinded by nationalism?

It is vague enough to appear deep to those trying to find something deep but not concrete enough to appear as anything that will stick in people's minds for more than a week. Unfortunately a lot of modern art is like this.

by hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

5/3/2026 at 10:05:52 PM

> Is waving a Palestinian flag the same as waving an Israeli flag?

Waving a flag is not a problem in itself. You can be proud of being part of whatever group you like and not hurt anyone. The problem is when the flag becomes the prism through which you see the world. Or, as the statue puts it, when you’re blinded by it.

by kergonath

5/3/2026 at 10:48:45 PM

> Is it though? This can mean anything. Is waving a Palestinian flag the same as waving an Israeli flag? Where do we draw the line between harmful and productive nationalism? Who exactly is blinded by nationalism?

Clearly it depends on your actual object-level position on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Or in general, what specific nationalisms you mean when you talk about being "blinded by nationalism".

And that's the main reason why I think this is a mediocre piece of art. Very few people actually are genuinely anti-nationalist for all possible human groups that have some sense of themselves as a nation. All anti-nationalist rhetoric is implicitly aimed at a specific nationalism that someone has a problem with - and also everyone knows this. So everyone wants to use the blank slate of bansky's featureless flag as a canvas upon which to paint a nationalism they don't like in order to discredit it. And I personally think that's boring. Maybe engendering that reaction was itself part of Bansky's artistic vision, but I still don't think that makes for good art.

by JuniperMesos

5/4/2026 at 8:58:17 AM

It was an extremely funny aspect of the Scottish Independence referendum to see people denouncing "nationalism" from in front of a Union Jack background.

by pjc50

5/3/2026 at 9:09:23 PM

Both Israel and Palestine are blinded by ideology. It is a very common failure mode for people.

by cm2012

5/3/2026 at 9:19:14 PM

[flagged]

by hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

5/3/2026 at 9:23:27 PM

So ... Hamas does not want to do ethnic cleansing and attempted that a couple of times, but simply were not as powerful to have a bigger impact?

by lukan

5/3/2026 at 9:34:35 PM

Resistance to illegal occupation and colonization isn't ethnic cleansing, it's a legal right as ruled by every international body since Israel was formed. Totally false equivalence.

by t-3

5/3/2026 at 10:04:03 PM

If you want to remove a certain set of people from land (people who were born there btw.) you are engaging in ethnic cleansing. The definition is clear here.

by lukan

5/3/2026 at 10:06:16 PM

When one is a colony of the other the flag of the colonized has added symbol of decolonization. The flag of the colonizers has no such symbol, quite the contrary in fact. These two flags are clearly distinct.

by runarberg

5/4/2026 at 8:20:48 AM

When one is an organization terrorizing the other the flag of the terrorized has added symbol of anti-terror. The flag of the terrorists has no such symbol, quite the contrary in fact. These two flags are clearly distinct.

by nkmnz

5/4/2026 at 3:19:09 PM

Your attempt to paint me as a hypocrite fails because it assumes I don’t consider the flag of Palestine to be distinct from the flag of Hamas. But I do consider these to be distinct flags.

by runarberg

5/4/2026 at 3:29:45 PM

Just to get the record straight: I don’t paint you as a hypocrite. I paint you as a supporter of terrorists.

by nkmnz

5/4/2026 at 4:42:00 AM

[dead]

by Krunklefrit

5/3/2026 at 9:12:47 PM

waving any flag and thinking its us or them is equally blinding. the world is not vacuum and to coexist we need to put flags behind and work together.

by garyfirestorm

5/4/2026 at 10:57:30 AM

Well, at least he didnt blindly support islamosupremacism..

by 21asdffdsa12

5/3/2026 at 8:59:47 PM

Are you from the UK and know what the piece is a reference to? It’s topical and unpretentious and comes at a time where the country is splintering. Feels a like a bit of a distant midwit take to take shots at the appeal it has.

by have_faith

5/3/2026 at 9:09:54 PM

Explain like I'm 13 and don't live in the UK.

by andai

5/3/2026 at 10:10:56 PM

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48001630

by dijksterhuis

5/3/2026 at 9:09:29 PM

Splintering? You have two zombie parties that are really the same in different colours. Of course people are going to vote for other parties that seem more left/right wing. Predictable consequence.

by hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

5/3/2026 at 10:07:47 PM

Splintering because some are going one way and others are going the opposite direction. Heading to opposite extremes.

by danparsonson

5/3/2026 at 9:18:17 PM

Most galvanizing statements have been pithy and comprehensible to 13 year olds. The general population is not doing a deep dive in to something like Thoreau’s “Resistance to Civil Government,” contemplating the proper role of government, and then getting fired up to act. We need CliffsNotes, slogans, and visible art like this.

by Fezzik

5/3/2026 at 9:02:58 PM

Heaven forbid someone tries to communicate a point with art.

by ryandrake

5/4/2026 at 11:46:35 AM

He wasn't objecting to that. He was saying the "point" is about as sophisticated as "we should just, like, all agree not to fight wars man".

Personally I don't mind it. I think it would be difficult to convey well thought out points in art (the world is too complicated) and it's fine that they're just fun visual wordplays.

You wouldn't criticise a newspaper political cartoon for taking liberties with reality; these are basically the same.

by IshKebab

5/3/2026 at 9:31:48 PM

Actually it’s a great example of something different, where the person who was original and eventually becomes ubiquitous and groundbreaking and widely imitated to the point where it's hard to understand just how original they actually are.

There are many examples of the same thing: Andy Warhol and the soup cans and screen-printed portraits with different color backgrounds or Led Zeppelin and English folk hard rock songs that have hobbits in them are two of them.

Eventually, it's hard to even process their work in the context of how predictable and trite it seems to be a few decades later.

by CPLX

5/3/2026 at 9:31:37 PM

The irony is that the statue is being guarded by the London police.

by pippy

5/3/2026 at 10:02:43 PM

That’s not irony. It’s a pro-establishment piece. If it was a piece about migrants raping British women Banksy would be in jail right now.

by ungreased0675

5/4/2026 at 1:08:29 AM

[flagged]

by rexpop

5/3/2026 at 9:01:29 PM

I think it deserves credit for being both simple and original.

by infinitewars

5/3/2026 at 9:19:40 PM

So, you are 14 and you understand the world? Doesn't seem like it

by touwer

5/4/2026 at 6:57:38 AM

They are 14 and in the ‘it’s cool to hate’ phase.

by uncircle

5/3/2026 at 9:58:43 PM

It doesn't need to be super layered to be impactful?

Plus the execution is also part of the art.

by yakkomajuri

5/4/2026 at 7:35:34 AM

What truly deep art would you recommend for us laymans who enjoy Banksy's works?

by druskacik

5/3/2026 at 8:57:46 PM

This criticism would carry more weight if the people this statue criticises had the intellectual and emotional maturity beyond that of a teenager.

Unfortunately, they often don't meet that bar, so the message has to be in a form they can understand.

by vkou

5/3/2026 at 9:05:53 PM

You're being downvoted but honestly the "everyone is twelve now" meme explains our collective societal dysfunction perfectly.

There's no point to complexity or subtlety in art anymore, or even any kind of symbolism at all. Anything that needs to be interpreted, that doesn't have a single objective meaning which gets spelled out for you. Flag man is silly. Everyone is twelve now.

by krapp

5/3/2026 at 9:17:55 PM

Lana Wachowski has said that the Red Pill movement taught her that no matter how unsubtle you are, it's still too subtle for some people.

by Lerc

5/3/2026 at 10:18:19 PM

Huh. I hadn't thought about how the "Red Pill movement" would feel for the Wachowskis, yeah, there's truly no limit to how oblivious people can be and this thread is illustrative.

by tialaramex

5/4/2026 at 3:23:16 PM

I think the deeper dynamic is that any time anyone experiences a red pill, it's akin to a higher energy state and they become extremely receptive to sliding right back down into a different blue pill paradigm. In fact it's natural to eagerly crave it, as turning the deductive-reasoning crank forwards yields a whole batch of new fresh "insights" without having to do much work to obtain them. In the context of the movie, imagine - shortly after Neo takes the red pill, acclimates to the real world (rough), starts his training, says "I know Kung Fu", and then refuses to leave the training sim because it is so damn stimulating in new ways he isn't used to.

by mindslight

5/3/2026 at 10:40:30 PM

100%. One can't advocate for the dismantling of the Dept. of Education, the tearing down of "educational elites", and the wholesale banning of books, while at the same time crying foul when people say they have the intellectual capacity of a 12-year-old.

by toomanyrichies

5/3/2026 at 9:04:39 PM

"They'd be pretty angry if they could read"

by 9dev

5/3/2026 at 9:02:01 PM

Maybe, but in 100 years, people looking back on the current era will easily understand the work. It symbolically communicates something about the spirit of the age.

by odyssey7

5/3/2026 at 9:31:18 PM

This works really well these days, when the average person is 13.

by stavros

5/3/2026 at 8:55:01 PM

Really riles up PE types and "patriots" though.

by rvba

5/4/2026 at 11:52:44 AM

I disagree. There's plenty of adults going around plastering England's St George Cross flag on lampposts to project their love of the flag (along with the not so subtle messaging that immigrants and anyone non-white aren't welcome). If adults are going to behave like adolescents, then the art needs to go to their level.

(I'm a fan of Banksy because he isn't afraid to speak out against the blatant murder carried out because of flags and nationalism)

by ndsipa_pomu

5/4/2026 at 10:32:03 AM

You are the patron saint of "I'm doing jack shit except criticizing anyone that moves".

by Arodex

5/4/2026 at 8:45:14 AM

Either that or Trump supporters are easily triggered.

by spiderfarmer

5/3/2026 at 9:22:55 PM

[dead]

by mihaaly

5/3/2026 at 10:27:49 PM

Account created last year, is Banksy your patron saint?

by booleandilemma

5/3/2026 at 9:08:06 PM

He's also king of the "I'll criticize the west but I'll turn a blind-eye to non-democratic countries' wrongdoings". A trait shared with virtually all intellectuals and artists in the west.

There are fights worth fighting: for example there are 300 million women alive who have undergone forced genital mutilation. 300 million ain't cheap change. There are also hundreds of millions of people who applauded the killing of 1200 young civilians who were enjoying life at a music festival "because it's resistance".

Applauding the killing of young unarmed civilians, genitally mutilating women and turning a blind-eye to a regime slaughtering 30 000+ of its own unarmed civilians is where I personally draw the line and consider there are maybe more important things to complain about than, say, "the patriarchal western society built by heterosexual white men" or some other woke non-sense like that.

Now to be honest Banksy did art criticizing war overall, not just war started by the west. So a generous reading could consider that he also criticizes things like the 800 000 deaths during the Hutu vs Tutsi war.

But still overall: lots of balls from western artists when it's about criticizing the west, but tiny tiny nuts when it's about, say, attacking the ideology that is responsible for 300 people enjoying music at the Bataclan and then getting slaughtered.

But these people can live with their own conscience: I speak up and I've got mine.

by TacticalCoder

5/3/2026 at 9:22:27 PM

That's a lot of imaginary flaws in imaginary people, with imaginary numbers as scaffolding.

The moral posture you're criticising is not actually a thing, I personally don't know of any Western intellectual who criticises the West but is fine with FGM for example. But it seems that the fault you find in them is that when they criticise the West, for example, they don't also add a list of grievances against all the other countries (but surely they'd have to speak for 10 hours every time they open their mouths?).

It's also funny how you take the 30,000 Iranian civilians killed at face value, but don't talk about the wrongs of the British empire. And you didn't even mention North Korea once. You see the issue with your reqs?

by constantius

5/3/2026 at 9:33:29 PM

Are you making art to fill that perceived gap, or just lodging your objection to people doing their own thing? No artist owes you a curriculum of your design.

by bravoetch

5/4/2026 at 9:00:00 AM

The Iran problem is a good example: it was wrong of them to massacre civilians, but you cannot fix this by .. bombing more civilians.

by pjc50

5/4/2026 at 11:00:19 AM

So how do you fix a situation, where one party relentlessly attacks all the time? Israel, does what ukraine does- a strip of death around the country- getting wider as the technology to attack it matures.

by 21asdffdsa12

5/3/2026 at 9:22:47 PM

What do you want the artists to do about it? Part of art's power is shining a light on something we don't notice day to day. Most westeners are against mutilation, what would the art say?

Art will always be about speaking truth to power, and that power will usually be the one closest felt. There's not much value in a swede speaking truth to Nigerian warlords.

by delusional

5/4/2026 at 1:05:59 PM

> But these people can live with their own conscience: I speak up and I've got mine.

Not sure there's much conscience in Banksy making anti-national chauvinist memes whilst not identifying as any sort of nationalist, but there's even less in dismissing all criticisms of one's own society's treatment of, say, women because some other societies treat them worse.

For all that I don't think posturing graffiti artists are the saviours of humanity, it's difficult not to notice that the groups that actually are tackling FGM are practising Muslims and super-liberal NGOs (in that order) and that the people who raise it to deflect from criticisms of their own society are not represented at all in those efforts. Or are actively campaigning to get women's escape routes from those countries shut down.

Can't really lecture others on losing their sense of perspective about the magnitude of injustices either when a week ago you were expressing outrage at checks post history creatives depicting certain characters in LOTR as non-white!?!

by notahacker

5/3/2026 at 9:25:57 PM

There's a lot wrong with the world, but it seems not unreasonable for people to more strongly critique things 1) they feel they have some responsibility for or 2) that directly impact them or 3) where their criticisms are more likely to result in positive change.

by zuminator

5/4/2026 at 2:43:09 PM

He's a Brit mostly putting art in Britain and so it's naturally that way focused. I've no info what his views would be on forced genital mutilation - probably against but not his area of art like most people.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 10:53:30 AM

Oh yes the classic problem of 'the west' always bettering themselves. If they would actually start focusing on the rest of the world, maybe the world would be a wonderful place. Right?

Or maybe, we should look at the problems in our society and try to make it better, instead of just shouting into the void about things we, as nations, can't and wouldn't be and perhaps, shouldn't able to change?

by UnwrapComment

5/3/2026 at 9:09:41 PM

> Banksy is the patron saint of the “I’m 13 and this is deep” mentality.

You are wrong.

by jiriro

5/4/2026 at 7:21:09 PM

My grandma and your grandma, Were sittin' by the fire. My grandma told your grandma "I'm gonna set your flag on fire"

by Integrape

5/4/2026 at 9:35:14 AM

It's a little too on the nose, isn't it?

by fredsted

5/3/2026 at 9:29:26 PM

If someone was to deface this statue would they face legal action? It’s kind of an interesting thought, side if it really was just put up without the city’s authority it would be okay, and if it wasn’t it defeats the entire point.

“Rage against the machine” by doing what the machine wants type thing.

by nothinkjustai

5/3/2026 at 9:59:12 PM

Yes. This is state-sanctioned think. They probably paid to put it up!

by declan_roberts

5/3/2026 at 10:40:48 PM

Really makes you wonder about other things as well...

by petermcneeley

5/3/2026 at 9:59:29 PM

That evil city council..

by lucketone

5/3/2026 at 8:18:50 PM

Statue of a man in a suit walking off a precipice while blinding himself with the flag he is carrying.

https://banksy.co.uk/index.html

by metalman

5/3/2026 at 9:33:45 PM

I can't get over the flag itself… It's a black flag. Not a British flag, not a white flag,… A BLACK flag.

Historically, the black flag is strongly associated with anarchism, anti-state politics, revolt, and rejection of national authority.

Had he colored it in the union jack, then I would've said it was nationalism, and the person is blinded by nationalism.

But. This is Banksy, black-and-white Banksy, so there may be no symbolism behind the black flag, but it's just very interesting. I can't accept that he would not have considered the color of the flag.

by Simulacra

5/3/2026 at 10:38:28 PM

It's styled after other bronze statues that are all one colour because of the material. Given the context in which he put this up, it's a pretty clear commentary on nationalism in general, so using a specific country's flag wouldn't work.

by danparsonson

5/3/2026 at 11:10:02 PM

I get the unifying color, but I still think there's a hidden meaning

by Simulacra

5/3/2026 at 11:24:07 PM

It's a monochrome artwork so there is no colour assigned to the flag, rather than it being specifically black.

by jamesmccann

5/4/2026 at 9:27:33 AM

My take is that it's not specifically black; that's just the monochrome nature of the artwork. The fact that it has no design or color on it means that it can be a stand-in for anything, depending on who's looking.

by kelnos

5/3/2026 at 10:16:18 PM

Black flags are never depicted being wielded in this way. The stance and the clothes of the person carrying the flag are two more artistic shorthands that makes it very clear that this is a national flag, not a black flag of solidarity.

by runarberg

5/3/2026 at 9:41:23 PM

I think it's about being slightly more subtle than a frontal attack on a specific flag.

But from an American perspective a guy wearing a suit while carrying an "anarchist" flag wouldn't be inappropriate, either.

by mindslight

5/3/2026 at 11:11:20 PM

But what is the anarchist flag?

by Simulacra

5/3/2026 at 10:12:04 PM

Why not?

We anarchists with careers do in fact exist. There are probably dozens of us outside of tech, even!

by Ancapistani

5/3/2026 at 10:17:42 PM

How would you say your numbers compare to the amount of business leaders who are marketing themselves with messages of liberation, but actually want to usher in an era of unfettered corporate authoritarianism? I was not saying an anarchist wearing a suit cannot exist. Rather I was pointing out the current pop culture abuse of the concepts of anarchism/libertarianism.

by mindslight

5/3/2026 at 10:42:18 PM

I’m not sure; lots of people self-identify as anarchists while holding beliefs that are diametrically opposed to my own, and lots of people who are much closer to my own beliefs call themselves other things because they’re either afraid of the word “anarchism” or understand it to mean something else.

If I had to ballpark it, I’d guess something like 1:5 people in tech are broadly aligned with me politically (meaning “less extreme, but directionally similar”) while maybe 1:100 would self-identify as an anarchist and 1:500 both self-identify and align fully with me.

Does that help?

by Ancapistani

5/4/2026 at 2:24:11 AM

Not really, as you keep missing my larger point about authoritarianism marketing itself as anarchism/libertarianism. And that dynamic seems to be quite prevalent in Surveillance Valley.

by mindslight

5/4/2026 at 8:46:05 PM

> lots of people self-identify as anarchists while holding beliefs that are diametrically opposed to my own

by Ancapistani

5/3/2026 at 10:11:16 PM

It’s Banksy. He uses color to highlight things or where the color is important. Here, I assume the flag is intentionally indistinguishable.

by Ancapistani

5/4/2026 at 3:53:09 AM

Countries with non-rectangular flags are meddling hands right now.

by dvh

5/4/2026 at 7:11:08 AM

“Attributed to Banksy”? It has his signature and he posted about it on his instagram. What else is needed to confirm the creator?

by namenotrequired

5/4/2026 at 12:59:58 PM

There is a lot of tributes to Bansksy - signed "3anksy" - he don't have to and didn't use to.

Banksy has some specific and not random sense, this one.. shallowly could be considered IMHO ? (..and being installed Banksy style too). Convenient. "Attributed" could be second-order too (Memex). ?

by t23414321

5/4/2026 at 3:16:45 PM

He, or his team, post about the art on instagram. Same with this one. When I first heard about this statue I went there to find it. I guess they can post about any art though but this is how I try to fact check.

by PokemonNoGo

5/4/2026 at 7:15:19 AM

don't you mean _allegedly_ "has his signature and…"

by 0123456789ABCDE

5/4/2026 at 7:19:15 AM

[dead]

by strathmeyer

5/3/2026 at 10:14:06 PM

Unfortunately the article doesn't tell us much. I'd have hoped for some footage beyond what was released by the artist.

by yakkomajuri

5/3/2026 at 11:26:49 PM

"Dress up. Leave a false name. Be legendary. The best Poetic Terrorism is against the law, but don’t get caught. Art as crime; crime as art." -- T.A.Z.: The Temporary Autonomous Zone, Ontological Anarchy, Poetic Terrorism, 1985

The whole piece is great - https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/hakim-bey-t-a-z-the-...

Or if you have 5 mins to spare, the album version with Bill Laswell is even better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt9vMF01Pd8

by bigiain

5/3/2026 at 11:50:09 PM

holding such a large flag with one hand so high up on the pole? could easily be corrected with a lower holding position, two hands. if it did happen, the walking would cease immediately

both the blinding and defiant fist are intentional. there is only one way to die and he controls it

by 867-5309

5/4/2026 at 3:35:20 PM

Banksy is very much regime art.

by slackfan

5/3/2026 at 8:54:25 PM

Remember kids. Don't believe in anything. Don't join anything. Don't give even a small part of yourself up to anything. Don't be part of anything bigger than yourself.

by nickdothutton

5/3/2026 at 9:01:33 PM

Don't be part of anything bigger than yourself that treats you as expendable human oil.

by wartywhoa23

5/3/2026 at 10:03:27 PM

Stop and reflect for a moment. Then continue as usual (quite likely)

by lucketone

5/3/2026 at 10:06:10 PM

I had to check your other comments and now I get it that you still regard flags as having some sacred meaning in the great national past, but for me they always were about gathering as much human expendables underneath.

Sure, they might have had generated enough sacred reverence, those bloodbaths of past.

by wartywhoa23

5/3/2026 at 10:39:06 PM

> you still regard flags as having some sacred meaning

I would like to disagree on this point.

by lucketone

5/4/2026 at 11:42:21 AM

Sorry if I got you wrong!

by wartywhoa23

5/4/2026 at 1:46:03 PM

[dead]

by cindyllm

5/3/2026 at 9:41:17 PM

You forgot to add:

... that blinds you to any alternative; that indoctrinates distrust in different perspectives; that elevates the humanity of fellow believers above others.

by BLKNSLVR

5/3/2026 at 8:55:31 PM

much more sound advice than you think…

by bdangubic

5/4/2026 at 6:24:34 AM

Let's just accept that UK art follows the general trajectory of the kingdom

by seydor

5/4/2026 at 6:27:55 AM

The rise of blind nationalism is a global trend, if I'm not mistaken.

by bigyabai

5/5/2026 at 3:49:00 PM

The message is too smart for the people it's directed at.

by kadomony

5/3/2026 at 9:39:43 PM

This statue might be the best thing he's ever done. I love it.

by drcongo

5/4/2026 at 3:08:31 PM

I think it's cool. I'm pretty sure it's got more press coverage than his prior things.

by tim333

5/3/2026 at 9:47:40 PM

very current, elegant yet simple to appreciate - everybody can find some reference there

by kakacik

5/3/2026 at 10:17:10 PM

Is it? The flag is black, so could be a variety of things, not necessarily even a national flag. Just a flag in a march. (Anarchism uses a black flag.)

by nephihaha

5/3/2026 at 10:21:28 PM

The guy is walking off a cliff and he is blinded by the flag. I assume it is a commentary on Brexit. It is just short of a decade since that vote. Nationalism blinded people and they did something stupid. Not dissimilar to what is going on in the US too.

by celticninja

5/3/2026 at 10:39:37 PM

> I assume it is a commentary on Brexit.

The Brexit vote was a decade ago and though many mourn the outcome, it’s a bit late to be erecting artwork about it. References to being blinded by a flag now are probably about the particular far-right organizing of the last year or so that employs the English and UK flags in a very particular way. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raise_the_Colours

by TFNA

5/3/2026 at 10:47:55 PM

More likely a commentary on the flying of flags. Since late 2025 and throughout 2026, the UK has seen a surge in flags (the Union Jack and St George’s Cross) being tied to lampposts, bridges, and roundabouts.

This campaign, which has been highly visible on social media and in physical neighborhoods, claims to promote patriotism. However, it has been deeply polarising, with critics and anti-racism groups arguing it is being used by far-right groups to mark territory and intimidate immigrant communities.

by n1b0m

5/3/2026 at 11:01:59 PM

This feels ai generated, was it?

by celticninja

5/3/2026 at 11:24:06 PM

This is a weird one, some of the posts are obviously a human, some are a mix and some are AI entirely. Maybe I just don't understand the point in posting AI generated content at all in this scenario.

by celticninja

5/3/2026 at 11:46:05 PM

It probably does means that, but by having a black/blank flag, he has left it open to many other interpretations he never intended.

by nephihaha

5/4/2026 at 10:27:25 AM

> I assume it is a commentary on Brexit.

I feel more that it is a commentary on "blind nationalism" of which Brexit is one example, but not the only one, or the most recent. Brexit may be "over" now, but the mindset is still very much with us in the UK and elsewhere. In other words, any successful art relates to more than one specific situation, and allows more than one reading.

by SideburnsOfDoom

5/4/2026 at 11:00:22 AM

It probably is partly about Brexit. (I voted Remain by the way!!!) But he has made the blank flag so general that it could be interpreted to be so many other things like a NATO flag, an Esperanto flag, the flag of Essex or an autism pride flag.

by nephihaha

5/3/2026 at 10:24:49 PM

And how is blindly following a flag differ between a national flag and an ideology flag?

by rapidaneurism

5/4/2026 at 11:00:49 AM

Depends on which ideology.

by nephihaha

5/4/2026 at 9:29:11 AM

To me, the blank (not black) nature of the flag is the point: it's about being blinded by any ideology, even one that the artist or beholder might agree with.

by kelnos

5/4/2026 at 10:58:14 AM

He has made his point so general, that I think it undermines it. It could just as easily be an Esperanto or a CND flag (although we know it won't be either.)

by nephihaha

5/3/2026 at 11:07:14 PM

It's kind of cheap. Obviously saying "Reform bad." without addressing why so many people think it's not bad. Banksy forgets that humans are humans and do human things.

by varispeed

5/3/2026 at 11:10:42 PM

My takeaway is "blind nationalism is idiotic and self defeating", but I'm not British. Is that about Reform (the party)?

by nielsbot

5/4/2026 at 12:01:24 AM

Yes, sort of anti-"illegal"-immigrant parties are a hot topic in the UK.

But this is kind of "water is wet" message.

by varispeed

5/4/2026 at 9:18:05 AM

Kind of shallow “makes you think huh” variety.

by blks

5/3/2026 at 10:39:20 PM

I doubt Banksy is a single person fwiw.

by slopinthebag

5/3/2026 at 11:07:39 PM

He is, but like most artists at his level the work and execution is primarily produced by others. He's a brand manager at this point.

by phainopepla2

5/3/2026 at 10:41:21 PM

He's also Satoshi.

by delichon

5/3/2026 at 11:02:55 PM

and Elvis

by bdangubic

5/4/2026 at 3:00:55 PM

He's Robin Gunningham but probably has freinds.

by tim333

5/3/2026 at 10:49:11 PM

There's most definitely many people involved in Banksy's art - but consensus seems to be forming that it's a man named Robin Gunningham [1].

1. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/global-a...

by sudb

5/3/2026 at 9:07:03 PM

It took me a minute to figure out why I think it's lame.

I suspect that Banksy and his fans are sure that it's "the other" Britons that are blinded, it's not a self-reflection prompt for them. Maybe I am wrong.

Maybe a more powerful piece of art would have that self reflection effect across the board. As is it feels about as nuanced as "fuck trump" and similar. If you already agree you already agree, if not then you just think it's stupid. So ultimately feels like impotent art unless I am totally misunderstanding.

by xyzelement

5/3/2026 at 9:20:16 PM

So many people connect this to political topics... For me this is the genius thing about the statue. Seems to be, that quite a lot people are so wrapped up in political debates and political positions, that it has to have political meaning. Maybe this statue is the exact opposit thing of a political message.

by lschueller

5/4/2026 at 2:59:29 PM

>about as nuanced as "fuck trump"

the fact that it has many different interpretations in this thread suggest it's more nuanced than that. Though it's not some super subtle thing you have to be an art expert to understand, I'll give you.

by tim333

5/3/2026 at 11:13:29 PM

> It took me a minute to figure out why I think it's lame.

> Maybe a more powerful piece of art would have that self reflection effect across the board. As is it feels about as nuanced as "fuck trump" and similar. If you already agree you already agree, if not then you just think it's stupid.

So close. Based on your own statement, it appears that you disagree with the proposed thesis by this piece of art.

> So ultimately feels like impotent art unless I am totally misunderstanding.

Maybe you should re-examine why you think it is stupid/lame. Is it because it calls you out and you don't like that feeling?

by ninjagoo

5/4/2026 at 12:15:10 AM

"calls me out"?

by xyzelement

5/4/2026 at 12:58:19 AM

> "calls me out"?

i.e., as a member of the group of people represented by the statue?

by ninjagoo

5/3/2026 at 9:55:48 PM

Is it that important to decode what author thought when he was making it?

What if the design was made by generative model, does the statue become more or less valuable?

by lucketone

5/3/2026 at 10:01:03 PM

I don't think it's impotent at all.

I think you're wildly overestimating the general population's capacity for nuance.

Particularly in a world where nuance goes the same way as wood logs near a fire place.

by LightBug1

5/3/2026 at 9:28:39 PM

Yet us talking about it just prompted me to consider how that applies to my life, so something good came of it :)

by delusional

5/3/2026 at 9:28:17 PM

Are you trying to be ironic?

by fylo

5/4/2026 at 6:33:51 AM

This made me think of my favorite quote attributed to Einstein:

Nationalismus ist eine Kinderkrankheit. Er ist die Masern der Menschheit.

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."

... quote via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

by contingencies

5/4/2026 at 5:27:11 AM

this is going on since columbus. nothing new

by uwagar

5/3/2026 at 8:29:53 PM

Which flag?

by AlexandrB

5/3/2026 at 8:30:59 PM

The one he's carrying.

by rootlocus

5/3/2026 at 10:02:12 PM

And others in this thread were worried about it being too obvious ... ffs

by LightBug1

5/3/2026 at 8:30:59 PM

Any flag.

by shocks

5/3/2026 at 8:48:46 PM

A black flag!

by Simulacra

5/4/2026 at 6:52:10 AM

The only thing that we know about the flag is that it a fiberglass flag, so he must be obviously criticising the allegedly benefits of fiber in the diet.

As seen by the raised fist, the man is angry because the operation Epic Fiber has caused a blockage just in the strait of Trump, so is a metaphor about the dangers of having too much nuts in the world. Banski has planned also that the flag ends totally white by seagull activity; so this, always evolving and deceivingly simple piece of art, gives us hope for a future restoration of the blockage soon before we end nuking everybody on the process.

Denouncing the raise to nuttionalism while providing hope for the future. A powerful message.

See?, this is art, everybody can sell anything with a little practice. If they can sell a banana taped in a wall, so you can too.

by pvaldes

5/3/2026 at 9:35:37 PM

[flagged]

by BLKNSLVR

5/4/2026 at 1:53:09 PM

Controlled opposition.

by 6d6b73

5/3/2026 at 11:41:53 PM

This seems like more bigotry against marginalized individuals and shouldn't be celebrated. The message here is that (the few) elites helping build a progressive society are doing it wrong.

by sourcegrift

5/4/2026 at 1:23:51 AM

What elites are pushing for a progressive society? Doubling down on rule by capital holders isn't progressive, we have already seen it before.

by AngryData

5/3/2026 at 8:59:54 PM

Wind bad.

by slopinthebag

5/4/2026 at 5:33:23 AM

Now colour the flag rainbow colored. Or maybe black, white, green, and red. Or maybe white and red.

Whose flag is blinding whom?

by simianparrot

5/4/2026 at 3:25:35 PM

Sounds like you are talking about the South African flag.

by PokemonNoGo

5/4/2026 at 2:06:50 AM

Isn’t there coverage on any other site with fewer ads and popups? I could literally barely navigate the article on my phone.

by jaynate

5/3/2026 at 11:40:03 PM

[dead]

by cboyardee

5/3/2026 at 10:04:37 PM

[dead]

by jchip303

5/3/2026 at 8:28:42 PM

[flagged]

by Gongo_Emperor

5/3/2026 at 8:42:39 PM

[flagged]

by dickens5

5/3/2026 at 9:12:55 PM

Well, for a failing artist he is quite impactful, isn't he? News around the world reporting about it. People discussing it. This seems to be quite inspiring and anything else but failing.

by lschueller

5/3/2026 at 9:42:08 PM

Got you to comment, job done. Engagement: tick.

by BLKNSLVR

5/4/2026 at 2:01:14 AM

Ok boomer.

by _m_p

5/3/2026 at 9:18:23 PM

He definitely got a permit for that which makes the whole thing even more laughable

by haunter

5/4/2026 at 3:04:12 PM

He's no doubt not got a permit. However Banksy is something of a popular British institution these days.

by tim333

5/3/2026 at 9:35:11 PM

There's no definitely about that at all. The city of Westminster issued a statement that seems fairly clear that they were as surprised as everybody else but are taking steps to protect it.

by CPLX

5/3/2026 at 11:06:57 PM

Yeah, one of my distant friends is a councillor in a borough where Banksy did a mural years back and it was definitely much more about ensuring the standing "Send in workers to paint over any graffiti" reaction doesn't happen than some sort of "That's nice, the committee which issued the permit for this didn't tell me when it would happen". So far as she told me she heard about it the same way most people did, it was on the local news that morning.

by tialaramex

5/3/2026 at 10:15:26 PM

The idea that Banksy's identity is unknown is a complete myth perpuated by the popular press.

The guy is well known and very much part of the establishment.

by everfrustrated

5/3/2026 at 11:28:18 PM

> The idea that Banksy's identity is unknown is a complete myth perpuated by the popular press.

I know saying RTFA is supposed to be against the HN guidelines, but it takes an amazing amount of confidently ignorant chutzpah to declare something "a complete myth perpetuated by the popular press" when the subtitle of this article literally states:

> less than two months after a journalism investigation into Banksy’s true identity was published

by hn_throwaway_99

5/3/2026 at 10:17:47 PM

so why don't you share who it is with the rest of the class? why help perpetuate his (her?) secret identity mystique

by parpfish

5/3/2026 at 10:24:19 PM

> Banksy was born Robin Gunningham but later took the name David Jones

long been known as establishment friendly

by hactually

5/3/2026 at 10:37:02 PM

It's pretty obvious once you look at the art - it has a very specific political leaning, which also happens to have been the predominant one in the UK since Blair.

by neonstatic

5/3/2026 at 10:49:44 PM

Blind?

by throwaway27448

5/3/2026 at 10:40:57 PM

closet-fascist?

by actionfromafar

5/3/2026 at 10:44:14 PM

Europe has gone so far left-wing, that not-left-enough are called fascist :)

by neonstatic

5/3/2026 at 10:27:00 PM

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/global-a...

by jrflowers

5/3/2026 at 11:03:56 PM

He also ripped his style off Blek le Rat and the political element to his work is jejune.

by phainopepla2

5/3/2026 at 11:06:45 PM

Would you say that it's shallow and pedantic?

by pavel_lishin

5/3/2026 at 11:08:45 PM

Shallow yes, pedantic not really

by phainopepla2

5/3/2026 at 10:49:59 PM

I’ve been on this for 20 years. The guy has coffee table books! He cashes checks! He took something that was previously done anonymously and for free, put his name on it and started charging for it. Good luck to him, but anonymous he is not.

by songshu

5/3/2026 at 10:21:30 PM

[dead]

by NomDePlum

5/3/2026 at 10:17:43 PM

[flagged]

by celticninja

5/3/2026 at 10:23:24 PM

What are you talking about?

by slopinthebag

5/3/2026 at 8:38:11 PM

Who decides that this is from Banksy? I could make a stencil graffiti in my village and claim it's from Banksy and noone could prove me wrong. Or is he using a digital signature as proof of authorship?

by jansan

5/3/2026 at 8:40:26 PM

He posts on his Instagram to verify authenticity: https://www.instagram.com/p/DXwf7pis6KT

by matteason

5/3/2026 at 8:40:04 PM

If you want to know authenticity, you submit to https://pestcontroloffice.com/auth1.asp -- they verify / deny, and that is the final word.

by vessenes

5/3/2026 at 8:57:40 PM

Is that site for real? It almost seems like some kind of Monty Pythonesque humour site.

by bjourne

5/3/2026 at 9:02:46 PM

Yes it's real: https://banksy.co.uk/in.html (licensing)

by infinitewars

5/3/2026 at 8:40:27 PM

His agent would tell the media that your vandalism is not genuine

by seydor

5/4/2026 at 10:30:50 AM

This Bansky guy is the edgy middle schooler art

by coolca

5/4/2026 at 10:37:25 AM

This statue should be the symbol of "I am 14 and this is deep"

by postsantum

5/4/2026 at 6:45:59 AM

People are waking up to the decades of gaslighting and lies about failed immigration. It can't be stopped now. Nobody cares if they are called a "racist" because the word has been overused and is meaningless.

Much of the media relentlessly continues with its gaslighting of course because the establishment wants and needs immigration.

But people know they barely hear English in many parts of England, see high streets full of criminal fronts [0], know that many are a net tax drain, know an increased population is straining services and housing and so on.

It's about failed immigration - regardless if they're from Poland or from Pakistan.

It is ironically many on the left who are stupid and manipulated by the presence of some far right loons, which gives them a convenient excuse to listen to nobody except themselves. They are blinded by their own smugness and have been manipulated by the pro-immigration establishment sadly

[0] https://www.tradingstandards.uk/media/3183107/hidden-in-plai...

by gib444

5/4/2026 at 3:05:24 PM

Maybe but not sure how that relates to the statue?

by tim333

5/5/2026 at 5:26:44 AM

Er I thought it was obvious? The statue, which is a massive dig at nationalism/blind patriotism - or perhaps any love for your own country at all...

It's pretty offensive given how far the scales were balanced in the other direction for so long.

How did you interpret the statue?

by gib444

5/4/2026 at 8:38:17 AM

For some unknown reasons, the mainstream media wants to make sure i see this

Baby, psyop me, one more time

by WhereIsTheTruth

5/4/2026 at 8:43:55 AM

Next Banksy artwork should depict paranoid people who delude themselves to the point where they think everything is about them.

by spiderfarmer

5/4/2026 at 9:06:47 AM

A sheep is a sheep, biped or quadruped, it doesn't matter

by WhereIsTheTruth

5/4/2026 at 12:01:22 PM

Tinfoil is cheap.

by spiderfarmer

5/4/2026 at 7:10:00 PM

Yet still no chips

by WhereIsTheTruth

5/3/2026 at 8:35:17 PM

Really makes you think. I guess Palestine and Ukraine should just give up.

by MrBuddyCasino

5/4/2026 at 10:29:54 AM

No, you don’t understand, it’s only British national flags that are bad!

by rjinman

5/3/2026 at 8:45:14 PM

[flagged]

by dickens5

5/3/2026 at 9:09:07 PM

Israel should give up on the apartheid, genocide, and the war crimes. No one but the worst of the worst Zionists want to see the continuation of the last 80 years.

by ebbi

5/4/2026 at 12:07:49 AM

You can't seriously put Palestine and Ukraine in the same sentence like this.

by jojobas

5/4/2026 at 1:33:11 AM

Sure he can. Both of them have flags, and all flags are bad. They blow in your face and make you dumb. Why can't world be less dumb? So many dumb flag people. I do art.

by arduanika

5/4/2026 at 7:39:11 AM

So anyone can now place whatever they want in public space in UK or some people like Banksy are more equal than the other people? I find this statue offensive for double standards.

This should go quickly away unless they confirm he had official permit and he is just "anti-establishment" hipster.

by Markoff

5/4/2026 at 2:55:40 PM

I put my bin bags out on the pavement in Westminster too but the bastards seem to judge them as less artistic and take them away.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 4:39:26 AM

The final desperate shivers of a dying worldview, thats financially and socially so detached from the rest of the nation they couldn't even grasp when they got colonized.

by cineticdaffodil

5/4/2026 at 5:38:23 AM

Colonized by who?

by henry2023

5/4/2026 at 2:47:26 PM

A lot of Americans like Musk et al get upset that we have some muslim immigrants. You get a lot of this weird we're colonised stuff when it's actually about 7% of the population and we used to do a lot of real colonisation the other way around with British India and the like.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 6:21:39 PM

British people were never anywhere close to 7% of the population of British India.

by JuniperMesos

5/4/2026 at 8:11:43 PM

I was trying to say muslims are about 7% of the UK population.

by tim333

5/4/2026 at 8:04:35 AM

By you

by cineticdaffodil

5/3/2026 at 9:54:44 PM

Despite the denials, the answer is most likely this was all coordinated with LEAs.

  Some artists have questioned if Banksy, once considered anti-establishment, now enjoys special treatment from Britain's powers that be.

  In 2014, Vice Media asked: 'Why Is Banksy the Only Person Allowed to Vandalize Britain’s Walls?' The story quoted David Speed, a street artist who ran a British graffiti collective. "It's very much one rule for him and another rule for everyone else ... When street artists do it, it's vandalism. When Banksy does it, it's an art piece."

  Contacted by Reuters, Speed praised Banksy as "a really important artist of modern times." Yet he still wonders why "one artist should be able to have carte blanche and everyone else would be subject to penalties."

In Search of Banksy, https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/global-a... (2026).

by ignoramous

5/3/2026 at 10:02:56 PM

Not sure I agree it’s “most likely” when the linked article presents no evidence of LEA awareness or complicity, just one person speculating.

I know firsthand what can be done with a hardhat, clipboard, and high-viz vest. IMO it is far more likely that Banksy is just really good at social engineering in ways that other street artists are not.

by brookst

5/3/2026 at 10:27:11 PM

I imagine this just isn't that difficult to get away with. Most areas are basically empty in the early hours of the morning (even in the middle of the city). And people doing some kind of engineering or installation work at that time would also not be that unusual.

by nicoburns

5/3/2026 at 10:13:37 PM

The difference is that you'd get a police visit and your artwork torn down if you're not Banksy.

by noosphr

5/4/2026 at 6:34:49 AM

Just goes to show the power of his art. I don’t find that bit the least bit surprising but this inconsistency always has been at the heart of his art for me and to a large extent also what his work is about.

by arrrg

5/3/2026 at 10:45:47 PM

mainly because it's worth a lot of money...

by kerridge0

5/3/2026 at 10:45:47 PM

That doesn't mean it was coordinated.

by yreg

5/3/2026 at 10:09:36 PM

Plus this is pretty much the only street artist with worldwide name recognition; of course things are going to be different.

by adzm

5/3/2026 at 10:11:42 PM

[dead]

by huflungdung

5/4/2026 at 8:33:49 AM

Yes, London is famously free of surveillance and the Met is famously tolerant of political speech. Certainly, if someone had put up a statue of a pro-Palestine protester being blinded by a flag Sadiq Khan would just stand around being puzzled and letting things be. No question about it.

by mike_hearn

5/4/2026 at 2:20:22 PM

Oh, if you’re moving the goalposts from “Banksy had official support putting it up” to “the authorities reacted differently after the fact than they would have for others”, then I actually agree.

by brookst

5/4/2026 at 7:30:50 PM

Official support and not interfering with it being put up are nearly the same thing. It's not like throwing up a statue is some complex operation only governments can carry out.

by mike_hearn

5/7/2026 at 2:30:15 PM

“Officials knew in advance and helped or actively decided not to interfere” is NOT nearly the same thing as “Banksy’s team used social engineering to blend in and go unquestioned”.

The claim was that they had government assistance doing the project. IMO that’s just a conspiracy theory to explain what “bunch of construction workers with flatbed truck, traffic cones, and high viz vests” sufficiently explains.

by brookst