alt.hn

4/10/2026 at 4:45:40 PM

The difficulty of making sure your website is broken

https://letsencrypt.org/2026/04/10/test-sites.html

by mcpherrinm

4/10/2026 at 7:33:39 PM

In the same direction, I once wanted to test an embedded device on crap wifi.

So I just ordered the cheapest AP I could find.

Except the damn device worked perfectly. Slow but rock solid.

One of our testers at $CURRENT_JOB also has trouble simulating a crap network, because our network is good.

by nottorp

4/10/2026 at 9:51:10 PM

Coming up on 20 years ago I was building a system that was going to be deployed at various locations throughout a very large country. All locations had internet access; but the throughput, latency, and quality (e.g. packet drops) were all over the map.

For testing we ended up building a small linux box to proxy for the test environment in the office. We could throttle the throughput to any arbitrary level, introduce latency, and introduce packet drops. It's amazing how poorly a frontend will work when you throttle the network to 128kbps, and introduce a small percentage of dropped packets. But once you get the system to work (for some definition of "work") under those conditions you feel pretty good about deploying it.

by makr17

4/10/2026 at 8:27:12 PM

You can simulate bad wifi with the throttling option on the network tab of your browser's developer tools

by gnopgnip

4/11/2026 at 7:55:59 AM

> You can simulate bad wifi with the throttling option on the network tab of your browser's developer tools

Oh? How does that help for native applications?

> You can always also simulate bad WiFi by walking away from your access point until you have bad wifi

That's unfortunately very inconvenient when you work on an embeddeded device prototype that consists of several boards interconnected by hair thin wires :)

Maybe I should make some friends across the street to the point they give me access to their APs...

by nottorp

4/10/2026 at 9:26:43 PM

Slow networks != Bad networks. Bad networks could be slow, or drop random packets, or corrupt packets, or have jitter, etc

by patmorgan23

4/10/2026 at 11:30:10 PM

You can always also simulate bad WiFi by walking away from your access point until you have bad wifi

by SOLAR_FIELDS

4/10/2026 at 7:48:28 PM

Some proxies, iptables extensions, and OS-provided tools exist - there's almost certainly a combo that would work for them. What platform?

Unless it's for a custom physical device, then uh. idk. Probably something, proxying through another computer that is hosting a separate wifi network? But likely a lot harder.

by Groxx

4/10/2026 at 7:53:31 PM

I think he figured it out eventually, used some software tool. But I heard the complaining first.

by nottorp

4/10/2026 at 9:13:08 PM

I'm building a product that helps out Docker usage in poorly networked environments (ie, robotics deployments). I've just been moving the Jetson around the house.

by a_t48

4/10/2026 at 9:23:39 PM

Putting a StarLink dish so it has a tree branch in the way is a good way to get packet loss.

by callistocodes

4/11/2026 at 3:16:32 AM

Why not just loosely wrap the antenna or entire box in foil or move it to the basement/garage/roof?

If you're going for realism, bad wifi is a radio signal problem.

by sublinear

4/11/2026 at 4:56:16 AM

Not necessarily, it could also be on-band or off-bad interference, or bugs in the AP, or too many clients on the network.

by astrange

4/11/2026 at 12:19:12 AM

maybe look into jammers?

by NooneAtAll3

4/11/2026 at 5:32:21 AM

Not an option if you want to act lawfully.

by bigfatkitten

4/10/2026 at 5:11:46 PM

https://badssl.com/ also offers several test subdomains in the same vein.

by paulirish

4/10/2026 at 8:49:10 PM

badssl.com is an amazing tool especially for testing "TLS intercepting" boxes. I've seen more than one fortune 500 company that re-sign certain broken certs with their own CA, allowing silent MITM.

by NicolaiS

4/10/2026 at 5:57:42 PM

Interesting. Chrome (146, macOS) shows no error messages on the revoked cert pages, but Firefox does (also macOS).

by ipython

4/10/2026 at 6:02:34 PM

Yeah, Chrome only partly supports revocation (Not sure exactly the criteria, but our test sites don't match it).

by mcpherrinm

4/10/2026 at 6:39:48 PM

Same with Brave, so it is a Chromium thing.

by moralestapia

4/10/2026 at 6:15:47 PM

Vanadium, Chrome and Firefox (all for Android) all accept all the revoked certificates... But revoked.badssl.com is considered revoked

by lifis

4/10/2026 at 6:47:26 PM

> Vanadium, Chrome and Firefox (all for Android) all accept all the revoked certificates... But revoked.badssl.com is considered revoked

Firefox Beta (150.0b7) is accepting all of the revoked certs on my device

by RunningDroid

4/10/2026 at 11:49:12 PM

I don't think those certs are revoked yet.

by sureglymop

4/10/2026 at 5:27:16 PM

Meanwhile HTTP keeps working just fine and is decentralized.

Just "add your own crypto" on top, which is the ONLY thing a sane person would do.

3... 2... 1... banned?

by bullen

4/10/2026 at 7:26:44 PM

to actually tackle this (on the off chance you're serious, I'm assuming not) - this doesn't work.

The payload that implements your crypto cannot be delivered over http, because any intermediate party can just modify your implementation and trivially compromise it.

If you don't trust TLS, you have to pre-share something. In the case of TLS and modern browser security, the "pre-shared" part is the crypto implementation running in the browser, and the default trusted store of root CAs (which lives in the browser or OS, depending).

If you want to avoid trusting that, you've got to distribute your algorithm through an alternative channel you do trust.

by horsawlarway

4/11/2026 at 12:23:17 AM

> default trusted store of root CAs (which lives in the browser or OS, depending).

speaking of that, is there any way to verify that stored certificates are actually valid?

by NooneAtAll3

4/10/2026 at 8:21:08 PM

You are right presharing is a requirement, unless you hash the keys used to encrypt the secret into the secret itself, but that can only be prooven later on a channel where the same MITM is not present.

Work in progress, that said presharing solve(d/s) enough for the world to dump DNS and HTTPS in a bin and light it on fire now, because nobody has the power to implement all the MITM needed if everyone "makes their own crypto" on top of allready shared secrets!

Circular arguments, wishful thinking and all...

by bullen

4/10/2026 at 5:47:15 PM

Did you self-ban?

by xandrius

4/10/2026 at 6:02:02 PM

XD Nope, more like self destruct! ;)

by bullen