3/13/2026 at 5:40:38 PM
> Neanderthal skulls have huge brow ridges and lack chins, with a projecting midface that results in more prominent noses. But the recreated face suggests those differences were not so stark in life.This surprised me enough to scroll back up and look at the reconstruction again, because it looks the woman definitely has (what I would think of as) a chin--which supports the "not so stark in real life" part. But if the skulls are that different, how would a Neanderthal face end up looking so similar to a human's? Did they have cartilage or something that doesn't get preserved in these skeletal remains?
by cryzinger
3/13/2026 at 5:44:38 PM
Whatever the differences, they would have been attractive enough to Homo Sapiens to breed with.by quantified
3/13/2026 at 6:00:39 PM
Maybe not willingly, though. Look up Danny Vendramini's neanderthal predation theory, and consider that modern X chromosomes carry no neanderthal DNA, indicating that all interbreeding involved neanderthal males and human females.by bediger4000
3/13/2026 at 7:42:03 PM
A man passes his X chromosome (inherited from his mother) to any daughters. Any female offspring of a neanderthal father and a homo sapiens mother would have a neanderthal X chromosome and a sapiens X chromosome. If it's true that there's no neanderthal DNA on modern X chromosomes, this is not the cause.What would be stronger evidence for an absence of neanderthal mothers among neanderthal/sapiens hybrid children would be a lack of neanderthal mitochondrial RNA in modern populations. This would point in the direction of no neanderthal grandmothers for us modern humans, though I'd be reluctant to present this as solid evidence. Maybe sapiens mitochondrial RNA is just better and there's selective pressure against neanderthal mitochondrial RNA.
None of this is to suggest that all neanderthal/sapiens couplings were loving affectionate parents. Just that the absence of neanderthal DNA on modern X chromosomes means nothing in this context.
by loudmax
3/13/2026 at 6:09:00 PM
> consider that modern X chromosomes carry no neanderthal DNA, indicating that all interbreeding involved neanderthal males and human femalesThis is a false implication, it’s possible that Neanderthal X chromosome just doesn’t “play nice” with human dna, and can’t result in fertile offspring. Admittedly I have not read the sources you recommend, so maybe they address this?
by pinkmuffinere
3/13/2026 at 7:03:59 PM
Or Neanderthal women lived with their tribe and their hybrid children died with that Neanderthal tribe, whereas modern human women and their hybrid children (or at least the ones who have living descendants) lived with modern human tribes and had a better chance of survival.by joshuaissac
3/13/2026 at 8:44:30 PM
Actually I don't think this would be able to explain the observed evidence. Consider this path:1. Neanderthal woman "Ann" mates with Human man "Hugh"
2. Ann gives birth to son "Ander", who is then raised with neanderthals. Notably, Ander has human Y chromosome via Hugh, but Neanderthal X chromosome via Ann.
3. Ander mates with human woman "Uma". They have a daughter, passing Neanderthal X chromosome into human population.
I realize this is a very specific path, but it would _only have to happen once_ for the neanderthal X chromosome to be introduced into the human genome. I think it is very unlikely that such a path would simply never happen across the thousands of interactions we had. And therefore I think the observed fact (no impact of neanderthal x chromosome in modern genes) can't _just_ be explained by the proposed behavior (neanderthal mothers raise their children in their neanderthal tribe)
I think there does actually have to be some sort of incompatibility, or some other very-very-high failure rate, something like 99.99%.
by pinkmuffinere
3/13/2026 at 10:58:13 PM
If first-order hybrids made up only a small proportion of the total population of humans and Neanderthals, then the probability that a pairing between a member of a modern human tribe and a member of a Neanderthal tribe would involve a first-order hybrid is quite small. Like if there are 2 hybrids in a 150-strong tribe at the frontier, and a cross-tribe pairing happens, there is about a 1.3% chance that it involves a hybrid, and half of that that the gender matches up. Even with a higher estimate of 5% hybrids in a tribe, it's a 1.67% chance for a match with the right gender.And when that chance is realised, and a second-order hybrid is produced, the high child mortality rates of the time would put downward pressure on their numbers. Not zero, but a couple of orders of magnitudes lower than first-order hybrids.
First-order hybrid being having one parent from a Neanderthal tribe, other from a human tribe. Second-order hybrid additionally having at least one parent as a first-order hybrid (as in your step 3).
Also, there actually is Neanderthal DNA in the modern X chromosome. If in your step 2, Ann gives birth to a daughter Andrea, the daughter would have a Neanderthal X chromosome, and she can pass it on within her tribe. But she would have no Neanderthal mtDNA, which is only passed on maternally.
But there is other data that this model does not explain. Like, why is there no Neanderthal contribution to the modern Y chromosome?
by joshuaissac
3/14/2026 at 12:13:35 AM
I don’t have much experience in this field, so I can’t give satisfying answers to your questions. However, you said two things that I find very interesting:> Also, there actually is Neanderthal DNA in the modern X chromosome.
> why is there no Neanderthal contribution to the modern Y chromosome?
I think both of these claims contradict the parent! I’m not sure which is correct, I’ve never looked into this before, and was simply trusting that bediger4000‘s assertion about the X chromosome was true. But it seems the opposite is true?
by pinkmuffinere
3/13/2026 at 7:17:18 PM
> This is a false implicationNo, but it is an overconfident assertion.
Maybe all neanderthalis x sapiens were the results of rape. Maybe the fetuses were only viable from the n. sperm to s. eggs. Maybe something else.
All are possible.
by IAmBroom
3/13/2026 at 9:52:39 PM
Vendramini's theory appears to be built upon some fairly extraordinary ideas that are not supported by actual evidence. In fact some of his claims (e.g. about face shape and skull placement) are directly contradicted by actual evidence. It's probably worth approaching this with some scepticism.by m4x
