3/6/2026 at 2:20:11 PM
I do not see the tourism industry mentioned here but I have to imagine that is a huge loss right now.Most of the world is not visiting the US right now which means projects and planning that was made in anticipation for summer has probably been halted or heavily reduced.
by testfrequency
3/6/2026 at 2:30:13 PM
There is a significant majority of people in Canada who not only vocally decided to not go to US but discourage their friends from doing so too. People have judged me for driving through the states.by cheesecompiler
3/6/2026 at 2:39:30 PM
Last year we cancelled a planned US vacation, this year we didn't even think about it. Going back to Europe two years in a row. I don't give a fuck about tariff policy of our supposed "friends" but when our "friend" repeatedly threatens our independence and sovereignty, no thanks. Not going to step into the USA for a long time.by TwoNineA
3/6/2026 at 2:56:04 PM
Can't blame you. Coming from the US I have been making a point to vacation in Canada, fwiw.Short of voting, protesting and getting into arguments with MAGA people I don't know what else I can effectively do.
by gaoshan
3/6/2026 at 4:26:22 PM
I surprised more US folks dont visit Canada, its amazing, much safer, and cheaper for them because of the exchange difference. Im guessing they see prices in CAD ($), and think its more expensive, but not realizing that $1 of theirs buys $1.35 CAD.by icecube123
3/6/2026 at 4:55:18 PM
It's probably just that it doesn't feel like there's much to "get" there.If you go south you get sun and beaches. The coastal regions of Canada will be comparable to the coastal regions of New England and the Pacific Northwest, so there's no need to go all the way there if that's the sort of beach you're looking for.
Likewise your outdoors, your cities and restaurants and museums are all going to be about the same as the options available in the US, just further away. It's not really "exotic".
We don't really have the same emigrant relationship with Canada; my grandfather's family spent a couple generations in Canada, but my mother only found out about it after he died. He considered his family to be Irish and to have come from Ireland; that they came to the US via a couple of generations spent in New Brunswick was never a part of the family lore.
So there's no real "visiting the home of my ancestors" sort of feeling you'd otherwise see.
by saalweachter
3/7/2026 at 10:14:30 AM
> It's not really "exotic".I don't know about "exotic", but for anyone living in the northeast of the US, the easiest way to visit Europe (sort of) is to drive up to Montreal/Quebec.
by jjav
3/7/2026 at 1:20:46 PM
Or they can go to St Augustine, New Orleans, or mid Manhattan to also get that Euro-Architecture feel (sort of).Having been to Europe, no comparison.
Nothing prepares you for walking along a city street then “oh fuck, a castle…” and learning that it is now, the city’s government building. Cool… (Stuttgart, you’re awesome)
by reactordev
3/11/2026 at 8:34:43 AM
Not the same due to language. Any US city is still US english, so will not feel very international.by jjav
3/7/2026 at 1:53:15 PM
New Orleans is pretty far from the northeast, and Montreal has the 18yo drinking age if you're in the 18-21 age bracket.by nixon_why69
3/7/2026 at 2:10:03 PM
New Orleans has had about a 20-30% falloff at least in receiptsby selimthegrim
3/6/2026 at 7:02:51 PM
Museums and public art galleries are notably worse in Canada, honestly.But, I think there some unique things worth seeing for an American: The old parts of Montreal/Quebec city, and the Alberta Rockies, especially the corridor between Banff and Jasper.
by badc0ffee
3/6/2026 at 7:13:16 PM
Sure, yeah, but you say "Alberta Rockies" and I think "Ah, yes, because the US is notably lacking good scenic parks in the Rocky Mountains."by saalweachter
3/6/2026 at 7:26:13 PM
I'm saying this after having seen the Rockies in both countries.by badc0ffee
3/7/2026 at 1:19:08 AM
Banff is much better than Vail or Jackson Hole though. I would even say better than Tahoe, if not for the lake.by fakedang
3/7/2026 at 1:40:11 AM
It's not so much what's better as whether it's different enough to attract a significant tourist group from areas with similar attractions nearby.Like, if you want to see a rain forest or a thousand year old Buddhist temple or a pyramid, there's not really a substitute in the continental US.
But if you've two options, where you can go to the pretty good option domestically or drive past it and continue on to the much better option in another country ... most people will be happy with the closer option, even if there's some small number of people who want the best or have seen all the closer options before and want something different or just whimsically like the idea of going to the further-away one none of their friends have been to.
by saalweachter
3/7/2026 at 3:08:01 AM
> if you want to see a rain forest or a thousand year old Buddhist temple or a pyramid, there's not really a substitute in the continental USMinor nitpick, but there are temperate rain forests in the continental United States. What we don’t have are tropical rain forests.
by trogdor
3/7/2026 at 4:41:21 AM
Spent a delightful weekend in Quebec last month. Beautiful city, great culture, friendly people, best damn duck I have ever eaten in the a resteraunt they must having teleported from southern Franceby danfunk
3/7/2026 at 1:49:22 AM
[dead]by tosapple
3/6/2026 at 6:47:22 PM
I don't visit Canada for the same reason I don't do a whole lot of touristy stuff here in the US: The travel costs aren't really _that_ much cheaper vs going somewhere more exotic like South America, Europe, Asia, etc, and it feels a bit too much like "home".Living on the west coast, Vancouver's the easiest to get to -- I love Vancouver (and Victoria), and I've been both places several times, and I've gone to Whistler a handful of times as well, but, again, it's a lot like where I grew up in Seattle.
I really do want to visit Montreal sometime, but I also want to visit Chicago and Memphis and a lot of other "domestic" locations that I somehow never find the time for.
Also, when you grow up in a country you have a lot of local knowledge from culture, friends, television, education, so we just know a lot more about domestic places we haven't (yet) visited. Plus, a substantial number of people don't have passports. We used to be able to visit Canada easily without one, now we cannot.
by rconti
3/7/2026 at 7:25:00 AM
Montreal is the exception to the rule about Canada not being differentiated enough from the US to encourage tourism. It really is quite different than anywhere in the US, it’s more like going to a funny speaking part of France without having to travel so far. They also mostly speak English, which makes it a bit less exotic but more convenient.by smugma
3/6/2026 at 7:37:34 PM
Canada is great. Montreal feels like a stylish and fun European city.As a film lover, I've been to the Toronto film festival many times, it's an unmatched experience--so many things to see, and watch films with a very engaged festival crowd just makes them better. (In the same way, even if you don't love Star Wars, going on opening weekend, with the most enthusiastic fans, makes the experience better.) And given that nearly half of Toronto's population was born outside of Canada, it makes even New York feel a little parochial.
by msabalau
3/6/2026 at 4:49:56 PM
With a few possible exceptions, Canada isn't really cheaper for US tourists. They get more CAD for their US dollars, but most prices in Canada are scaled up accordingly, so it ends up being pretty much the same or more expensive.by tavavex
3/6/2026 at 6:57:38 PM
I think there are some parts of Canada worth visiting from the US:* Montreal - it's a big-ish city, without piss in the subways. Also the restaurant scene is good, and the old town is worth seeing.
* Quebec City - again, the old town is worth seeing. There's not much else in the US/Canada like it.
* Alberta Rockies - The corridor between Banff and Jasper is beautiful. Also, Waterton is decent. It's right across the border from Glacier NP in Montana, but less crowded. And for skiers, the Alberta Rockies also probably had the best snow in North America this past year.
by badc0ffee
3/6/2026 at 4:35:12 PM
> I surprised more US folks dont visit Canada, its amazing, much safer, and cheaper for them because of the exchange difference.1. A lot of people can't afford vacations right now
2. For people in the US, socially and culturally, there's not much of a "drive" or desire to visit Canada. I've worked for Canadian companies, etc. I've never once in my entire life heard somebody talk about visiting Canada. It's always someplace warm and tropical or it's Europe or Asia.
by esseph
3/6/2026 at 5:25:57 PM
Visiting Quebec from the East Coast is great. Driving distance, plus Montreal and Quebec City are both different enough to feel like you’ve gone somewhere different. Plus the people are just really nice.by Dan_-
3/6/2026 at 11:51:49 PM
I love the food in Montreal, but not the roads!If you mean North East US, that whole area is a different thing. You guys (US NE + Eastern Canada) are practically neighbors compared to Miami, Houston, or Los Angeles folks :) Also probably more used to the cold!
by esseph
3/6/2026 at 7:38:33 PM
Quick question about US folks traveling to Canada: are cars with US plates being vandalized in Canada? I was thinking to drive and stay in Vancouver for a few days but I would not want to get a graffiti on my car (or worse)by dh2022
3/6/2026 at 8:19:33 PM
As long as you don't have a MAGA bumper sticker, I doubt it. Most Canadians have some American friends, so we're usually pretty good at separating "Americans" from "the American government".Especially in Vancouver, most people should be pretty aware that anyone with Washington/Oregon plates (which I'm guessing is what you have) probably hates Trump more than they do.
by gucci-on-fleek
3/7/2026 at 4:55:56 PM
In Vancouver specifically, they'd have issues distinguishing your car from any others on the road, because there's lots of foreign (US/Alberta) plates there for some reason (I understand it's some insurance thing). At least, that seemed to be the case when I was there recently.by mook
3/7/2026 at 12:07:19 AM
I can’t imagine that happening almost anywhere in Canada. Seems like some sort of old wives tale.by dnemmers
3/7/2026 at 1:43:22 AM
No, most people recognize a government isn’t reflective of individual people and are kind. If anything you’ll be more likely to be let in on the road if you are in the wrong lane assuming you don’t know where you are going. Having said that I wouldn’t wear/sticker political messaging, namely Trump and MAGA given current realities, but really of any type.by zeagle
3/7/2026 at 1:32:59 PM
> but really of any type.I've never understood why somebody behind me on the road would care at all about what my political views were anyway. I guess I get it during an election, maybe (in a grammar school "inventor contest" which happened to be during the 1980 US presidential election, I invented a bumper sticker sleeve that attaches to your car, so you could swap out political bumper stickers after your candidate lost. I didn't win the contest.) But in the end I don't really understand putting any sort of social signaling of any kind on my cars, though it seems hard to avoid even by just the kind of car you drive.
Closer to topic, I've always thoroughly enjoyed my trips to Canada, and can't imagine why people think "it's just like the US, so why bother" as seems to have been expressed ny some in this thread. I somewhat recently drove up to Roberval, Quebec from my home in New England, and it was absolutely nothing like the US. I find the rural Quebecois very odd, refreshingly direct, and enjoyable to hang out with.
by technothrasher
3/7/2026 at 6:08:30 PM
I'd take that election atmosphere and then recognize Canadians are living in a charged environment with cost of living/quality of life/economy changing and uncertainty. Many Canadians see Trump & his with the de facto support he has (in that nothing has been done about it despite posturing) as a threat and root cause of much of it. Not all of that's true or due to him or the US. But it means nobody down there will meaningfully protect Canada with his threats/economic war if they can't even block his domestic chaos. Folks are happy to see other folks and appreciate visitors but they also recognize a threat. Just like in America. So agree why publicize foreign political views.Perhaps in the white vs black experience lens that most of my US friends seem to see every world conflict through to relate to their own history (wild conversations about Middle Eastern politics there being racial), it's like wearing something racially inflammatory to the wrong neighbourhood. If one's blowing $$,$$$ on bespoke fly in tourism you can probably get away with it with a polite topic change as tourism keeps food on the table, but park a Trump sticker on a residential street I'd be surprised if even in the nicest neighbourhood there isn't some damage to it. Likely from a teenager goofing off with friends in the current environment.
To the second individually most Americans are nice in my experience, if you are seen as a person and not anonymous in the crowd. I've had a family member get a rifle leveled at them for stepping over a property line in the US where clearly they weren't seen as a fellow human... what can I say to that or the normalization of it.
by zeagle
3/6/2026 at 6:01:09 PM
Well... they have to interact with the ICE and similar US-Gestapo shit at the border.Not surprised they want to keep safely within their "East-USA" territory and go nowhere. No one wants to be disappeared in Ecuador.
by realo
3/7/2026 at 2:12:15 AM
We recently went to Niagara falls on the Canadian side and it was fun. Canadian sales taxes and fees took some of the currency difference, but yes we had a decent deal on a steak dinner in the tourist trap.by flerchin
3/6/2026 at 3:28:05 PM
So this. A year ago my wife and I did a road trip up into Canada (Kelowna BC region). It was a new experience. I’ve been up into Canadian provinces many times (20+ over the years), but because of the anti Canadian rhetoric that Trump and company were putting out at the time, I was embarrassed and eager for people to not actually know I was from the states. I was hyper aware of the Washington state license plates on our car. I have never felt that way before. Ashamed to be an American. Afraid of the association it implied. Anxious that people would be reductionist, unable to realize that I was not just an American, but a frustrated helpless American.The Canadian people I met as we travelled were all amazing. I was humbled that they took time to talk. And were less interested in identity than issues. One older gentleman, who saw us pull into the McDonalds with Washington plates approached us in the foyer and wanted to tell me that despite what others might say, I was welcome there. It was on one hand kinda weird and at the same time really touching.
by travisgriggs
3/6/2026 at 4:08:50 PM
I just saw this recent survey about whether or not people view their fellow citizens as morally good. Canada ranks first, with 92% respondents answering affirmatively.It's not hard to imagine people like these extending their good will to foreigners, even "hostile" ones.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2026/03/05/in-25-countr...
In contrast, "The United States is the only place we surveyed where more adults (ages 18 and older) describe the morality and ethics of others living in the country as bad (53%) than as good (47%)."
by pibaker
3/6/2026 at 3:35:40 PM
This is true in most scenarios, and the opposite is also true – that Americans are famously friendly, and even though Canadians may not want to visit to make a point, I think even they would agree that most day to day interactions they'd have would be warm and welcoming.There might be a bit more hockey ribbing for the next few weeks, but I know there's a ton of respect for Canada's team.
At the end of the day, the idea of "My problem is with the government, and not the people" is as old as time.
by atonse
3/6/2026 at 3:57:22 PM
I am also a Canadian who has decided not to visit the US until further notice, and honestly, I'm sad about it.In my 20+ years of regularly travelling to the States, I've almost always had great interactions with the people I've met in all parts of the US I've visited, and I've been all over. "Warm and welcoming" is a very good description.
I hope to be able to visit again in the future.
by sbarre
3/6/2026 at 4:22:27 PM
I think you’re all within your right to keep your distance from us. Our disgraceful leadership, even if it doesn’t accurately represent our people, we must suffer under it but no reason for you to do the same. We just hope you’re aware it’s only a few more years and we can begin to heal the whole relationship with more sane leaders that hopefully do see the strength and value in a positive relationship with a northern neighbor.If not, please send help or accept our political refugees because we will have become permanently screwed if this behavior continues past our current orange phase.
by conductr
3/6/2026 at 7:37:27 PM
> [...]even if it doesn’t accurately represent our peopleI beg to differ, seeing that the US had free and fair elections - media bias aside.
by overfeed
3/7/2026 at 4:16:43 PM
Elections are not good sample of our collective values. The approval rating is quite low and is probably a better measure.But when it comes to elections, first, somehow “we” get 2 bad choices every time. This last time, I personally feel they were 2 incredibly terrible choices. Then the fumbling from the other side basically assured orange man’s victory. It was a disaster of an election (but sadly appropriate as it seems like every thing we do is a disaster now.)
We also have a low voter turnout. So the result isn’t really complete and probably has some bias.
We also have an electoral college which means the winner can have less than 50% of the popular vote and win.
I could probably go on but I feel the point has been made that election outcomes are not the proxy you think
https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker
by conductr
3/7/2026 at 7:47:28 PM
If "both sides" are equally bad, then both sides equally represent the people, no?> I could probably go on but I feel the point has been made that election outcomes are not the proxy you think
The purpose of a system is what it does. There are not many grassroots efforts to change the many negatives you listed. Tacit approval - whether through nor voting or not fixing what is broken - does not lessen culpability. The outcome is still accurate representation on the aggregate.
If 4 housemates always have a dirty kitchen, it's a reflection on all of them. It may fall short of their ideals, or they can blame Bob for not doing dishes, not fixing a problem whose root they know is an indictment, not an excuse.
by overfeed
3/6/2026 at 8:24:20 PM
Most Canadians are visiting Hawaii and California, not Arkansas and South Dakota, so the point still stands for the states most people are going to. (Although Florida and Arizona are both pretty popular destinations too, which somewhat contradicts my point)by gucci-on-fleek
3/7/2026 at 12:15:13 AM
South Dakota actually has a few decent tourist attractions west river: (Mt Rushmore, Badlands, Crazy Horse).With its proximity to Canada, and relative cheapness, likely pulls in quite a few tourists from up North.
One additional South Dakota attraction (although lessening interest as of late) is how much hunting/fishing is available, and how much the community is interested in the ‘visiting’ hunter.
https://sdvisit.com/sites/default/files/2026-01/2025-Economi...
by dnemmers
3/7/2026 at 6:51:03 AM
Oh, I wasn't aware of that, thanks! I guess I was only thinking of warmer places, since that's where I tend to travel to. I personally live a bit too far north to drive to the US (in a reasonable amount of time), so I completely forgot that the US is close enough for a summer road trip for most Canadians.by gucci-on-fleek
3/6/2026 at 4:02:31 PM
Same has been true the 2-3 times I've visited Canada. I don't think that'll change. I remember how things got pretty heated during the run up to the Iraq War. And we hope that the friendship will endure.But I'm a pretty optimistic person anyway.
by atonse
3/6/2026 at 6:51:39 PM
Ironically in my experience anyways, this is true more so in parts that are more strongly "Canada should be the 51st state" politically. e.g. the south, where I find day to day interactions with people there are much more friendly than say California.by yibg
3/6/2026 at 4:55:59 PM
Washington has more in common with BC than with Alabama or Florida. Except for the Pig War, which was more of a disagreement between neighbors over their fence line.by throwway120385
3/6/2026 at 6:32:01 PM
maybe northwestern washington. the rest of the state is basically kentucky.by GuinansEyebrows
3/7/2026 at 1:54:29 AM
[dead]by tosapple
3/6/2026 at 4:52:55 PM
> Short of voting, protesting and getting into arguments with MAGA people I don't know what else I can effectively do.Also:
Give money to organizations that are doing the work on your behalf. Lawsuits are still important.
Call or write your reps *frequently*. They use software to automatically tabulate voter positions. (And they look at it--they want to keep their jobs!)
by beej71
3/6/2026 at 3:49:30 PM
I’ve been making an effort to visit Canada and Europe more instead of domestic US tourism. I used to go to Florida multiple times a year. Not anymore and you know, Canada is such a great place, am there right now on vacation.by dawnerd
3/6/2026 at 4:09:43 PM
So I live in Florida. People leave Canada this time a year because of the weather. If anything, go further south to Central America. Costa Rica and Panama are safe countries.by raw_anon_1111
3/6/2026 at 5:08:45 PM
They leave it because they have probabled lived in a winter climate their entire lives and want a change / have gotten older and it's harder on their bodies.If you've never experienced a real winter or done neat things like winter sports then visiting Canada in the winter is a great travel experience.
by Teever
3/6/2026 at 6:00:19 PM
Until agent orange decides they should have the canal back.by Hikikomori
3/6/2026 at 4:30:57 PM
Don't miss Algonquin park. It's amazing.by jacquesm
3/7/2026 at 1:52:57 PM
Considering every US president sans van Buren has been related to one another, I'm not sure voting is very effective either.by tinfoilhatter
3/6/2026 at 3:22:52 PM
>getting into arguments with MAGA people>effectively
these are mutually exclusive
by buellerbueller
3/6/2026 at 4:50:36 PM
You're getting downvoted, but people should be aware that arguments like this sometimes only reinforce the other party's position in their minds. My recommendation is also not to bother with those debates (unless you're doing it to find deficiencies in your own position).by beej71
3/6/2026 at 11:44:28 PM
There are elements of truth to this, but then there's other elements (here) who have said that we somehow owe it to people to argue in good faith with them when they are talking of (the ones I've personally had mentioned): post-birth abortion ("in several Democrat states, abortion is legal up to one month post birth!"), adrenochrome harvesting, etc.That it was my/our fault such views propagate because we're not "willing to understand their perspectives".
The thing is, their perspectives are a lie. And in many cases, they know they're a lie, they just don't. fucking. care.
So they can go online and whine about being dismissed or criticized, or pat each other on the back for "knowing the truth". There's a subset who, I'm sure, see such things as actual literal truth, and that's a different issue altogether, but not sure it's my responsibility to solve, or that failure to engage on my part makes the current situation "my fault".
> It's not really a choice but a demonstration of intelligence and empathy. Still, if you deliberately decide to remain ignorant, or simply fail to understand the opposition's position even despite your best efforts, it shouldn't surprise you when you also fail to convince people your position is the correct one.
Like huh? It is okay for them to be objectively dishonest, and have zero shred of empathy, curiosity for my position, but refusing to engage on a good faith basis is a failing of mine?
> Once you reach this stage, your commentary pretty much just becomes elaborate whining, which makes a poor impression of yourself and actually pushes people away from your position.
This is literally Idiocracy in the making.
If I make a poor impression on people by repeatedly shutting down their horseshit about doctors performing "abortions" up to a week or a month after birth, or that babies are being harvested in the basement of a pizza parlor for their adrenachrome, and you're more concerned about how I should be "understanding" of that perspective, again, you're also supporting the idiocracy.
by FireBeyond
3/6/2026 at 4:08:41 PM
Encouraging more people to go to protests together perhaps. While also taking care of yourself, these things can be tiring.by thih9
3/6/2026 at 4:41:11 PM
[flagged]by tokyobreakfast
3/6/2026 at 3:13:34 PM
Look into your state's recall procedures. Waiting for the next election is effectively acquiescence to the current situation.by sandworm101
3/6/2026 at 3:25:32 PM
No sitting member of Congress has ever been recalled and it’s almost certainly unconstitutional. Article I only outlines one way to remove a sitting representative or senator, and that’s expulsion by a vote of the chamber in which they sitby derektank
3/6/2026 at 3:31:51 PM
Congress is one power structure. States and cities are others. 19 states have recall procedures. The fed is much less powerful domestically without state-level support. And pulling down even a couple state reps would send a chilling message to the fed.https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state...
by sandworm101
3/6/2026 at 4:24:35 PM
Very few red states in those 19...by galangalalgol
3/7/2026 at 2:40:36 PM
My State has no recall procedures, that doesn't exist, the same is true for the majority of states.https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state...
Beyond that, my state is not the problem.
by astura
3/6/2026 at 3:11:25 PM
It’s not even just about threats, you as an individual are in potential danger of being detained without due process by ICEby blks
3/6/2026 at 3:37:58 PM
We had a great candidate for a job decline to relocate to the US for precisely this reason. I really do not blame anyone for making that decisionby jhickok
3/6/2026 at 4:08:36 PM
For me it's not about politics at all. Just the thought of going through TSA and immigration is enough to discourage me, especially when I can hop on a plane to Spain, Italy or Cyprus and face 0 inconveniences along the way.by bluecalm
3/6/2026 at 5:16:36 PM
> For me it's not about politics at all. Just the thought of going through TSA and immigration is enough to discourage meThe conditions of TSA and the immigration system are...not independent of politics (or even independent of the top tier of most divisive partisan political issues in the current American context.)
by dragonwriter
3/6/2026 at 4:33:22 PM
Cyprus is probably best avoided right now.by jacquesm
3/6/2026 at 10:06:33 PM
Yeah I mentioned it because I have semi-permanent home there. Luckily we left before the war started. I am just getting government SMS with warnings now.by bluecalm
3/6/2026 at 11:18:12 PM
Gah that must suck. I hope you all ride this out without mishap. It's got to be so frustrating, it's like a bunch of gangsters having it out in the street where you live.by jacquesm
3/6/2026 at 4:33:28 PM
The whole social media history and phone searching thing makes me nervous, you're one bad-taste meme about Charlie Kirk and a butt-hurt CBP agent away from a very long and painful detention process.by morkalork
3/6/2026 at 4:59:58 PM
you don't want to give up your DNS to visit the USA? /sby iamtheworstdev
3/6/2026 at 2:55:06 PM
It's not the government that's the problem per-se, it's the fact half the US supports that governmentby iso1631
3/6/2026 at 3:32:20 PM
American here. I have to agree with this sentiment (without getting into the math of our deeply flawed election system).The administration could not do any of this without the support of Congress, which has not wavered. That support is unwavering because those elected officials are not getting negative feedback from their voters and donors, so they have every expectation that staying this course will work out just great for them.
This administration's actions only continue with the approval of their party who put them and keep them in power.
by univacky
3/7/2026 at 2:21:08 AM
Congress has received plenty of negative feedback from their voters. The intensity and frequency of Republican voters confronting their representatives over many administration policies (e.g., Medicaid cuts, ACA subsidy cuts, tariffs, Epstein, influence of unelected officials) when those representatives hold in-person town halls has led to representatives greatly reducing in-person town halls, replacing them with tele-town halls so they can cut off people.by tzs
3/7/2026 at 5:54:22 AM
If that isn't reflected in the midterms then it's just theatre. Time will tell.by Sabinus
3/7/2026 at 1:49:30 PM
It won't be. Even if the house swings to the democrat side it will be a marginal swing only, not a massive change. Who knows if the Senate will even flip at all.Half of America loves what's happening and the other half doesn't believe the first half loves it.
by ulfw
3/6/2026 at 2:58:25 PM
This administration has terrible approval ratings. https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump...by Retric
3/6/2026 at 3:07:06 PM
Approval ratings should be far lower than this.by pupppet
3/6/2026 at 3:32:02 PM
Agreed but we also have to stop saying "the majority support this" or "half the country supports this" it ain't true and leads people to feel hopeless.by mrbombastic
3/6/2026 at 4:10:09 PM
Yet, if we re-did the election today, we'd have the same outcome. People might not support what is happening but they will never "vote for the other guy." I personally know people who disagree with everything that's going on, but they'll still vote (R) next time "because I'm a (R)," as if it's their intrinsic physical trait like hair color.by ryandrake
3/6/2026 at 5:39:07 PM
The special elections that have been happening don't agree with this hypothesis. Dems are currently outperforming Harris by 30+ point margins even in places like Texasby sumeno
3/6/2026 at 4:30:34 PM
This is a good analysis but I’ll say at least for me, it has been a lesser of two evils scenario. Both parties have some really crazy ideas and platforms. I loathe the two party system for this reason.by cfloyd
3/6/2026 at 5:03:34 PM
Yea that's a fair takeLike you will go to an election, and your choices will be
Republican candidate: "I support deporting your family, I will not only not support cleaner energy but will actively work to increase coal usage, and I think your trans cousin should be forced to transition back even if it makes them commit suicide."
Democratic candidate: "I think all of that stuff the Republican candidate said is crazy and wrong. If elected, I will strive to make all your guns illegal, so that eventually Republican-supporting institutions like the police and military, and Republican states, are the only ones with guns."
by dmoy
3/6/2026 at 5:26:50 PM
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida … to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.
“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.
by ModernMech
3/6/2026 at 5:53:20 PM
I don't doubt that Trump would take guns away from people who don't support him. It's kinda right out of an authoritarian playbook.Not sure what that has to do with what I said though.
by dmoy
3/6/2026 at 7:37:43 PM
Because you presented a dichotomy in which the Democrats are a party intent to "make all your guns illegal", yet that is not their position as a party. Indeed the last Democratic presidential nominee made very clear she owns guns and likes the 2nd amendment.The opposite is true of Republicans: their party platform is literally "whatever Trump wants", and Trump has actually articulated circumventing the second amendment entirely by "taking guns first".
Moreover, his current administration's stance is that lawfully carrying citizens protected by the 2nd amendment who are obeying the law are at risk for summary execution if his agents feel threatened enough. This makes the 2nd amendment inoperable (no need for a second amendment at all if they can just say they were scared and kill you for having a gun).
If you're going to characterize Democrats as (a lesser) evil, at least be honest about why.
by ModernMech
3/6/2026 at 8:29:16 PM
Ah yea sorry, I meant literally my guns, as in the ones I use for service rifle competition. Those guns specifically, like the practical ones, are definitely on the docket. In fact if I moved to my current state today, I wouldn't be able to bring my guns.Yes they will allow me to have a deer rifle with a 5-10rd capacity.
by dmoy
3/6/2026 at 8:53:27 PM
Nice try, but you went on to say "eventually... police and military, and Republican states, are the only ones with guns."So you were not talking about your guns, you were talking about all guns. You can amend your position if that's really what it is, but that's not what you said.
by ModernMech
3/6/2026 at 10:53:35 PM
Ok I will endeavor to be more precise when I'm talking about modern/practical rifles, and not just like literally any gun at all.The relevant point is that the line for gun ownership pushed by the Democrats (at least where I am) is way far away from the line for gun ownership pushed by Republicans.
And when stating that line, it strikes me as an odd position to take when I'm also simultaneously being told that Republicans are going to go even farther hard right / authoritarian/ take-over / w/e, while also keeping the fairly pro-Republican police armed to the teeth (again, with modern rifles).
Trump supporting red flag laws or not seems kinda like a distraction. Trump supporters saying they can shoot protestors is exactly what I'm pointing out - if that is what we're scared the future will hold, why push for giving up modern rifles?
by dmoy
3/6/2026 at 6:51:54 PM
Kinda goes against gun rights as being part of his platform at all. At least with the "gun control" laws they still try to maintain some gun rights. Whereas the Republican playbook now is just "oh you shouldn't be allowed to carry unless I think you're a cool person." Like that guy that got shot in MSP. He had a concealed carry permit and he was disarmed. People in Trump's administration were still saying "he shouldn't have had a gun at a protest." Where were they when we saw hundreds if not thousands of guys with AR-15's and plate carriers flanking the BLM protests?by throwway120385
3/6/2026 at 7:26:24 PM
I don't think trump has gun rights as a big part of his platform. I guess they got rid of tax stamp fees but that doesn't really mean anything.But again, that doesn't really have much to do with what I said?
However minimal Republican support of gun rights may be, they don't have increasing gun control as a major part of their platform like the Democrats do.
by dmoy
3/6/2026 at 11:47:19 PM
Right. I realize Australia is not perfect, and from my visits back there to visit family, I know it's gotten more polarized, but when I moved to the US at 28, in the early 2000s, there was still the prevailing opinion that you could go to the pub, argue all night long with some bloke about politics while drinking beers together and still be mates, while here..."I'd rather be dead than friends with a liberal", and such tropes.
by FireBeyond
3/6/2026 at 5:12:40 PM
I am not confident that is as cut and dried as you are putting forth, there have been massive swings in heavily red districts the other way for special elections in the last few months and Republican polling is abysmal.by mrbombastic
3/6/2026 at 4:35:20 PM
If only they were willing to change their affiliations as easily as they do change their hair color.by noisy_boy
3/6/2026 at 5:07:28 PM
Elections are decided as much by who shows up as who each individual supports.If the election was held tomorrow it’s likely many people that voted for Trump wouldn’t go, and many people who didn’t care enough to show up would.
by Retric
3/6/2026 at 7:55:03 PM
Right, turning out your people is huge, and it becomes more rather than less important as margins are thinner which is a consequence of trying to gerrymander a thinner majority.If Republicans turn 2 places they win by 130:100 plus a big city they lose by 100:130 into three they expect to win by 120:110 then if on the day Democrats turn out as usual but about 10% of the Republicans stay home across the board they lose all three 108:110.
My concern in the 2026 cycle is that there just won't be fair elections, and so this doesn't end up mattering.
by tialaramex
3/6/2026 at 5:16:22 PM
> if we re-did the election today, we'd have the same outcomeDoubtful. The faithful will always be idiots. But around them are vast seas of folks who change their minds and even switch parties. Between foreign policy, vaccines (weirdly, not being nutter enough) and Noem turning ICE into a pageant show, a lot of Trump voters feel betrayed. It’s why the House flipping is almost a given.
by JumpCrisscross
3/6/2026 at 7:01:49 PM
"The majority" I'll grant you, but I'd say 43.4% is close enough to "half" for these purposes. It's only a touch lower than his poll numbers right before the election.Compare with Kier Starmer, who as of this writing has not sent armed goons into his own cities, wrecked all of his international trade and tourism, alienated his allies, or once again invaded the Middle East. His approval rating is about 20%!
by wat10000
3/6/2026 at 9:35:27 PM
Well Starmer giving away the Diego Garcia military base has certainly alienated at least one ally.https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trump-calls-uks-chagos-...
by nradov
3/7/2026 at 6:27:24 PM
Yet nobody in the UK gives a stuff, other than those who thing the Chagosians are being done inAnd a few months ago America was endorsing the plan
Worth nothing that this was a Tory inititive -- Truss and Sunak did pretty much all the work, it was their idea.
by iso1631
3/6/2026 at 6:32:34 PM
44% is "about half"If you had 1000 coins and put them into two piles one of 440 and one of 560 it would be "about half"
But if your argument is that only 154 million people support this government and that's fine because if it was 174 million there'd be a problem, then sure.
by iso1631
3/6/2026 at 3:24:20 PM
Yes, and a major reason they aren't lower is because of tech executives that control the media and mass communication in the US.by epistasis
3/6/2026 at 4:34:46 PM
Those are MUCH higher than they should be by now. It makes me wonder what the approval rating of a ham sandwich would be, and I would not be surprised if it was higher.by jacquesm
3/6/2026 at 5:00:08 PM
A ham sandwich has some strong qualities. I’m not kidding.The president would do basically nothing for four years, which would cause some things to move slowly. But it would be a very stable environment. No random tariffs via executive order, no random wars or invasions, no governing via tweet.
Ham sandwich would maybe be one of our better presidents. Top 50%, probably.
by actsasbuffoon
3/6/2026 at 3:17:36 PM
There are hard and soft approval ratings. The soft number is the count of how many people will vote for/against in the next election. The hard number is how many want a change today, how many will support recalling thier representatives in order to force change today. In that number, the current administration has widespread support.by sandworm101
3/6/2026 at 3:30:48 PM
There is no mechanism for recall of Congressional officers.by greedo
3/6/2026 at 4:35:58 PM
No legal ones anyway.by jacquesm
3/6/2026 at 4:48:44 PM
[flagged]by dotancohen
3/6/2026 at 5:08:16 PM
I'm not advocating for it, merely observing that that seems to be the way in which the USA prematurely gets rid of politicians that it does not like. It's revolting, the amount of violence in politics and >> what even banana republics get away with and that's on both sides of the aisle so I don't give a rats ass about which side you or anybody else is on.FYI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_American_...
Fix your systems, get rid of corruption and try - for once - to act like you mean it with all that talk of democracy because I'm not seeing it.
Meanwhile, on HN it is customary to try to not read the worst into a comment. Thank you.
Edit: oh, I see:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47270814
Pot, kettle, and so on, you seem to have no trouble with the USA murdering people.
by jacquesm
3/7/2026 at 12:05:26 AM
I mean, it was okay for Trump to do so, so..."If Hilary gets elected, there's nothing you'll be able to do. I mean, maybe some of you Second Amendment types might be able to, maybe."
by FireBeyond
3/6/2026 at 3:37:06 PM
Plenty of state-level reps can be recalled today. That noone is even trying sends the message that the population is generally OK with waiting until the next election ... an election that will be run/managed/counted by those representatives.by sandworm101
3/6/2026 at 7:16:22 PM
I specifically said Congressional representatives.by greedo
3/6/2026 at 3:03:49 PM
Totally a case of “gee, who’d have thunk”by loloquwowndueo
3/6/2026 at 4:12:52 PM
I love the copium. If I have 10 friends and ask all of them where they want to go for dinner and 6 say let’s have Chinese and the other 4 say let’s kill Bob and eat him, I still have a shitty friend group.by raw_anon_1111
3/6/2026 at 3:34:23 PM
These are shockingly high.by lordgroff
3/6/2026 at 2:58:57 PM
Controversial opinion, it's way more than half: 1/3 voted for the orange man, 1/3 didn't bother go to vote because "BoTh SideS ARe thE SamE!" and 1/3 tried to do the right thing.by TwoNineA
3/6/2026 at 3:04:13 PM
It may surprise you, but it’s generally accepted that 1/3rd is less than 1/2.by JohnMakin
3/9/2026 at 12:26:50 PM
It's "generally accepted", at least in America, that 1/4 is bigger than 1/3https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/06/17/third-pound-burger-fr...
by iso1631
3/6/2026 at 3:09:50 PM
1/3 explicitly approve and 1/3 implicity approve. If my math is mathing, that's 2/3 and it's larger than 1/2.by TwoNineA
3/6/2026 at 3:20:22 PM
It’s a large and incorrect assumption, and not mathing, to lump non-voters into supporters, especially when the administration is purging eligible voters.by dahart
3/6/2026 at 5:41:12 PM
An eligible voter who chooses not to vote makes one unambiguous statement: "I'm fine with either outcome"by hamdingers
3/6/2026 at 9:02:17 PM
That’s an assumption, jumping to a conclusion. It is true for some people, since some people say it out loud, but it is not true for everybody, and calling it “unambiguous” is an unsupportable claim.To the degree some non-voters say they don’t care, that’s still deeply complicated, enough that even taking someone’s word for it is a bad idea. Non-voters in the U.S. are not uniformly distributed, and thus there is evidence suggesting that not caring is already a function of class, race, education, gender, and age, among other things.
If you actually care about voting and about the truth, it does yourself a disservice to jump to a assumed conclusion that all non-voters are saying something unambiguous, that they’re all saying the same thing, that they all have informed choice, that they understand all the tradeoffs and implications, and that they really are fine with any outcome regardless of what they say.
by dahart
3/6/2026 at 4:00:38 PM
Eligible voters should absolutely be lumped in as implicit supporters. Disenfranchised voters have been made ineligible so should not have been in the statistic.by Larrikin
3/6/2026 at 4:43:17 PM
[flagged]by abletonlive
3/6/2026 at 5:01:04 PM
Rhetorically: why is it "implicitly approve" instead of "implicitly disapprove?"The only thing you know about them is that they did not vote. Even using your assumption of their beliefs ("both sides are the same"), that position is generally affiliated with disapproval, not approval.
by fwip
3/6/2026 at 4:07:14 PM
I'm in one of the many states where my vote doesn't matter. Deep red. Doesn't make me a supporterby yCombLinks
3/6/2026 at 4:47:52 PM
This is extremely lazy and unrigorous reasoning that could be extended dishonestly to any number of things. Oh, you aren't protesting genocides? You must support them then. Oh, you're not helping feed hungry people in poor countries? Guess you support child starvation. Oh, you're not contributing to the Rust ecosystem? ...............by JohnMakin
3/6/2026 at 5:05:25 PM
None of those are comparable to the simple and quick act of voting against a treasonous candidate for US president.This wasn’t a bad candidate vs worse candidate situation, it was someone who supports breaking apart the trust and foundation of the country solely for personal gain versus someone who at least believed in providing a veneer of civility.
by lotsofpulp
3/7/2026 at 12:18:39 AM
signing an online petition is also a quick act, and the same reasoning you’re using would follow. you’re almost getting at what’s wrong with your specific voter argument though - in many, many states, 1 or more of the following can apply:big states that always vote one way like CA where a non vote is the same as a blue vote
states where voting is such a tedious process that opting out is a reasonable choice, even if it doesnt place a big burden otherwise
states with voter id laws, often large chunks of the eligible population do not have an id
disabled people, people with hardship, etc., felons
It’s really weird logic to lump massive chunks of the general population these things apply to in with the same people that explicitly support this. It also ignores the fact that these elections often come down to a few thousand or fewer votes in a handful of battleground states. Not voting in those places, I would tend to agree more with the gist of your point, but it is no where near a big chunk of the population.
by JohnMakin
3/6/2026 at 4:15:05 PM
Because of the electoral college, it doesn’t matter if more people voted in California, NY, Alabama, Mississippi, etcby raw_anon_1111
3/7/2026 at 3:17:38 AM
If someone looks at (admittedly shitty) candidates like Harris and decides she's as bad as Trump it means the implicitly approve of Trump. You need a mushy brain to not see that there's shit (Harris) that there's Trump, orders or magnitude worse.by mvdtnz
3/6/2026 at 3:11:44 PM
I upvoted you because I think the current culture is too "blameless" with regards to voters themselves."But the party just ran a bad candidate!"
"Egg prices were too high!!"
"Kamala would've been just as bad for Gaza as Trump!"
No, sorry, voters don't get a pass because they're apathetic or love being the "enlightened centrist" that lets fascism takeover.
by hypeatei
3/6/2026 at 3:25:55 PM
Don't forget the evergreen "it's just politics it doesn't have to affect our relationship".by masklinn
3/6/2026 at 3:41:12 PM
Oh yes, that's a classic line. They pretend as if we're just debating what the tax rate should be or some other benign talking point.by hypeatei
3/6/2026 at 4:06:19 PM
The democrats are complicit in genocide. Trump is attacking allies too, but they’re both criminal. The main difference is “worthy and unworthy” victims.by tehjoker
3/6/2026 at 4:58:12 PM
> Trump is attacking allies too, but they’re both criminal.In other news, a mouse and an elephant are both mammals.
If only there was some obvious way to tell the difference between them.
by summerdown2
3/6/2026 at 7:24:00 PM
I don't really know how to respond politely to downplaying genocide. What I can say is that it is becoming accepted that Kamala Harris lost in part because she refused to change genocide policy. If you want to win, you should start taking it seriously.My swing-state vote was stupendously easy to get. (a) don't commit a genocide (b) give voters something big and material like free healthcare (c) don't cover up COVID and Long COVID
They didn't even try.
https://www.axios.com/2026/02/22/dnc-2024-autopsy-harris-gaz...
by tehjoker
3/9/2026 at 6:19:40 PM
> I don't really know how to respond politely to downplaying genocide.Sorry. I don't intend to downplay genocide and I don't want to come across that way.
What I'm trying to critique is (so far as I can read it from your post) your inability to see that two things can be the same in one respect - but apparently not notice that one is much bigger than the other.
If it helps, I'm not American and don't have any option to 'win' as far as US politics goes. I think you are right that Kamala Harris was facilitating genocide. But I also think you are wrong to not take into account that Donald Trump is a whole order of magnitude worse.
by summerdown2
3/7/2026 at 12:11:05 AM
> My swing-state vote was stupendously easy to get. (a) don't commit a genocide (b) give voters something big and material like free healthcare (c) don't cover up COVID and Long COVIDSo they voted for the side committing genocide and who sees free healthcare as an atrocity in itself to everything the US stands for? What did the Dems do to "cover up" COVID? You know versus "It's nothing worse than the flu, it'll be over in two weeks" while privately being aware that neither of those things were true?
I mean, they didn't do that (and I think the DNC, DWS and their ilk have a lot to answer for the current state of affairs), but your "swing state, stupendously easy to get" decided instead to vote for the side that openly doubled down on those things, not really a ringing endorsement for expectations of voters there.
That's before we even get to the general issue of an electoral populace so ignorant of the political landscape that the number one search on Election Day on Google was "Did Biden drop out?"
by FireBeyond
3/9/2026 at 6:20:14 AM
I voted third party. If the Democrats want my vote, they have to represent something resembling human values.Look around you, COVID is still everywhere and the scientific literature is pretty dismal. The Democrats lagged about 6 months behind the republicans, now most people believe what was far-right in 2020. It's true fewer people are dying, but most people do just think it's a cold. The democrats shut down reporting, didn't fight for worker protections, and basically were most invested in the economy over health. They also were never clear about the airborne method of transmission and so people ended up believing masks didn't work because they would wear a surgical mask and still got sick. They didn't "follow the science".
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/VC/VC00/20220302/114453/HHRG...
by tehjoker
3/6/2026 at 3:04:29 PM
Same. We had two month-long trips planned and canceled them both. I realize California is not exactly “enemy territory” or whatever but we’ll spend our money elsewhere.by cgh
3/6/2026 at 5:17:02 PM
I mean you say that, but as someone with family in California the issue isn't the general citizenry it's that ICE and border people aren't general citizenry.If the system decides to screw you over, that your average Cali resident disapproves doesn't stop you being in a holding cell for weeks.
by XorNot
3/6/2026 at 3:06:49 PM
Going through CBP is such a nightmare, even as a US citizen, I also think twice about going on international vacation. I hate entering my own country, every other country is so much easier, a deep sense of dread enters every time I have to go back to the USA because I know I will be fucked with by the border police.I try not to let them influence my behavior too much, but at the end of the day, getting thrown in immigration jail on false accusations (yes happened to me despite presenting US passport) or detained for 12+ hours (also happened several times) puts constraints on vacation plans.
by mothballed
3/6/2026 at 4:18:02 PM
Most of my flying back into the US has been through ATL and once through LAX. It wasn’t bad.We just had to wait 3 hours in line to get into Costa Rica.
by raw_anon_1111
3/6/2026 at 3:52:42 PM
Really depends where your entry point is. They’ve moved to digital gates which have made actual cbp interactions basically a thing of the past. Last couple times I didn’t even have to take my passport out.by dawnerd
3/6/2026 at 4:17:34 PM
As you said, depends on your gate of entry. At some of them, they took the digital gates out after installing them.by fragmede
3/6/2026 at 3:08:36 PM
Americans don't understand that words have meaning. Canadians are supposed to just shrug and laugh.by expedition32
3/6/2026 at 2:48:11 PM
Likewise, I used to live in Germany, now in California, I used to get a fairly steady stream of old friends in town to visit, but not anymore, they essentially to a person refuse to come to the U.S.by cameldrv
3/6/2026 at 2:52:42 PM
I took a taxi ride from Niagara (ON) to Buffalo. The Canadian driver really was leery of Americans and I apologized for everything. It's a dang shame, and I don't blame you all for feeling this way.by flerchin
3/6/2026 at 3:05:07 PM
Bit off-topic, but how easy was this to do? We need to do the same crossing to pick up a rental car from Buffalo.by cjrp
3/7/2026 at 1:30:05 AM
I couldn't arrange it via app, so it seemed impossible at first. However, I asked the bellman at the hotel, and he called his taxi driver friend. I kinda overpaid from what I can tell, $100 american, but he just drove us across the bridge, passports were checked super quickly by the American side, and we continued on to Buffalo in about 40 minutes total.by flerchin
3/9/2026 at 9:45:32 AM
Thanks! I'd seen Uber etc. won't cross the bridge, so looks like talking to an actual human is required :)by cjrp
3/7/2026 at 3:20:52 AM
Do you Americans realize it means absolutely nothing to us when one of you "apologises for" Americans? You do that for you, not us. It's weird and gross. You don't speak for Americans. Americans speak for Americans, and the message is loud and clear.by mvdtnz
3/7/2026 at 12:41:45 PM
Well in the taxi or seemed to be the right thing to do.by flerchin
3/6/2026 at 4:24:56 PM
Someone mentioned how they had to go to America for the job, and everyone worried for his safety. His answer: Don't worry, it is South America. Everyone felt better for him, then we all wondered how 1 year could cause such a flip.by hyperman1
3/6/2026 at 6:04:37 PM
The power of media influence over people's minds. People will think whatever they are told to think by their media rulers. They will feel whatever they're told to feel.So there's not much mystery to it.
by carlosjobim
3/6/2026 at 4:30:04 PM
That's all fine and good until your plane has to land in the United States for a medical emergency. If you are really concerned about this fly Air France through Bogota.by jacquesm
3/6/2026 at 3:52:47 PM
I was surrounded by Canadians in Arizona (BC, Calgary) and Florida (Ontario) this winter. I could not tell a difference in the RV world (2021-present) which I thought was odd given all the boycotts I read about online.by clivestaples
3/7/2026 at 1:15:39 AM
I'm not Canadian, and I usually visit the US for business. While being a Muslim often means enduring the humiliation of being singled out because of my name by CBP, I'm comfortable enough that I could travel private for my US trips, which means the entire CBP experience is completely different (friendly chitchat and conversation as the CBP officers check our passports inside the aircraft itself). But with ICE roaming the streets, I'm not taking any chances of being deported to Libya or El Salvador or something. Which in turn means that we have severely halted all of our US investments, simply because I am unable to visit the country (!).by fakedang
3/6/2026 at 3:02:13 PM
My mom's condo complex in Hawaii used to have many owners from Canada. Over the last year, the number of units for sale has probably 10x'd from previous years.by jorts
3/6/2026 at 4:20:30 PM
Are people from Qatar and UAE now buying these? Seems these are our new allies nowby vjvjvjvjghv
3/6/2026 at 5:09:37 PM
They were our new allies for a few weeks there and now they’re cannon fodder for Iranian shaheeds.Probably not our friends anymore.
by selectodude
3/8/2026 at 3:08:22 PM
No idea who is buying them, but it's dropped the price of buying one by over $100K.by jorts
3/6/2026 at 5:10:41 PM
[flagged]by dotancohen
3/6/2026 at 6:27:47 PM
Hi, Citizen of one of those European countries here. My new neighbours are fine, thank you.by jacquesm
3/11/2026 at 11:52:16 PM
Thank you, which country?I have no doubt that they are great people. That wasn't in question. I asked if they are allies. Do you find that they support and integrate into your local culture, and support preserving that culture? Or do they bring Middle Eastern culture and expect Middle Eastern values to be expressed in your country?
by dotancohen
3/6/2026 at 4:41:26 PM
Less people visit the US because it's do damn expensive. That's the biggest reason for most people. Most people don't have any principles, they go where they can afford. Last year I was in NYC and Miami beach and was shocked how expensive everything was. (I know these are expensive places but that's where most tourists go - they don't visit Kansas)by tinyhouse
3/6/2026 at 5:24:27 PM
Those people didn't already come to the USA for starters, NYC has been crazily expensive for years.There are many reasons people might have, none are good. There is for instance also a risk factor of being harassed and detained by ICE. Cruelty and incompetence are a feature of authoritarian governance, not a coincidence. So anyone going there takes a kind of risk. As has been shown, even Europeans aren't safe from the whimsical paramilitary.
EDIT: I don't think that tourism is a big factor, but as I said elsewhere, it could well be the proverbial canary in the coal mine.
by exceptione
3/7/2026 at 1:55:02 PM
Well, my business would be paying the trips, and everybody still refuses. So it's not the money.by groestl
3/6/2026 at 4:27:45 PM
Anecdotally, my in-laws used to visit the US a couple times every year to spend time with their daughter and my nephew who live in the US.Now instead they pay for the plane tickets to bring my nephew up to Canada.
by Marsymars
3/6/2026 at 5:33:51 PM
The hotel booking websites show pricing trend data and rooms are largely “low price” currently. March isn’t exactly high season for California but it’s an interesting indicator.by gardnr
3/6/2026 at 3:43:41 PM
It's smaller than you'd think, but more than enough to make a real dent.December 2025, statscan calculated that cross-border auto traffic was down 30% (mostly same-day trips).
Air travel is only down 11%, and air travel to other countries is up 13%.
https://globalnews.ca/news/11679293/us-canada-travel-rates-d...
They didn't break down how much of that was tourism vs work.
by Pxtl
3/6/2026 at 5:11:36 PM
I hope a couple of U.S. tourists won't find any trouble driving through Alberta. Would a "We Love CANADA" bumper sticker help?(Asking for a friend.)
by JKCalhoun
3/6/2026 at 6:17:11 PM
Your chances of running into trouble are pretty close to zero unless you're wearing a 51st State t-shirt or something.I work with a a decent number of Americans who either moved here or are here temporarily, and I can't say there has been any tension. I think most Canadians who are staunchly anti-US are also aware that plenty of Americans aren't happy with their government. I can't say I've seen any vitriol towards the average American person.
by mkipper
3/7/2026 at 1:45:51 PM
I doubt you would have any issue at all travelling in almost all of Canada. Alberta might be a bit more US friendly.You don't need the bumper sticker, or to apologize. As long as you aren't wearing MAGA gear or being bombastic about Trump, people won't really think much of it. I assume anyone visiting Canada isn't a Trump supporter anyways, as most polling shows they've decided they don't like Canada.
by data-ottawa
3/6/2026 at 3:53:56 PM
Canada? Count most of the world, and whole western world (minus US for the pedants but oh boy do US expats have juicy opinions on their homeland).I live in Switzerland, and literally everybody I talk to in our circles - bankers, doctors etc. despises US right now. The idea of going there as a tourist is immediately laughed at or met with puzzled look. Professional reasons or conferences are not even brought up, its automatic no and employers usually don't even try suggesting those.
We ourselves with kids wanted to do the trip either this or next summer, but hell will freeze sooner. Some meager +-10k from us, I know just a drop in the ocean but there could have been many such drops. Other, less hostile economies deserve these way more.
by kakacik
3/6/2026 at 6:10:45 PM
While the effect was real, arrival numbers mostly recovered since august last year: https://www.economist.com/content-assets/images/20250830_WOT...
by gruez
3/7/2026 at 7:42:21 AM
Everyone not in the US, help us: boycott, divest, and sanction everything USAian to limit the power of the criminal regime and expedite regime change.by burnt-resistor
3/6/2026 at 3:31:53 PM
Not just Canada. Everyone is wondering if they'll be arrested and thrown in the gulag. Obviously the chances of this happening are fairly small, but if you have an alternative non-fascist country to visit, why take the chance?by dboreham
3/6/2026 at 4:50:36 PM
Well - if you are canadian and give money to the USA then you kind of also help sustain Trump's hostile anti-Canadian rhetoric and agenda. Most Canadians live in the southern part of Canada, aka close to the USA and depend economically a lot on the USA, but increasing that economic dependency more than it already is, is not a good strategy for all Canadians. I also think Canadians should get a small nuclear arsenal, probably 25% compared to what France has (France has about twice as many people; Canada only needs a small deterrence that would drive the cost of any country being hostile against it. Not many countries can be really hostile to Canada.)by shevy-java
3/6/2026 at 3:31:37 PM
Absolutely, my partner would love to visit national parks south of the border this summer but we decided we'd much rather spend our money in our own economy for the time being. That's not even considering the risk getting snatched by immigration anywhere in the country.by barbazoo
3/6/2026 at 3:55:03 PM
There’s a decent chance the national parks will still be there in a couple years anyway.Well, I guess, they might have been auctioned off to some billionaire at that point so… the tickets will probably be pricier but the facilities should be shiny and new.
by bee_rider
3/6/2026 at 4:22:35 PM
If they choose to open them to the public, that is. Hopefully that billionaire doesn't just open it to their friends and us commoners don't get to use it.by fragmede
3/6/2026 at 3:54:28 PM
"spend our money in our own economy" - a common fallacy about economies. Spending money is how you take/consume resources from an economy.If you spend money in Canada, then you are taking stuff from Canadians. If you spend your money in the US, then you are taking stuff from Americans.
You might wonder what happens at the limit - why don't Canadians just spend all their money in the US and take all America's stuff (just a thought experiment)? Because currencies adjust. Canadians would need US Dollars to buy stuff in the US, and as more and more Canadians try to do that, the exchange rate would change to devalue the Canadian Dollar against the US Dollar, effectively making things more and more expensive for Canadians until they are forced to get their stuff elsewhere.
by Nifty3929
3/6/2026 at 4:11:39 PM
This is not true.When you spend Canadian dollars at a business owned by a Canadian, you're sending that owner and the Canadian government your money, in exchange for their goods or services, normally at a surplus of value for them. You are 'helping' them; you are 'investing' in the Canadian economy. You are justifying the existence of their business and the jobs of the people who work there.
Especially insofar as you're making this choice versus American options, you are putting money into the hands of Canadians rather than Americans. This is the underlying concept behind boycotts and voting with your dollars or feet.
by wcarss
3/6/2026 at 4:28:57 PM
Same here in Europe. I've had people volunteer to tell me they had canceled their trips and that 'as far as they're concerned that includes the rest of the future for them'. I think a lot of people were willing to forgive the USA for 'Trump 1' even if they did not understand it. But this is different.by jacquesm
3/6/2026 at 4:43:49 PM
We did not travel to the US during Trump's first presidency either.That said, I do think some people are doing things for the wrong reasons and there is some manipulation of the masses at play here. One example is I expect most people don't really understand the tariff situation between Canada and the US and that most goods are still exempt from taxes and the agreements hold. I think some people want to punish the US for tariffs that don't exist.
As a Canadian we should push back strongly against attacks on our sovereignty. We should also be somewhat concerned about the direction our neighbor is going in general. But it's also a reality that the US is very very close to us both geographically, culturally, and economically. That's not going to change. It's not an "enemy country" despite their very questionable choice of leaders. I think the correct long term direction is open borders and open trade, somewhat like the EU, and we shouldn't lose sight of that because a bad leader is in place today.
It's very weird to me to see all the focus on US policies in the Canadian discourse while not enough focus on Canada. That feels like political distraction.
by YZF
3/6/2026 at 4:51:31 PM
> I think some people want to punish the US for tariffs that don't exist.I'm sure it has nothing to do with the Gestapo. What a lovely time to be a foreigner travelling in the US...
by rapind
3/7/2026 at 1:28:21 AM
Believe it or not but there are some Canadians still going to the US.Gestapo is ... bullshit and FUD.
Yes, we see the news about ICE.
https://www.bts.gov/newsroom/border-crossing-data-annual-rel...
In 2025 there were about 18M personal vehicles and about 300K pedestrians crossed from Canada into the US. So yes, it's down (like 10%) but it's still a lot of people. Out of those the number of people that run into problems with the "Gestapo" is approximately, within rounding error, zero. You're a lot more likely to die in a car crash or get robbed or something.
Why does everything today have to be about hyperbole? You don't want to visit the US (like me) ... well don't. You don't like Trump ... fine. You disagree with the immigration policies, enforcement whatnot... fine. But enough with this bullshit fear mongering.
by YZF
3/6/2026 at 3:42:17 PM
I think the "elbows up" rhetoric among boomers is kind of stupid, but for safety reasons I have avoided going to the US. Otherwise I probably would have travelled 5-6 times in the past year.by jrjeksjd8d
3/6/2026 at 3:06:53 PM
I'd understand the face value lack of roi. I go to europe.But to judge?
Okay
by RobRivera
3/6/2026 at 2:41:05 PM
Seems like many people here in Germany also don't want anything to do with the US any longer as well. I myself wouldn't go to the US, even before Trump, and recently also heard from someone else, who wants to travel around the world, that they will not be visiting the US, due to what is going on over there. Just 2 anecdotes, N=2 of course, but I can imagine many people sharing the worries or concerns about visiting the US.edit: The truth hurts apparently.
by zelphirkalt
3/6/2026 at 2:45:50 PM
Statistics Canada has over the last year shown that tourism to US from Canada is down by a lot and it's not getting better. Hell, as an anecdote, I keep seing ads on TV like: Come to Disneyland! We got rebates for canadians!Edit, didn't realise it was this bad:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/260223/dq260...
by TwoNineA
3/6/2026 at 3:07:32 PM
Las Vegas hotels are currently offering to take Canadian dollars at par.by cgh
3/6/2026 at 3:54:59 PM
I go to Disneyland nearly every weekend and the increase in foreigners is insane. Clearly a lot of people visiting that would have been going to Florida decided on California instead.by dawnerd
3/6/2026 at 4:22:37 PM
As a Floridian who owns a unit in a condotel [1]. The property management company is outright saying that tourism is down affecting income. All of the other owners who were dumb enough to buy them as “investments” are complaining.We don’t care because we are the only people who live there mostly year round and only leave during spring break and the summer when domestic tourism is high.
by raw_anon_1111
3/6/2026 at 3:28:55 PM
> Edit, didn't realise it was this bad:It's probably not bottomed out yet, some of those trips were booked months in advance and not cancellable without taking a financial hit.
by masklinn
3/6/2026 at 2:58:02 PM
[dead]by tabemonooo
3/6/2026 at 3:15:25 PM
As a Canadian, most of those people stating this, are broke and can't afford to travel, so the anti Trump thing is a face saving excuse.Just a observation from my personal life, my friends who aren't broke, are still going to Florida, etc.
by newsclues
3/6/2026 at 3:34:46 PM
The ones I know that have money stopped going there and went further south or in Europe.Some even go as far as booking a trip to Europe for a music concert instead of going to the US.
The line between "it's expensive" and "the current situation in the US sucks" is blurred.
https://globalnews.ca/news/11075088/canadian-snowbird-couple...
by whynotmaybe
3/6/2026 at 6:55:07 PM
90% of Canadians live within 100 km of the U.S. border, it's not much different than traveling elsewhere in Canada.Granted, as someone who lives ~40 km from the border, I'm broke and can't afford to travel, but I'm also avoiding the U.S. and have been further than 100 km from home on a number of occasions in the past year.
by pcthrowaway
3/6/2026 at 5:03:57 PM
Ridiculous take that Florida is expensive like it's some kind of luxury trip.Florida was always a budget option for us. It's always been a quick, easy (you can drive), low risk break to get away from the cold. I just don't feel like dealing with CBP and random MAGAs right now to be honest. Wife is low-key stressed about the idea. I mean at best it's a hassle... so why bother?
by rapind
3/6/2026 at 3:22:51 PM
yeah dude people definitely just stopped being able to afford going to Florida when Trump decided to turn his back against it's closest allyby groguzt
3/6/2026 at 5:15:22 PM
> People have judged me for driving through the states.Meanwhile it's perfectly acceptable, if not a point of pride, for Canadians to go to Cuba, which is not only run by an actual, kleptocratic dictatorship that imprisons dissidents for decades at a time, but is also the number #1 destination in the Americas for sex tourists, including child sex tourists, with the industry even tacitly sanctioned by the dictatorship ("jineterismo").
by anonnon
3/6/2026 at 7:50:16 PM
Cuba hasn't recently openly discussed plans to annex Canada by force, and to punish Canada economically for not acceding to this desire.by Pxtl
3/7/2026 at 5:08:33 AM
> Cuba hasn't recently openly discussed plans to annex CanadaNeither has the US. Trump specifically disavowed that every time he was asked (by the CBC). Meanwhile Cuba sent thousands of mercenaries to kill Ukrainians on behalf of Russia.
> punish Canada economically
Frankly, even as someone who opposes tariffs as uneconomic, given Ottawa's long-standing "constructive engagement" with the regime in Havana, even after they hosted Soviet nuclear weapons pointed at the US, even while they put AIDS patients in concentration camps, and even while they ran the island as a giant, open-air prison refusing to allow anyone to leave, it's really speaks to America's forbearance that it hasn't attempted to punish Canada economically, until now.
by anonnon
3/7/2026 at 4:08:05 PM
You can't be serious. Did you miss all that talk of 51st state and "governor Trudeau" or "governor Gretzky?"> A reporter asked if he was "considering military force to annex and acquire Canada."
> "No," replied Trump. "Economic force."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/donald-trump-canada-51st-st...
"The only thing that makes sense is for Canada to become our cherished Fifty First State. This would make all Tariffs, and everything else, totally disappear. Canadians’ taxes will be very substantially reduced, they will be more secure, militarily and otherwise, than ever before, there would no longer be a Northern Border problem, and the greatest and most powerful nation in the world will be bigger, better and stronger than ever."
"If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them."
https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/03/19/trump-canada-annex/
We're into "reject the evidence of your eyes and ears" territory here.
by Pxtl
3/8/2026 at 4:38:12 AM
I meant to quote the entire clause, including, specifically, the> by force
part, which is the part Trump repeatedly disavowed (as your own post demonstrates).
by anonnon
3/6/2026 at 3:16:31 PM
I am a US citizen living in Portugal. I have the right to go to the US, live there, etc.I recently went back for a funeral, and I had to spend a moment reminding myself that it would be fine for me.
For people who don't have my passport, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling them "it will be fine", though I would still tell a European "the odds of a problem are relatively low." But I couldn't in all honesty say "there's nothing to worry about."
by hyperpape
3/6/2026 at 3:44:39 PM
> I recently went back for a funeral, and I had to spend a moment reminding myself that it would be fine for me.Your passport does not matter, the colour of your skin does:
"US citizens jailed in LA Ice raids speak out: ‘They came ready to attack’":
* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/05/us-citizens-...
"A U.S. citizen says ICE forced open the door to his Minnesota home and removed him in his underwear after a warrantless search"
* https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-f...
by throw0101d
3/6/2026 at 3:50:27 PM
This reminds me of an incident with a friend of mine. He flew to the US and entered through Texas. He is white with blond hair and he was wearing a t-shirt very reminiscent of the Confederate flag.A security guard picked up his bag from the carousel, handed it to him, and very emphatically said "Welcome home, sir!".
by forinti
3/7/2026 at 1:26:31 PM
That’s actually not an example of someone with an American passport being prevented in because of their skin color.by groundzeros2015
3/6/2026 at 4:33:48 PM
How would a guard know who a bag belongs to?by mixmastamyk
3/6/2026 at 4:40:58 PM
It must have been the x-ray conveyer belt, not the carousel.by forinti
3/6/2026 at 5:40:56 PM
Pretty sure you don't go through an x-ray conveyor belt when you exit a plane.I think something was lost in the telling. I could see a kiosk worker saying this or similar.
by staticman2
3/8/2026 at 1:47:37 AM
On intl flights thru Houston I’ve had to exit, grab bags, carry them to security again, then proceed to the next leg of flight.by mixmastamyk
3/7/2026 at 2:31:58 PM
What is the incident? The security guard being nice?by Saline9515
3/6/2026 at 5:01:16 PM
Don't put words in my mouth, don't say silly things.I'm well aware the color your skin matters a lot, but your passport also matters, especially at the border.
You're better off with white skin and a US passport than with white skin and a British passport, but you're also better off with brown skin and a US passport than brown skin and a British passport and that's still better than brown skin and a third-world passport.
And yeah, even if you're a white man with a US passport, you still might end up shot by ICE if you're in Minneapolis (doesn't mean you're less likely to be targeted).
by hyperpape
3/6/2026 at 8:42:17 PM
> I'm well aware the color your skin matters a lot, but your passport also matters, especially at the border.The way things are currently operating, the border is probably the place you have to worry the least as it's staffed by CBP folks which have probably had training: it's the rest of the country with ICE randos running around that seem to be the worrisome areas. Just ask the South Koreans:
* https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/sep/12/s...
> You're better off with white skin and a US passport than with white skin and a British passport, but you're also better off with brown skin and a US passport than brown skin and a British passport […]
Are we talking at the border or the rest of the country? At the border with CBP a US passport would probably be best. With the rest of the country, with ICE, white skin and a British (or any) passports would probably be 'best'.
by throw0101d
3/6/2026 at 8:48:57 PM
Good observation, I meant at the border. Your passport won't matter that much if you get stopped by a cop.But also, look carefully at the comparisons I offered. I didn't include all the combinations, because I only was including comparisons that were obviously true without any room for ambiguity or nitpicking.
As you noted, a black citizen might be treated better at the border and worse during a traffic stop compared to a white foreigner.
by hyperpape
3/6/2026 at 7:23:42 PM
hell of a typo in that last sentence, and I can't edit.I meant to say "doesn't mean you're not less likely to be targeted".
by hyperpape
3/6/2026 at 7:23:36 PM
>You're better off with white skin and a US passport than with white skin and a British passport, but you're also better off with brown skin and a US passport than brown skin and a British passport and that's still better than brown skin and a third-world passport.Tell me you're not an American without telling me you're not an American.
I hate to say it, but to many (racist) Americans, brown skin < anything else ... and ICE has a disproportionate number of those people, because they deliberately hire them.
by hungryhobbit
3/6/2026 at 7:27:05 PM
1. A few messages upthread, I note that I'm an American, and I'm from the South. Quite familiar with how racist folks can be.2. Reread what I wrote, it's not contradicted by what you said.
by hyperpape
3/7/2026 at 1:28:35 PM
There is no evidence for any of this.by groundzeros2015
3/6/2026 at 3:26:05 PM
I’ve read some horror stories already that are enough for me to decide that I will not go to the U.S. until sanity returns. Here is one: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/feb/21/karen-newton...by Joeri
3/6/2026 at 3:34:22 PM
Probabilistically speaking, the entire thing is fine.But seeing my engineer freak out about flying in a plane, despite passing Diff Eq and knowing the probability of a crash... Feelings/emotions do matter.
This is why populist demagogues win elections... ugh...
by butILoveLife
3/6/2026 at 3:30:10 PM
I have a US passport. I'm avoiding the US. ICE has already openly killed US passport holders. My Irish accent could get me in trouble or create a misunderstanding. Why risk anything like that?by s_dev
3/6/2026 at 3:27:27 PM
Being a USC is no assurance, I've sat in immigration jail cuffed and legs bound where every other person but me was brown and spoke another language. It is rather bizarre when it happens because none of them empathize with you because at the end of the day you know you have the right to enter and they are just fucking with you out of sadism, while for the others they are wondering if they'll be deported. Although generally after a shift or two they forget why they were fucking with you and you get released.by mothballed
3/6/2026 at 6:06:43 PM
Our president is abusive, he hired other abusers ("stephen miller", etc), and they are spreading abuse.I WISH governments would be for the people and not for the powerful who can buy "justice" .. for themselves.
by ncr100
3/6/2026 at 3:31:58 PM
Just this week we had yet again someone in German TV telling their pleasure to be put into jail and sent back to Germany, due to her tatoos.Unfortunely my home country has too many fanboys of older times, aka Chega, so I hope you still manage a good time there.
by pjmlp
3/6/2026 at 2:59:30 PM
US tourism declined in 2025 but the number has been relatively flat since then.These recent job losses are probably not attributable to tourism since that’s unchanged year over year.
I’m not saying tourism is not a factor or denying anecdotes about people not visiting the US, but I don’t think it’s the explanation for the February 2026 job losses.
by Aurornis
3/6/2026 at 5:15:57 PM
I agree that there are other factors likely impacting job losses in 2026, but it is possible that the impacts of a tourism downturn are only now being felt.One thing worth noting is that the tax structure of American cities can be more based on sales taxes than property taxes, and so if tourism is down, and sales is down, this will begin to impact city budgets, which can have rippling effects elsewhere. For example municipal cutbacks to landscaping budgets could impact private contractors etc.
by Tiktaalik
3/6/2026 at 4:13:21 PM
> I’m not saying tourism is not a factor or denying anecdotes about people not visiting the US, but I don’t think it’s the explanation for the February 2026 job losses.This is accurate. This thread is people emoting. I get it, might as well let it out. Tourism being major part of the US GDP feels like countries whose GDP depends on tourism, projecting. I get that too, if that is the paradigm you live in every day, that is the lens you view things through.
Tourism is probably affecting local economies at the margins, and there is a real loss there for those communities. The US GDP as a whole? Not even a rounding error.
by irishcoffee
3/6/2026 at 4:54:54 PM
Most US tourism is domestic, the effect of a 12% drop in international tourism arrivals is a rounding error even for the US tourism industry as a whole, much less the US economy overall (tourism is 3% of total, compared to ~10% in other major tourist destinations like France).Emoting and wishful thinking is exactly right, and I say that as a Canadian who is participating in this boycott. I'm not doing it to hurt the US economy, because I know it won't matter one bit even if we all stay away. It'll hurt some border destinations, but will hardly register in most places. Facts are facts.
by kspacewalk2
3/6/2026 at 5:07:29 PM
Tourism is a rounding error. Euros buying US arms are a rounding error. The benefits of a relationship with XYZ country is a rounding error. Any change we want to make to improve healthcare affordability is a rounding error. Everything around discussing improving housing affordability is a rounding error.The US economy is driven in part by coal which employs 40,000 people. Rounding errors have impacts and are part of policy discussion all the time. It only gets shut down with 'rounding error' when it's referring to average people issues without clout.
Calling things rounding errors is the US equivalent speech as russian style apathy propaganda.
by _DeadFred_
3/6/2026 at 6:27:37 PM
It's not just tourism. Economically, the US does not depend on the rest of the world nearly as much as any other developed country. Trade (exports and imports) as percentage of GDP is the lowest of all major economies, by far. This is not up for discussion it's a fact you must ground everything else in.Having established that, you know the firm upper bound on economic (not cultural or political or podcast-topic-generating) impact that international tourism boycott will have on the US. Same for putting tariffs on US goods. If you ignore this, you'll be surprised by how little this matters in the end, economically. Conversely, if you keep yourself firmly grounded in reality you can still in fact be against these policies on different grounds - on the fact that over time their cumulative economic and non-economic effect will hurt, on the fact that a lot of the reasons for these policies are fanciful nationalist bullshit (no, manufacturing jobs aren't and won't be coming back). But don't expect us staying away from your country, or putting a tariff on your shitty cars or cucumbers or whatever, to make a difference. Why is that controversial?
by kspacewalk2
3/6/2026 at 8:08:43 PM
The foreign tourism segment is 20% of the size of the US ag industry. Saying this is a rounding error is ridiculous. 10% of US tourism employment would be 1.5 million people employed as a result of foreign tourism (total tourism employment is 15 million).To say this a tiny unimportant segment that isn't worth talking about is ridiculous. Again especially considering the consideration the Republicans give tiny industries like coal which employs 40,000.
It's worth talking about a segment that employs 1.5 million in a discussion about 92k job loses.
by _DeadFred_
3/7/2026 at 1:34:14 PM
It’s not a big deal that you think this, but it isn’t nearly as important or poignant for the US economy as you’re wanting it to be.by irishcoffee
3/7/2026 at 5:14:26 PM
My bad talking about employment on a thread about job cuts and giving background that a rounding error that doesn't matter is still 1.5 million US jobs. The US isn't 'too big to fail'. Death by a thousand cuts is still death. Ignoring each cut because they aren't important enough (only 1.5 million out of the 15 million travel workers) or poignant is dumb.by _DeadFred_
3/8/2026 at 1:31:36 AM
Nobody claimed the US was too big to fail. Now that I understand your goal, I can fully grasp your frustration.I suggest not dying on this hill, it isn’t worth the emotional turmoil.
by irishcoffee
3/6/2026 at 5:32:12 PM
I would indeed be cautious about attributing economic downturn to holiday spending, but I don't think Las Vegas can breathe freely now. It could be a canary in the coal mine. Some might say, the death of a canary is a rounding error. Others might say: what else is at risk?by exceptione
3/7/2026 at 1:38:04 PM
St Patrick’s day folds into March madness folds into nba/nhl playoffs folds into Memorial Day folds into Independence Day, Vegas is about to get slammed.by irishcoffee
3/6/2026 at 5:20:25 PM
GDP being affected negatively by reductions in tourism, with the loss being offset by increased business for Raytheon as well as the human centipede-like economics of big tech companies buying stuff from other big tech companies, sounds about right.by justin66
3/7/2026 at 12:46:30 AM
Perhaps so. But also, the other thing is that this administration has been stalling on releasing monthly numbers on employment for several months now, either releasing them very late or even not at all.If you believe the administration, it's been because BLS "has the wrong numbers" or that they need "interpretation" or "adjustment"...
... or it's because they've been garbage for a while now and trending in this direction because, shocking, I realize, maybe Trump isn't the economic mastermind he likes to cosplay as inside his head.
by FireBeyond
3/11/2026 at 5:40:48 PM
1. -92K is a drop in a bucket. It's not what moves the needle for anything here, except looking at the trends. Revisions are the big swings now and those are not something the market likes -- which is why many are calling for a quarterly or even bi annual releases.2. International Tourism in the US is not that big. Total international visits were expected to fall from 72.4 million (2024) to about 67.9 million (2025). https://www.ustravel.org/press/us-travel-forecast-2025-modes... So visitors to the U.S. dropped about 6% in 2025. I've seen some crazy numbers in this chat. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fewer-foreigners-visited-us...
More than 1.5 billion tourists spent $11.7 trillion on hotels, cruises and flights last year, according to the data from the World Travel and Tourism Council.
A fall of $12.5 billion is a lot but not something that will alter anything significant.
The majority of the people that are declining to travel to US are Example drops recorded:
Germany: ↓ 28% Spain: ↓ 25% UK: ↓ 18% Canada: ↓ 17% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_the_United_States
3. Some states and some countries are going the opposite (Argentina, Israel, two examples). https://skift.com/2025/12/29/us-international-travel-which-s...
4 .There is an offset by Americans traveling inside the US as well. https://www.thetravel.com/how-and-why-us-international-touri...
Overall, this is a small macro impact.
by ethics13
3/6/2026 at 2:36:09 PM
Any business which exports especially to Canada (because oddly between tariffs and repeated threats of invasion US products and services are not seen in a positive light), likewise any business up or downstream of mostly immigrant workforces.by masklinn
3/6/2026 at 4:50:45 PM
The vast majority of tourism in the US (around 90%) is domestic. The total drop of inbound international tourism is about 12%. The effect is noise-level compared to larger economic forces at play. The US is just not an international tourism dependent country in any way.by kspacewalk2
3/6/2026 at 5:11:41 PM
Most industries take notice when they lose 12% of a market. This is Russian style propaganda to say 'ignore this it's nothing'. We have an insane amount of policy/policy discussion around coal which only employs 40,000 people.I live in a border state with Canada and this is having a huge impact for my community and those around us. I can't imaging it not impacting at least 40,000 Americans.
by _DeadFred_
3/6/2026 at 6:19:40 PM
It's not 12% of the market. It's 12% of 10% of the market. As I said, a Canadian boycott will hurt some (close to the) border destinations, but will hardly register in most places. I'm personally not crossing that border because it doesn't feel safe to do so, and because of the threats to our independence, but I know for sure it won't have a noticeable nationwide impact even if we all stay away, and the French and the Germans and the Japanese do too. Noticing objective reality and economic facts is not "Russian propaganda".Sure, if there's potential for using this situation for political gain it'll maybe make a political impact, but there will not be an economic one, not above the SNR of what else is going on.
by kspacewalk2
3/6/2026 at 7:50:36 PM
Edit2: My bad if you felt attacked by me. That was my frustration with the current world presenting everything as too big to address, just give up and leave it be.It's 12% of the international market. That is the segment. Any business is going to pay attention when they lose 12% of a market segment. Travel is 2.5% of GDP, above agriculture (0.9%), mining (1.3%), and utilities (1.5%) so a very outsize industry. Straight 10% of that (international travel) makes the rounding error market segment 20% of the size of our entire ag industry.
That is your 'rounding error' a segment that brings in 20% of the entire United States ag industry.
Tourism is also 15 million jobs so a 'rounding error' to such a large industry isn't necessarily a 'rounding error' to our population. 10% of that would be 1.5 million jobs. The entire US agriculture industry employs 812,600.
Again, the party that makes ridiculous claims for political impact is the one so concerned over 40,000 coal industry jobs but unconcerned about the fate of 1.5 million US workers because it's a small 'rounding error'.
https://www.squaremouth.com/travel-advice/us-tourism-statist... https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Farming-Fishing-and-Forestry/Agricul... https://www.trade.gov/feature-article/december-2024-internat...
Edit: My bad if you felt attacked. Everything just gets hand waived away as too big to do anything about nodays. I don't buy it. I'm a software developer. I was mentored on the montra 'how do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time'. It's the only way to create complex software solutions, and it's the only way to address our complex world. We shouldn't waive things away as rounding errors when they are part of a complex system. Especially when you consider the US Federal system. If you lose all the border states (most tourism comes from Mexico/Canada) you can easily lose control of the Federal government.
by _DeadFred_
3/6/2026 at 3:09:15 PM
Conversely, I live in the Netherlands (though I am originally from California) and my entire summer is booked full of either family or friends visiting from the US - the friends are mostly here to get a feel for the place and see if they want to emigrate.I wonder how many Americans of means are vacationing abroad instead of domestically just to get some respite...
by CalRobert
3/6/2026 at 3:25:12 PM
I had never vacationed abroad in my whole life, then last year I traveled separately to Amsterdam (with 2 nights in Groningen) and Paris. Both trips ended up being cheaper than similar domestic trips. Both times I was extremely sad to return home.I would love to emigrate to Europe. One of the nights in Amsterdam, I couldn't sleep and spent the night frantically researching how to legally emigrate.
by Uncle_Brumpus
3/6/2026 at 4:09:26 PM
It’s getting insanely popular but the Dutch American friendship treaty is worth a look.by CalRobert
3/6/2026 at 4:14:40 PM
That's a bit ironic.If all of the undocumented people in the US spent this much time trying to emigrate legally, the US wouldn't need ICE and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
by xhkkffbf
3/6/2026 at 7:01:45 PM
There are 2 separate topics that seem to get bundled together a lot.1. Should we deport illegal immigrants? While there are some debate here (sanctuary cities, immigration reform etc), it's not the primary cause of the current ICE repulsion.
2. How deportations are done currently. Mass round ups, targeting everyone, including those with no criminal record, the violence involved. This is what most people are against.
by yibg
3/6/2026 at 5:13:42 PM
Our immigration system is broken. Reagan realized this in the 1980s and gave amnesty to millions and Republicans were going to reform it. But businesses being able to abuse an unprotected 'undocumented class' won out instead.by _DeadFred_
3/6/2026 at 5:27:37 PM
> If all of the undocumented people in the US spent this much time trying to emigrate legallyMany of the "undocumented people" (what an Orwellian phrase) that have been rounded up by ICE are picked up during court hearings or immigration interviews. An easy way for agents to meet their quota without doing any actual investigative work. Say what you will about them but there's no denying those people were by definition "trying to emigrate legally." This has been widely reported.
by justin66
3/7/2026 at 2:01:14 PM
> Many of the "undocumented people" (what an Orwellian phrase)Yeah. Also "Illegal aliens" used often by US government officials is even more Orwellian.
by rapnie
3/6/2026 at 5:44:51 PM
No. If you're "trying to X legally", that means you don't just do X anyway no matter what the legal system says. Next you'll claim that robbers are trying to earn a living legally".by xhkkffbf
3/6/2026 at 6:18:08 PM
> no matter what the legal system saysI appreciate the way you phrased that, "what the legal system says" rather than "the laws," since it's important to keep in mind a lot of what we're talking about is mercurial executive branch policy rather than statutory law. (which is why US immigration has been such a shitshow for such a long time)
On the other hand, you're apparently ignorant of what's actually happening, and it's making you write stupid things. The Trump administration's policy changes when he took office immediately made a lot of people, not my choice of words, "illegal" immigrants instead of "legal" immigrants. Maybe you support that, that's your business, but to claim those people were not "trying to emigrate legally" because the new administration changed the rules is simply dishonest.
by justin66
3/7/2026 at 5:49:44 PM
As someone who immigrated here, legally, from a low-risk country, I can tell you it cost the best part of $35,000 going through the process, and byzantine weirdnesses and requirements that included things like my mother-in-law signing surety on my usage of Social Security and Medicare and other financial commitments because US immigration is in some ways so broken that it cannot at all comprehend a world where the immigrant might be the breadwinner, and not the USC (I was working as an experienced senior IT person while my US partner was back in college).Ultimately, it would have been quicker, easier, and cheaper (and in the end, just as legal as my immigration) to come here on a tourist visa or the VWP, marry her in spite of the prohibition thereon, and ask for forgiveness and apply to be able to stay anyway.
When it's those three things versus "legal immigration", and other factors, I rather empathize with many of those people.
And as for your comment, it's more and more apparent that Trump intends for ICE to be his cudgel for all manner of opposition, not just immigration issues (witness the attempts to extort Minnesota into handing over state voter rolls, "We will move ICE enforcement out of the state if you do") so no, we'd still be having it.
by FireBeyond
3/6/2026 at 4:20:16 PM
Most illegal immigrants could spend the rest of their lives trying to immigrate legally and never make it, so that doesn't seem rational. Being undocumented is their best bet, as long as they don't break the criminal law once they're past the border and they make it 100 miles past the border their odds of being caught are next to nil. ICE is mostly catching people that either turn up in the legal system or are documented somewhere where they can be found.by mothballed
3/6/2026 at 5:53:01 PM
Uh. Most of us will spend our whole lives trying to earn money but never make it to being billionaires. So are you saying it's rational to disregard the legal system and steal?The irony is rich here. Country X is bad for enforcing its immigration laws. So let's run off to country Y and dutifully follow its immigration laws.
by xhkkffbf
3/6/2026 at 6:07:41 PM
That depends if it's more practical to steal a billion or earn it legally. I suspect the most practical way to get to a billion is to legally steal it, perhaps with some form of regulatory capture or a government franchise granting a monopoly. Whether you think this is right or wrong is immaterial to what the practical approach is.It is definitely easier to immigrate illegally for a large portion of the world population, and probably most illegal immigrants. Rational actor then would immigrate illegally.
I think this also very much depends on the country. Only a total idiot would try to "legally" immigrate to Argentina as their constitution essentially grants citizenship just for surviving for two years, and meanwhile there is essentially no immigration enforcement and fairly onerous visa process to do it "legally." On the other hand, you'd have to be an idiot to illegally immigrate to China in anything but the most dire circumstances, as they have an Orwellian surveillance apparatus and getting a legal business visa is fairly straightforward particularly in some special economic zones. On the Argentina<->China scale I would rate America as further towards the Argentina side, albeit with no path to regularization of status for most illegal immigrants.
Having a dogmatic adherance to the law leads to irrational actions. But also having a dogmatic disdain for the law also leads to irrational actions. Everything has to be considered in context. In the context of the USA you mostly have to be an idiot to try and immigrate legally if you are low skilled poor person from a 3rd world country with no connections. In the context of an educated American going to Europe, the rational choice is probably to immigrate legally.
From this lenses I don't really see any logical inconsistency in the fact the same person might pick illegal on one path and legal for another. Although yes if they are leaving the US because they hate immigration controls and dogmatically following immigration controls overseas in someplace like Argentina where it doesn't even make sense to do so, then they are definitely hypocrites.
by mothballed
3/7/2026 at 12:53:05 AM
ICE has been regularly picking people up at their asylum hearings and deporting them. That is precisely people trying to emigrate legally.by UncleMeat
3/6/2026 at 3:47:03 PM
> the friends are mostly here to get a feel for the place and see if they want to emigrateAs a US citizen who has daydreamed about moving to a Dutch city like Ultrecht I'm curious what they found, and how it feels to be an immigrant in the Netherlands.
by angiolillo
3/6/2026 at 4:08:45 PM
I live very close to Utrecht and I adore the city. We literally have kids in groups biking to the canal with fishing rods.by CalRobert
3/6/2026 at 8:05:01 PM
Sounds lovely. Our kids enjoyed the local bikepacking trips we did this summer, perhaps our next will visit the area. (In the off chance you have personal recommendations for bike touring companies/routes, let me know.)by angiolillo
3/7/2026 at 8:05:03 AM
I’m afraid I don’t but that sounds very nice!by CalRobert
3/6/2026 at 4:13:20 PM
It's not so easy to do. You can't just daydream about it. A friend of mine spent 18 months just with the paperwork. He's now making half of what he might make at home, but he's happy. The people are definitely friendly and welcoming, but the legal system makes it hard. And the businesses know this so they underpay because they can.by xhkkffbf
3/6/2026 at 7:13:56 PM
I have a general sense of the difficulty based on preliminary discussions with an immigration lawyer, but the Netherlands seems like one of the easier routes we're considering.The reason it's "daydreaming" is that we're not yet ready to give up on New England, but I'd still like to start getting our ducks in a row in case there's a rush for the exits and we have to move quickly.
> He's now making half of what he might make at home, but he's happy.
Sounds like what we're looking for.
by angiolillo
3/6/2026 at 6:49:00 PM
What visa takes 18 months?!?by CalRobert
3/6/2026 at 5:50:17 PM
it pays less but it's very nice.by airza
3/6/2026 at 4:40:09 PM
My partner and I were planning a West Coast trip for the World Cup this year for my 40th, but we decided to solely do Canada instead. Can't see how it won't end up being the best decision we've ever made.by m4tthumphrey
3/6/2026 at 2:58:17 PM
Allegedly the biggest package tour operator in the UK has seen a 72% drop in holidays to the US for 2026.by onion2k
3/6/2026 at 3:05:55 PM
The number of promotional emails I get from Virgin and British Airways, offering pretty big discounts for US destinations, suggests this is true.by cjrp
3/6/2026 at 3:16:34 PM
That can't be right, the real figure is probably closer to 7%.by Luc
3/6/2026 at 4:03:25 PM
On top of the stringent border checks and Minneapolis, Brits are now seeing things like this and thinking twice: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/feb/21/karen-newton...by captainbland
3/6/2026 at 3:43:06 PM
I don't think it's entirely due to US politics. The strength of the dollar against the pound, the perception of the US as not being a fashionable place to go, the fact that most news about the US in the UK media is either war, Epstein, or ICE, measured against some very competitive offers for other destinations that don't have those problems, makes me believe it's certainly a high percentage. FWIW in my teams (approx. 100 people, all in the UK) I can only think of one person who travelled to the US in the last year, and that was a trip to Disney they'd had booked in for a while. The rest have all been going to southern Europe, Japan etc.by onion2k
3/6/2026 at 5:36:17 PM
72% is just not a believable figure. I assume we're talking about TUI here, and they haven't announced anything about this 72% as far as I can tell.by Luc
3/7/2026 at 7:34:06 AM
TUI is German rather than UK-based, and they're not a package operator (although they do own several.)by onion2k
3/6/2026 at 3:34:45 PM
LOL. Why not? I wouldn't want to travel here. We're arresting people off the streets for no reason. It's fucking horrible.by jazzypants
3/6/2026 at 2:44:42 PM
An acquaintance had his phone taken away at a US airport by a border guard (or whatever you call them) for inspection. The guard went through his messaging apps, read chats. I understand the necessity for occasional physical searches for contraband or what have you, but reading private conversations is beyond what I can stomach. That, together with the infamous case of some guy being forbidden entry to US because he had the wrong meme on his phone, feels like Soviet Union bullshit. Actually, now that I mention this, reading my messages is fine compared to looking through my photos. I find it insane that this is happening in a first world country. I'm not a fan of hyperboles, but, man, this is just like what I'm told Soviet Union was like. I think I'll be skipping events in US for the next decade or so.by dmos62
3/6/2026 at 2:50:24 PM
Even a single CBP employee scrolling through your texts feels like too much to me. But when they take your phone, they're making copies of all the content in the phone and as much as possible from any apps/websites you're logged into. And that permanently lives in a database which doesn't afford you even the very thin veil of protection against misuse that a US citizen might be granted.It does all seem to be too much.
by nerdsniper
3/6/2026 at 2:52:04 PM
Curious, how do they make copies of everything? Do they just film the phone as they're scrolling it?by dmos62
3/6/2026 at 2:56:46 PM
They plug the phone into a computer and use software to literally clone it, so everything on the phone. All logs, emails, messages, photos, contacts, deleted files if they’re recoverable, passwords, everything.by meeb
3/6/2026 at 3:12:26 PM
Would an iphone in lockdown mode have any resistance to this?by CalRobert
3/6/2026 at 3:47:26 PM
The latest iPhone model in lockdown mode would be super resistant. Lockdown mode is specifically engineered to protect against Cellebrite / Pegasus-level threats.However, if you’re a noncitizen you might be refused entry, and if you are a citizen you might never see that phone again. The phone will be stored for years until/if Cellebrite finds a vulnerability in that iPhone model, and then it will be searched. Also the government might target your future phones for Pegasus-style remote attacks, so if you present your phone to CBP in lockdown mode, you may want to leave lockdown mode enabled forever.
Modern iPhones are very, very hard (impossible) to crack today if they’re locked down properly: strong password, biometrics disabled, and/or lockdown mode.
by nerdsniper
3/6/2026 at 5:21:54 PM
Very interesting. Are there any technical hindrances that prevent Android being the same ?by srean
3/6/2026 at 6:28:11 PM
Slightly out of my depth, hopefully others weigh in.Getting a very good lockdown mode requires both owning the entire stack (Apps + OS + Silicon) and being willing to sacrifice repairability (swapping chips/cameras/displays/touch controllers is a good way to help hack into a phone), and willingness to spend a lot of money on something that few people would actually pay for. Apple is the only company that's even positioned to take on this challenge.
AndroidOS has to work with a bunch of core functionality chips that Google/Samsung don't make. Having a bunch of different code paths/interfaces for a bunch of different SoC's, cellular modems, touch controllers, and cameras is not a winning recipe for security. Both Google and Samsung also use their own SoC's (Google Tensor G5, Samsung Exynos) but Samsung also uses a lot of Qualcomm Snapdragons ... and if you're using someone else's SoC there's no chance in hell of coming up with a proper "Lockdown Mode". Samsung or Google might be able to come up with a fully integrated solution someday, each have invested in parts of this. Beyond SOC's, Samsung has their custom silicon which helps them lock down security for their combo touch/display controller. Samsung has also invested a lot into customizing their Knox Secure Folder solutions (and everything else branded "Knox" as well, which is all mostly industry-leading for Android options). Google has the Pixel with their own Titan M2 security chip, and obviously they own the OS.
But it's a lot of work when so much of your engineering is dealing with changes that other companies are making. Google has to keep up with Samsung's hardware changes, because the tail wags the dog there, and Samsung spends a lot of engineering time figuring out how to deal with / customize / fork changes to AndroidOS that Google pushes (while the dog still wags the tail, too). Both have to deal with whatever Qualcomm throws at them for cellular modems, and it required a monumental effort/expense from Apple to only just recently bring up a replacement for Qualcomm's modems.
by nerdsniper
3/7/2026 at 8:41:50 AM
Thanks for replying. Such a comprehensive and well thought comment ought to have been a top standalone comment.by srean
3/6/2026 at 6:08:52 PM
I don't think so, I use GrapheneOS and I think I can't even use the USB-C port for anything other than charging (which should be configurable).by Mkengin
3/7/2026 at 12:10:04 PM
It is configurable. It can be used to charge (either way), for data transfer, or for remote control. You can set it up with a fixed behavior, or to request permission everytime you plug a data cable.by sebastiennight
3/7/2026 at 1:56:03 PM
Yes, all Android phones except for GrapheneOS are vulnerable to something, so they'll just copy the flash storage and hand it back to you.by gzread
3/6/2026 at 4:19:30 PM
Yes it’s resistant but then they can just deny your entry into the country.by mikeyouse
3/6/2026 at 6:20:01 PM
You wish, they might just put you in a detension centre for a few weeks and take their own sweet time sending you back.You are in legal limbo before you enter the country.
by Lio
3/6/2026 at 5:46:04 PM
Presumably not if you’re a citizen but then, who knowsby CalRobert
3/6/2026 at 10:03:01 PM
Right this was in the context of Canadians visiting - they can’t deny entry if you’re a US citizen but they can certainly make the entry uncomfortable.by mikeyouse
3/6/2026 at 3:17:12 PM
I don't think we have access to all of the functionality of the devices, and all of the devices themselves, that are sold to governments.by heavyset_go
3/6/2026 at 2:54:22 PM
They connect it to a little box that hacks into the phone and downloads everything. Search for "Cellebrite Universal Forensic Extraction Device (UFED)" or "Grayshift GrayKey". The border agent doesn't have to know anything about phones/computers, it's just "plug in, press button". With modern phones, they really only work if you unlock your phone before handing it to them, and they'll make you do that. If you don't unlock the phone and let them walk off with it for awhile, they'll refuse you entry into the USA and send you back.US citizens are, of course, allowed in even if they refuse, but they will confiscate a citizen's phone in exchange for a custody receipt (Form 6051-D) and they are supposed to return it to the US citizen after they break into the phone / crack the encryption. If they can't crack it, they can choose to never return the phone to the US citizen. And it can be a very stressful situation in which citizens may not know what their rights are in the moment (or can't afford to replace their phone or lose access to it because how would you even get an Uber from the airport or coordinate a pickup if you don't have a phone).
You can choose to bring burner phones or make sure your phone is freshly factory reset, but if you're a non-citizen that can also be a reason to be refused entry, and if you are a citizen that can "get you on a list", leading to getting "SSSS" stamped on every boarding pass for every flight you take, in every country in the world, for the next many years. If your boarding pass gets "SSSS" written on it, you will get pulled aside by security and all your bags get individually hand-searched prior to every single flight (even transfers/connections/layovers).
Non-citizens are also sometimes asked for a list of your social media accounts and the passwords to their social media accounts. Refusing to provide your passwords can be used as a reason to refuse entry to the USA. If the USA believes you have a social media account that you failed to tell them about, that can also be a reason to refuse entry.
Also, as of recently, visitors from 38 countries have to post a ~$10,000 bond just to be allowed into the USA.
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2023-09/Test_Results...
by nerdsniper
3/6/2026 at 3:13:00 PM
I tried entering without a phone or anything other than the clothes I was wearing so they didn't have anything to search. So instead they got a warrant for a cavity search (I'm still chased by debt collectors for this, as I was brought by prisoner van to a private hospital) , because they can't stand to not have anything to look at. They will fuck with you ruthlessly if there isn't something for them to scrutinize upon entry.by mothballed
3/6/2026 at 4:54:46 PM
This post alone should be a reason for tourism to the USA to drop to ~0%.I've visited a lot of countries in my life but I've never been treated as rudely as on the US border.
by jacquesm
3/7/2026 at 1:57:19 PM
Sounds like every citizen should come through with a burner phone until ICE doesn't have time to search everyone's bags.by gzread
3/6/2026 at 2:58:58 PM
Do a search for Cellebriteby heavyset_go
3/7/2026 at 1:55:01 PM
They use a specialized device like Cellebrite, there's a whole industry for thisby gzread
3/6/2026 at 4:24:21 PM
This is one of the big reasons I won't travel to the US anytime soon, even for work events. I really don't want to be put in a situation where you have to give a border guard access to your phone or risk detention or a future travel ban.by randlet
3/6/2026 at 3:10:58 PM
That happened to a friend of mine in 2010 so it's not a new thing.by dmix
3/6/2026 at 4:31:34 PM
Yeah I've never travelled internationally with my regular devices. I keep my last gen phone, a cheap LTE/5G tablet and a Chromebook as travel devices with limited data that I wipe/reload before/after crossing borders.by Marsymars
3/6/2026 at 2:30:07 PM
A lot of the US isn't visiting the US anymore either. For normal personal recessiony reasons but also I know word of mouth several large companies have cancelled planned recurring events in texas, florida, arizona, and not necessarily moved them anywhere else either.by giraffe_lady
3/6/2026 at 4:56:43 PM
That is a much bigger deal than international arrivals.by kspacewalk2
3/6/2026 at 3:05:29 PM
I just flew to us from Euro, plane only business class was full, rest was half or even more empty... It's usually full.Reminded me of COVID time...
by Bombthecat
3/6/2026 at 3:19:09 PM
I'm really anticipating what the World Cup will look like.Sure, there will always be die-hard fans that will show up not matter what, but with so many teams, I bet we'll see empty stadiums for some matches.
by forinti
3/6/2026 at 4:36:50 PM
Nope. As someone who has tried to get tickets, most of the matches are sold out, and even the least desirable matches are quite expensive.by MattRix
3/6/2026 at 3:31:30 PM
I'm curious about the Iran match.by debatem1
3/6/2026 at 3:55:42 PM
Most probably Iran will not take part at the tournament.by paganel
3/6/2026 at 4:49:02 PM
I'm 46 years old, this is the first world cup in my life that I will not watch.by MulliMulli
3/6/2026 at 3:50:23 PM
> empty stadiumsYou mean full of AI spectators.
by mekoka
3/6/2026 at 5:13:36 PM
My partner works for a small, foreign-tourist focused hospitality company in the US. She says their numbers have fallen off a cliff in the last year. Apparently everyone is hoping that the World Cup will make up for the decline in tourism, but the are way below expectations of where they thought they would be by now.by scoofy
3/6/2026 at 5:25:27 PM
I talked to someone who is hosting an international academic conference. Usually they have about 40% international attendees. This year it is like 3%.by malshe
3/6/2026 at 4:13:41 PM
This article mentions that leisure and hospitality are down: https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/06/economy/us-jobs-report-februa...by lapcat
3/6/2026 at 2:36:32 PM
I have some Euro friends that went to Dubai instead because the USA is “too dangerous” right now. I wish them safe passage back, but yeesh talk about irrational perspective.by nemo44x
3/6/2026 at 2:58:37 PM
I'm not a big fan of Dubai, but it used to be a really safe travel destination, at least for male travelers. A month or two ago there was no reason to assume it would be otherwise.BTW, the irony is that they decided not to go to the US, but they are victims of the danger caused by the US anyway.
by Al-Khwarizmi
3/6/2026 at 6:08:32 PM
I enjoy Dubai, but it’s is part of a state where showing a stranger the middle finger is punishable with jail and deportation, nevermind an expat criticism the emirs. It’s pretty telling to consider that safe but to be afraid of showing your passport to CBP.by bitcurious
3/7/2026 at 12:37:41 PM
I'm not defending their regime or implying that they have more freedom than in the US, but from the purely practical perspective of a traveler, the fact is that it's much easier and less disruptive to avoid showing anyone the middle finger or criticize the local government during a short trip than to go through social network profiles, IM conversations, etc. to remove any memes or negative opinions about Trump or the US.In short, the thing is that countries like UAE are predictable. Follow their laws and don't mess with them, and they won't mess with you. The US has become unpredictable, hence more dangerous.
by Al-Khwarizmi
3/6/2026 at 6:13:01 PM
All we gotta do is show passport to the CBP and that's it, we get in? All people avoiding travel to the USA are doing so because they have a bad photo in their passport? :)by bdangubic
3/7/2026 at 12:21:36 AM
Statistically, yes. Take a boogeyman from this thread - electronic device searches.Less than 0.01% of travelers to the US have their electronics screened. A similarly small fraction of travelers get turned away at the border. It's remarkable how big of a story it is for how much of a non-story it is, especially when you consider the fact that similar laws exists in the UK, France, most of the Middle East, East Asia, and more. The only story here is that America is (regretfully) becoming more like the rest of the world.
by bitcurious
3/7/2026 at 7:16:45 PM
Dubai is predictable evil. You know what to do to avoid trouble.The Trump admin acts like it is on cocaine. Many people - and I think this can be a highly rational preference - prefer predictable more evil of chaotic less evil.
by DirkH
3/6/2026 at 2:50:07 PM
Are you implying they knew that Iran would get bombed and would in retaliation bomb everyone across the Persian gulf?by dmos62
3/6/2026 at 5:29:52 PM
There were rumours about those things, and some western countries issued travel advisories a few days before. Either way, Dubai is not a good place to go, no matter what bribed influencers tell you.by Kwpolska
3/6/2026 at 6:16:55 PM
I’m implying that going anywhere in the Middle East (or a good deal of the world) has far more risk than going to the USA.by nemo44x
3/6/2026 at 3:10:30 PM
They definitely should have been aware that it's a significant risk. It can't be predicted with certainty, but it was pretty obvious that there's a good possibility of something kicking off. I occasionally take trips where flights connecting in Dubai would otherwise be a good option, but I won't do it. Partly because I'm the wrong ethnicity (yeah, UAE is buddy-buddy with Israel now... so was Iran before the revolution), but the risk of war breaking out is a big part it.It's not like this is the first time in recent history that region has been somewhat unsafe for travelers. Or the second time, or third, or fiftieth.
by wat10000
3/6/2026 at 4:24:41 PM
To me this seems pretty rational? I still don't think the US is more dangerous in an absolute sense than many places, but there's reason to hope that in a couple years the US will stop putting random unlucky tourists in ICE torture facilities. So if you don't have a strong preference about when you visit you might as well wait. Dubai is unlikely to stop being a conservative monarchy with harsh criminal laws in a volatile region.by SpicyLemonZest
3/6/2026 at 2:38:30 PM
I mean yeah, that's a dumb choice, for sure - but our company rescheduled all work events from their normal location in US to Montreal, Canada. Hundreds of people each. Sure, a small drop in the ocean, but I'm sure we're not the only ones.by gambiting
3/6/2026 at 3:07:29 PM
Yeah, my company delegation to a Vegas Conference (i don't know what they really do there tbh) got cut from 18 to two, with newly calibrated phone and empty laptops: no biometrics, no private keys, nothing, they don't even have access to their usual mail and have special addresses created just for the occasion. I think trust is _very_ low.by orwin
3/6/2026 at 2:43:34 PM
[flagged]by nemo44x
3/6/2026 at 4:57:54 PM
You're a great friend to your friends. FWIW: Dubai is unsafe because of the USA. They thought they were out of that sphere of influence unfortunately right now all bets are off, even Iceland and Cuba are not safe.by jacquesm
3/6/2026 at 2:50:03 PM
Yeah tough choice right now, don't know which one is more autocratic and oligarchic.by melenaboija
3/6/2026 at 2:56:21 PM
Maybe they mean dangerous as in the opposite of “emotional safety” - the greatest actual, real-life danger of coming to the US as a tourist (who isn’t trying to do crimes or sneakily overstay your visa) is still being offended. Compare this to Mexico where you might be kidnapped by cartels, or the Middle East where… things aren’t as safe right now. You can definitely blame us for that in the most immediate sense, but a case can be made that if Iran does choose to be different the region will be more safe eventually.by xp84
3/7/2026 at 4:19:39 AM
I see statistics like "inbound international tourism is down 8%" but I can't tell without context if that is just a typical drop or a cataclysmic decline.That said, I do see a lot of ads for domestic tourism to places that ordinarily would really have no need to advertise. Disney buying YouTube spots to persuade me,a US resident, to visit Florida seems remarkable. I suspect things are not rosy?
by kjellsbells
3/6/2026 at 5:26:46 PM
> I do not see the tourism industry mentioned here but I have to imagine that is a huge loss right now.“Tourism” is not a separately-tracked sector in the data, but would be reflected in several of the tracked sectors ("Leisure and hospitality” particularly, but slices of the tourism spend would be in several of the other tracked sectors.)
by dragonwriter
3/6/2026 at 5:31:10 PM
Many of those losses have been included in past numbers. Be mindful this is February numbers and many of the events that would cause big changes to tourism have had time to settle.With that said, I’m sure the US Iran conflict is going to have all kinds of fun effects.
by elictronic
3/6/2026 at 3:07:49 PM
Even tourism aside stuff like Tucson's Gem and Mineral show, basically an international commerce meetup, will suffer under the current situation and probably fade away for a different overseas alternative.by Glyptodon
3/6/2026 at 3:46:21 PM
I think the opposite, US is safer now with less crime/illegal immigrants so tourism is probably up, also with the 250th birthday and World Cup it's likely to be a record breaking year.by small_model
3/6/2026 at 3:52:26 PM
Some are not willing to visit US, but some, like me, are more willing to visit US. I will probably going for a business trip but I am willing to extend my stay to visit Florida for the Nature, Montana and Wyoming because I enjoyed the atmosphere in Yellowstone and Longmire TV series and Texas because I like the Texans.by DeathArrow
3/6/2026 at 4:45:27 PM
How many months are you planning on visiting? Traveling between WY, TX, FL, and MT represents hundreds and hundreds of miles, and many hours.Also of note, all four of those states are ‘Conservative’ havens…
by dnemmers
3/6/2026 at 5:39:21 PM
I will stay a few weeks. I will be visiting what is possible in that amount of time. I will probably be flying as driving would take too much time.I am interested in seeing some natural scenarios and also experiencing the American culture and way of living in mostly middle and small cities.
by DeathArrow
3/6/2026 at 5:00:03 PM
definitely, except that shedding jobs in february is unlikely to be tourism related. that's not typically a month in which tourism operators would be either hiring or firing.by notatoad
3/6/2026 at 4:55:57 PM
Las Vegas tourism is experiencing a significant downturn in early 2026, with 2025 finishing with a 7.5% decline in visitors—the sharpest drop outside the pandemic since 1970. - Google AIby strangattractor
3/6/2026 at 5:01:28 PM
interesting video I recently watched about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJcyDOjFLwQtl;dw - They say Vegas visitor numbers are down, but profits are actually up. This is because the tourism industry there has refocused on higher end clientele
by spogbiper
3/6/2026 at 7:36:05 PM
True, but that loss has been in for a while. Tourism began hemorrhaging a year ago from a combination of tariffs and ICE policy and Trump's bizarre obsession with Greenland (and associated alienation of former allies).by anigbrowl
3/6/2026 at 2:36:10 PM
[dead]by Helloworldboy
3/6/2026 at 4:59:52 PM
[flagged]by chazburger
3/6/2026 at 3:08:19 PM
The BBC quality of reporting is down the drain. BBC World on the TV version is now unwatchable, specially since they got sued.Here is much better quality reporting from NBC News with a breakdown per industry at 02:01 in the video:
"The U.S. economy lost 92,000 jobs in February, stoking labor market worries" - https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/2026-labor-market-s...
The most hysterically funny take on this is Cramer..( who else) and CBNC saying its AI...its NOT.
by inaros
3/6/2026 at 2:40:29 PM
>Most of the world is not visiting the US right nowOnly right now? The US touristic cities have been and continue to be the most expensive places in the world to visit by far, so most of the planet will never visit the US out of cost reasons alone, regardless of their views on $CURRENT_POLITICS.
Foreign tourism probably isn't large enough part of the US GDP to be making a dent in the US economy as a whole.
@WarmWash: where is the dollar collapsing? USD:EUR and USD:GBP are on par with where they were 10 years ago. Hardly a collapse. The people who can't afford flights and boarding in Vegas, Santa Monica or NY won't get any massive benefit from current currency fluctuations.
by joe_mamba
3/6/2026 at 2:48:41 PM
It accounts for 3% of the economy and provides around 15 million jobs. That’s absolutely going to make a dent.And international tourism supports local tourism. I think Las Vegas will continue to be a shell of what it was until international tourism rebounds.
BEA used to have these cool interactive tables on GDP by industry, but they’ve now been discontinued. It really feels like our current administration just does not like public data.
by toddmorey
3/6/2026 at 2:56:09 PM
Edit: I do think it’s fair to say our economy is much more diversified and resilient to a drop in tourism then a country like Spain where it’s closer to 20% GDP.But maybe the right way to frame it is it wouldn’t be felt as much nationally, but international tourism drops are pretty catastrophic to local economies of some of our biggest cities like New York Miami and Los Angeles Angeles.
by toddmorey
3/6/2026 at 2:50:21 PM
How much of that 3% is from foreign tourists versus domestic Americans?And what types of jobs are those 15 million? High paid high skilled or low pay low skilled?
Because from what I can tell you about EU tourism jobs, most jobs tourism creates over here are low pay, hard labor, unskilled jobs, mostly filled by minimum wage migrant seasonal workers who then send the money back home, meaning the biggest beneficiaries from those jobs are the wealthy land/business owners who exploit cheap mirant labor, and not the local workforce who mostly suffers gentrification as they don't work in low pay tourist jobs and have to deal with increased rents from tourism on top.
Plus, the massive black economy tourism creates where a lot of the money is under the table and avoids the tax man further compounds to the problem. So I doubt much of the US working class will suffer from a tourism stagnation.
@HEmanZ: Did you read anything I said? Who's losing their job when almost all tourism jobs are done by foreign seasonal workers? The locals mostly aren't losing any job because they don't work in tourism due to pay and work conditions.
Are you using the same logic to cry for the western workers making clothes and sneakers who lost their jobs to Asian sweatshops? Do you think they miss that type of jobs and would want them back?
by joe_mamba
3/6/2026 at 3:13:20 PM
> How much of that 3% is from foreign tourists versus domestic Americans?Probably all of it since tourism was 11% of total GDP in 2023, a third of that being international tourism would be on par with european averages.
by orwin
3/6/2026 at 7:10:22 PM
Where did you get 11% GDP from. Google says 3%.by joe_mamba
3/6/2026 at 7:35:21 PM
nvm i'm dumb, i can't read a chart: https://www.statista.com/statistics/292518/contribution-of-t...2023: 2.36T (i misread and took 2024 prediction)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/188105/annual-gdp-of-the...
2023: 27.7
2.36 / 27.7 * 100 ~ 8.5
so 8.5 percent, not 11
I don't have a paid access to the website since 2021, so i can't look at the primary/secondary data, but it never failed me, and doesn't have the bias more political economic institutes has, so i mostly take data from there. If you have different data i will take them.
by orwin
3/6/2026 at 3:08:36 PM
Ok so if that labor was someone’s job, that implies they couldn’t get something better for them. If you’re straight eliminating those jobs and now they have to take something even worse for them (lower pay, worse hours, worse personal satisfaction, etc)by HEmanZ
3/6/2026 at 7:10:31 PM
Did you read anything I said? Who's losing their job when almost all tourism jobs are done by foreign seasonal workers? The locals mostly aren't losing any job because they don't work in tourism due to pay and work conditions.Are you using the same logic to cry for the western workers making clothes and sneakers who lost their jobs to Asian sweatshops? Do you think they miss that type of jobs and would want them back?
by joe_mamba
3/6/2026 at 2:42:22 PM
Well the dollar collapsing does make it much cheaper, for better or worse.by WarmWash
