alt.hn

4/9/2026 at 12:00:33 AM

Previously unknown verses by Empedocles found on papyrus

 https://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/75792

by danielam

4/11/2026 at 6:53:42 PM

I think the image shown at the top right is the entire text that was discovered: because if you count all the lines (including even the ones where no mortal can see actual letters), you get 30. I admire the experts who can make sense out of it. Words are not separated by blanks. The first line in the second column may start with «ΚΑΙΤΟΙ ΠΩ…» ‹and yet wh…›. Below that perhaps «Η ΜΕΙΖΟΝ …» ‹or greater›. Further below even I can read clearly a «ΦΑΙΝΕΤΑΙ» ‹he / she / it appears›. Even further down I read «ΚΑΙ ΔΙΑ ΤΟΥΤΟΥ» ‹and through / per / via this›.

by amelung

4/12/2026 at 7:58:09 AM

Ah, you're right. "30 verses" made it sound like more than what you can see on that image. Luckily most of the papyrus is very legible! even if fragmented...

by aap_

4/11/2026 at 9:31:50 PM

Papyrologists are amazing. It takes a ton of training to be able to make sense of all those fragments.

by sapphicsnail

4/12/2026 at 1:07:09 AM

ΚΑΙ ΤΟΥΤΩ … Η ΜΕΙΖΟΝ… ΑΛΛΑ ΤΑ Δ ΑΜΦΟΤΕ… ΔΗΛΟΥΤΑΙ… ΠΕΥΣΗ ΠΑΝ ΓΑΡ ΦΑΙΝΕΤΑΙ.. ΚΟΙΛΑ.. ΦΑΣΜΑΤΑ … ΓΥΙΩΝ ΟΣΣΟΝ … ΜΕΙΖΟΝΑ … ΚΑΙ ΔΙΑ ΤΟΥΤΟΥ … ΟΥΤΕ ΩΤΑ .. ΟΥΔΑΝ ΓΛΩΣΣΑ …

by georgearvanitis

4/12/2026 at 2:16:54 AM

Not understanding Greek, I ran that through Google Translate (Greek -> English) just to see what it might say.

> AND THIS … THE MAJOR … BUT THE BOTH … ARE MEANING … PEUSIS PAN GAR SEEMS.. OBVIOUS.. SPECTRA … OF SONGS SO … MAJOR … AND THEREFORE … NOT EVEN EARS .. NO LANGUAGE

What form of Greek would that be? (I don't know much more than "ancient Greek" vs "modern Greek".)

by jdnier

4/12/2026 at 9:52:23 AM

I dunno, it's all Greek to me.

(I'll see myself out).

by pseudohadamard

4/11/2026 at 9:38:32 PM

Empedocles wrote in verse. Greek scientific writings used to be written entirely in verse instead of prose. He wrote in Latin, but a cool example of something like this that survived is Lucretius' On the Nature of things (De Rerum Natura).

by sapphicsnail

4/11/2026 at 6:53:44 PM

Fun fact about Empedocles, in Argentinian Spanish slang it means the one who is always drunk

by Izikiel43

4/11/2026 at 3:09:28 PM

So is there any way to actually read it? Or do i have to buy an obscure french book? can you even buy the book? Academic publishing/gatekeeping is such a joke.

by aap_

4/11/2026 at 6:40:59 PM

It's in the picture, I presume. Just gotta brush up on that Koine Greek. Or if you read Egyptian hieroglyphs already, you can use the Rosetta Stone to reconstruct the Koine Greek from first principles.

by marginalia_nu

4/11/2026 at 9:33:55 PM

It's not Koine and it's in verse.

by sapphicsnail

4/11/2026 at 7:02:09 PM

This feels like a knee-jerk reaction. While it may be a relevant critique of some news releases about academic research… this one literally contains a thumbnail with a link to a sufficiently-high-resolution image of the document. You can read it by clicking on the only image in the article.

by addaon

4/11/2026 at 4:17:16 PM

I'm hoping in these verses Empedocles complains about crappy copper from a Babylonian merchant.

by pfdietz

4/11/2026 at 3:24:41 PM

494 B.C.? Empedocles’ll DMCA you if you post them!

by bombcar

4/11/2026 at 5:40:16 PM

It will probably be processed into an edited edition and then published as a book.

by canjobear

4/11/2026 at 4:55:13 PM

I mean, it's still a pretty cool discovery.

by jblitzar

4/11/2026 at 5:20:04 PM

Probably! but how would i know?

by aap_