alt.hn

3/25/2026 at 8:05:17 AM

Why I forked httpx

https://tildeweb.nl/~michiel/httpxyz.html

by roywashere

3/25/2026 at 9:18:40 AM

What is it about Python that makes developers love fragmentation so much? Sending HTTP requests is a basic capability in the modern world, the standard library should include a friendly, fully-featured, battle-tested, async-ready client. But not in Python, stdlib only has the ugly urllib.request, and everyone is using third party stuff like requests or httpx, which aren't always well maintained. (See also: packaging)

by Kwpolska

3/25/2026 at 10:04:48 AM

You would think that sending HTTP requests is a basic capability, but I've had fun in many languages doing so. Long ago (2020, or not so long ago, depending on how you look at it) I was surprised that doing an HTTP request on node using no dependencies was a little awkward:

``` const response = await new Promise( (resolve, reject) => { const req = https.request(url, { }, res => { let body = ""; res.on("data", data => { body += data; }); res.on('end', () => { resolve(body); }); }); req.end(); });

```

by dirkc

3/25/2026 at 10:23:52 AM

These days node supports the fetch API, which is much simpler. (It wasn't there in 2020, it seems to have been added around 2022-2023.)

by wging

3/25/2026 at 10:15:09 AM

HTTP client is at the intersection of "necessary software building block" and "RFC 2616 intricacies that are hard to implement". Has nothing to do with Python really.

by ivanjermakov

3/25/2026 at 9:25:55 AM

> Then I found out it was broken. I contributed a fix. The fix was ignored and there was never any release since November 2024.

This seems like a pretty good reason to fork to me.

> Sending HTTP requests is a basic capability in the modern world, the standard library should include a friendly, fully-featured, battle-tested, async-ready client. But not in Python,

Or Javascript (well node), or golang (http/net is _worse_ than urllib IMO), Rust , Java (UrlRequest is the same as python's), even dotnet's HttpClient is... fine.

Honestly the thing that consistently surprises me is that requests hasn't been standardised and brought into the standard library

by maccard

3/25/2026 at 10:01:48 AM

What, Go's net/http is fantastic. I don't understand that take. Many servers are built on it because it's so fully featured out of the box.

by francislavoie

3/25/2026 at 10:47:34 AM

> dotnet's HttpClient is... fine.

Yes, and it's in the standard library (System namespace). Being Microsoft they've if anything over-featured it.

by pjc50

3/25/2026 at 9:35:20 AM

>Honestly the thing that consistently surprises me is that requests hasn't been standardised and brought into the standard library

Instead, official documentation seems comfortable with recommending a third party package: https://docs.python.org/3/library/urllib.request.html#module...

>The Requests package is recommended for a higher-level HTTP client interface.

Which was fine when requests were the de-facto-standard only player in town, but at some point modern problems (async, http2) required modern solutions (httpx) and thus ecosystem fragmentation began.

by localuser13

3/25/2026 at 10:05:21 AM

Well, the reason for all the fragmentation is because the Python stdlib doesn't have the core building blocks for an async http or http2 client in the way requests could build on urllib.

The h11, h2, httpcore stack is probably the closest thing to what the Python stdlib should look like to end the fragmentation but it would be a huge undertaking for the core devs.

by Spivak

3/25/2026 at 9:51:20 AM

Node now supports the Fetch API.

by Kwpolska

3/25/2026 at 10:23:48 AM

What's wrong with Go's? I've never had any issues with it. Go has some of the best http batteries included of any language

by umvi

3/25/2026 at 8:44:11 AM

the http landscape is rather scary lately in Python. instead of forking join forces... See Niquests https://github.com/jawah/niquests

I am trying to resolve what you've seen. For years of hard work.

by mesahm

3/25/2026 at 9:10:43 AM

Is it knee-quests or nigh-quests?

I've started seeing these emoji-prefixed commits lately now too, peculiar

by duskdozer

3/25/2026 at 9:17:13 AM

There is a series of extensions for Vscode that add this functionality like https://github.com/ugi-dev/better-commits

by u_sama

3/25/2026 at 9:28:25 AM

ah ok, I am familiar with and not exactly against (non-emoji) commit message prefixes

by duskdozer

3/25/2026 at 9:17:53 AM

it's the gitmoji thing, I really don't like it, it was a mistake. Thinking to stop it soon. I was inspired by fastapi in the early days. I prefer conventionalcommits.org

by mesahm

3/25/2026 at 9:57:29 AM

Please don't be too much inspired by FastAPI - at least regarding maintainer bus factor and documentation (FastAPI docs are essentially tutorial only), and requiring dozens of hoops to jump through to even open an issue.

by croemer

3/25/2026 at 10:00:56 AM

agreed. as I said, it was a mistake from my end. and clearly looking to better myself.

by mesahm

3/25/2026 at 9:15:13 AM

nee-quests, I am French native.

by mesahm

3/25/2026 at 9:34:04 AM

I guess kind of obvious now noticing the rhyme

by duskdozer

3/25/2026 at 10:37:18 AM

Thanks, I'll link to your project

by roywashere

3/25/2026 at 9:03:31 AM

It is indeed a shame that niquests isn't used more, I think trying to use the (c'est Français) argument to in French will bring you many initial users needed for the inertia

by u_sama

3/25/2026 at 9:07:39 AM

ahah, "en effet"! je m'en souviendrai.

more seriously, all that is needed is our collective effort. I've done my part by scarifying a lot of personal time for it.

by mesahm

3/25/2026 at 8:55:57 AM

The basis of httpx is not very good at all.

I think that it owes its success to be first "port" of python requests to support async, that was a strong need.

But otherwise it is bad: API is not that great, performance is not that great, tweaking is not that great, and the maintainer mindset is not that great also. For the last point, few points were referenced in the article, but it can easily put your production project to suddenly break in a bad way without valid reason.

Without being perfect, I would advise everyone to switch to Aiohttp.

by greatgib

3/25/2026 at 9:01:15 AM

aiohttp is an excellent library. very stable. I concurs, but! it's too heavily tied to HTTP/1, and well, I am not a fan of opening thousands of TCP conn just to keep up with HTTP/2 onward. niquests easily beat aiohttp just using 10 conn and crush httpx see https://gist.github.com/Ousret/9e99b07e66eec48ccea5811775ec1...

fwiw, HTTP/2 is twelve years old, just saying.

by mesahm

3/25/2026 at 9:01:35 AM

aiohttp is for asynchronous contexts only

by sammy2255

3/25/2026 at 8:54:17 AM

Can confirm, more features, a breeze to switch.

by Orelus

3/25/2026 at 8:30:56 AM

Somehow I confused httpx with htmlx

by swiftcoder

3/25/2026 at 9:23:51 AM

I guess you mean htmx. Same here. I read the article for a while, and was confused by "HTTPX is a very popular HTTP client for Python." and wondering "why is OpenAI using htmx", until I eventually realized what's going on.

by g947o

3/25/2026 at 9:00:24 AM

And also htmlx with htmx I guess?

by eknkc

3/25/2026 at 10:13:20 AM

I've been reading the whole article wrong too.

by jordiburgos

3/25/2026 at 8:49:16 AM

Same! Only just realized it thanks to your comment.

by croemer

3/25/2026 at 8:49:44 AM

More related drama: The Slow Collapse of MkDocs (https://fpgmaas.com/blog/collapse-of-mkdocs/)

by ayhanfuat

3/25/2026 at 9:26:26 AM

>thread to call out Read the Docs for profiting from MkDocs without contributing back.

>They also point out that not opening up the source code goes against the principles of Open Source software development

I will never stop being amused when people have feelings like this and also choose licenses like BSD (this project). If you wanted a culture that discouraged those behaviors, why would you choose a license that explicitly allows them? Whether you can enforce it or not, the license is basically a type of CoC that states the type of community you want to have.

by duskdozer

3/25/2026 at 9:03:41 AM

Oh i recognised one of the involved people immediately, drama person.

I still think that hijacking the mkdocs package was the wrong way to go though.

The foss landscape has become way too much fork-phobic.

Just fork mkdocs and go over your merry way.

by znpy

3/25/2026 at 9:23:04 AM

Drama around Starlette. Drama around httpx. Drama around MkDocs. I just hope that DRF is not next, I still have some projects that depend on it.

by rglullis

3/25/2026 at 9:43:59 AM

What's the drama around starlette? (Can't find anything)

by forkerenok

3/25/2026 at 10:00:06 AM

[dead]

by kwsp

3/25/2026 at 10:04:48 AM

Right, my suspicion was correct. When I interacted with them a few years ago they seemed perfectly nice and friendly, but seem to have gone off the rails more recently. It's an uncomfortable situation and I've a feeling people are afraid to discuss this kind of thing but we really need to. People are a risk factor in software projects and we need to be resilient to changes they face. Forking is the right way, but places like GitHub have sold people on centralisation. We need to get back to decentralised dev.

by globular-toast

3/25/2026 at 9:05:30 AM

Congratulations on forking!

Always remember that open-source is an author’s gift to the world, and the author doesn’t owe anything to anyone. Thus, if you need a feature that for whatever reason can’t or won’t go upstream, forking is just about the only viable option. Fingers crossed!

by nathell

3/25/2026 at 10:06:15 AM

This is not merely open-source, but taking part in a huge package ecosystem in a foundational role in an XKCD 2347 type of way for HTTP requests.

Put your side project on your personal homepage and walk away - fine.

Make it central infrastructure - respond to participants or extend or cede maintainership.

by cachius

3/25/2026 at 10:54:08 AM

A foundational role in a huge open-source package ecosystem? I wonder what such an esteemed position pays.

by duskdozer

3/25/2026 at 10:49:56 AM

If "taking part in a huge ecosystem in a foundational role" means 'other people using your OSS software', and I can't think of what else it would mean, then no, you have no obligation to do any of that.

OSS means the right to fork. That's all it means. That's all it ever meant. Any social expectations beyond that live entirely in your imagination.

by troad

3/25/2026 at 9:43:22 AM

I'm not a lawyer, but are there any potential trademark issues? AFAIK in general you HAVE to change the name to something clearly different. I consider it morally OK, and it's probably fine, but HTTPXYZ is cutting it close. It's too late for a rebrand, but IMO open-source people often ignore this topic a bit too much.

by localuser13

3/25/2026 at 9:49:47 AM

Don't you need to register and actively defend you trademark for it to apply?

by CorrectHorseBat

3/25/2026 at 9:50:08 AM

Is httpx trademarked? I couldn't find anything indicating it was.

by Gander5739

3/25/2026 at 9:50:17 AM

I don't think HTTPX is a registered trademark.

by ahoka

3/25/2026 at 9:53:33 AM

He would probably win in a legal case, but is he actually going to take it to court? I doubt it. Also I wouldn't be too offended about the name if I were him and for users it's better because it makes the link clearer.

I think if had named it HTTPX2 or HTTPY, that would be much worse because it asserts superiority without earning it. But he didn't.

by IshKebab

3/25/2026 at 9:22:39 AM

Good line from the blog post ...

"So what is the plan now?" - "Move a little faster and not break things"

by glaucon

3/25/2026 at 9:44:42 AM

The lack of a well-maintained async HTTP client in Python's stdlib has been a pain point for a while. Makes sense someone eventually took it into their own hands

by zeeshana07x

3/25/2026 at 9:11:57 AM

> Visitor 4209 since we started counting

Loved that little detail, reminds me of the old interwebs :)

by mettamage

3/25/2026 at 9:59:14 AM

It's gone from 45 when I looked at it an hour ago to 261 just now.

by croemer

3/25/2026 at 10:11:51 AM

Do you see yourself taking over httpcore as well as it's likely to have the same maintainership problem? It would certainly instill more confidence that this is a serious fork.

This certainly wouldn't be the first time an author of a popular library got a little too distracted on the sequel to their library that the current users are left to languish a bit.

by Spivak

3/25/2026 at 8:47:51 AM

Hi Michiel!

Just a small headsup: clicking on the Leiden Python link in your About Me page give not the expected results.

And a small nitpick: it's "Michiel's" in English (where it's "Michiels" in Dutch).

Thanks for devoting time to opensource... <3

by cies

3/25/2026 at 8:42:20 AM

It's a shame, httpx has so much potential to be the default Python http library. It's crazy that there isn't one really. I contributed some patches to the project some years ago now and it was a nice and friendly process. I was expecting a v1 release imminently. It looks like the author is having some issues which seem to afflict so many in this field for some reason. I notice they've changed their name since I last interacted with the project...

by globular-toast

3/25/2026 at 10:30:16 AM

[dead]

by federicodeponte

3/25/2026 at 9:01:26 AM

[dead]

by paseante

3/25/2026 at 9:41:32 AM

smells like supply chain attack

by eats_indigo