2/22/2026 at 4:48:30 PM
The caveat is that you might end up shaving a yak.More often than not I end up three or four tasks deep while trying to fix a tiny issue.
by nicbou
2/23/2026 at 9:22:56 PM
I think some people frame Yak shaving as a bad thing but I'm not sure it always is, and often even it is it is bad because you're resolving debt.The example with Hal is funny, repeatable (I share it frequently), but also the tasks are (mostly) independent. It feels more like my ADHD. They're things that need to get done, easy to put off/triage, and but make doing other tasks difficult so maybe they actually shouldn't be put off?
But there's also the classic example we're doing something is a bigger rabbit hole than expected. Usually because we were too naïve and oversimplified the problem. An old manager gave me a good rule of thumb: however long you think something is going to take, multiply it by 3. Honestly I think that number is too low and most people miss the mark. I'm pretty sure he stole it from Scotty from Star Trek but forgot that even that is fantasy.
Personal I think you have to be careful about putting off the little things. It's a million times easier to solve little problems than big ones. So you have to remember that just because it's a little problem now doesn't mean it'll grow. The danger is that it's little, so you forget about it. The shitty part is that if you tell you boss they get upset at you if you solve it now but you look like a genius if you solve it after it festers. Invisible work...
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/99114/source-of-sc...
by godelski
2/22/2026 at 7:21:36 PM
There is simply no general recipe for this. Sometimes I put my little tools and libraries in order and then I'm very productive with them and looking back it seems to have been the key enabler to the actual thing getting done. Other times I go dirty mode and just hardcode constants, copy code files under time pressure and looking back it is clear that getting to the same result with the clean approach would have taken months and the benefit for later tasks would be unclear.I know some are tired of AI discourse, but I found AI can help to sharpen the tools but at the same time I find that my scope grows such that dealing with the tools takes just as much time but the tools have more features "just in case" and support platforms or use cases that I won't often need, but it feels easy enough to just do, but then as I said it still takes long in total.
It's all mostly an emotional procrastination issue underneath it. Though that can go both ways. Sometimes you procrastinate on thinking about the overall architecture in favor of just making messy edits because thinking about the overall problem is more taxing than just doing a small iteration, sometimes you procrastinate on getting the thing done in favor of working on more tightly scoped neat little tools that are easier to keep in mind than the vague and sprawling overall goals.
by bonoboTP
2/23/2026 at 9:37:32 PM
I used to work as a physical engineer and a common task is "where's that tool?" People leave things at their work station and they float around and well... you can't keep track of things you can't see.Manager finally got fed up (yes, he was the biggest offender lol) and we organized the whole shop. Gave every tool a specific place. Required tools to be put back. But it actually became easier to put back because everything had a home and we made it so their home was accessible (that's the trick).
Took us like a week to do and it's one of those things that seemed useless. But no one had any doubts of the effectiveness of this because it'd be really difficult to argue that we didn't each spend more than a week (over a year) searching for things. Not only that, it led to fewer lost and broken tools. It also just made people less frustrated and led to fewer arguments. Maybe most important of all, when there was an emergency we were able to act much faster.
So that's changed my view on organizing. It's definitely a thing that's easy to dismiss and not obviously worth the investment but even in just a year there's probably a single event that is solved faster due to the organization. The problem is you have to value the money you would have lost were you not organized. It's invisible and thus easy to dismiss. It's easier because everything else seems so important. But there's always enough time to do things twice and never enough time to do it right.
by godelski
2/22/2026 at 8:39:55 PM
What looks like "wasting time on procrastination" may be actually "spending time on thinking". Thinking takes time.Making messy edits is a bet on previous code quality. If you have paid off enough technical debt, you can take another "technical loan" and expect the rest of the owl to still function despite the mess being introduced. If things are already messy, there's always a risk to make the fess incomprehensible and failing in mysterious seemingly unrelated ways, with the only way to fix it being to git reset --hard to the prior point, and do a more right thing. But the time would have been wasted already.
My approach is usually to timebox it, and cut the losses if an acceptable solution is not yet in sight when the time runs out.
by nine_k
2/22/2026 at 9:32:57 PM
[dead]by sandyagent
2/22/2026 at 11:26:35 PM
I don't like that 'yak shaving' has degenerated into a synonym for boondoggle.Some explanations of yak shaving split it into a complex form of procrastination and also necessary annoyances - friction - obstacles.
Sharpen your Tools often falls into the latter category, and it's always useful to question whether those 'necessary annoyances' are actually necessary.
It is, like you say, not always necessary to tackle those annoyances right now. But it is a situation where both the Campsite Rule and the Rule of Three have some domain. As a person whose entire job is about writing code to replace tedious and error-prone human tasks, you need to interrogate yourself any time you start thinking, "This is my life now." Because if anyone has the power to say 'no', it's us.
It's always worth spending 12-15 minutes most times you do a task that you have to do over and over again in service of trying to reduce the task from ten minutes to five or to zero. The reward for engaging in the task more fully rather than putting it off until it has to be done is that you're working toward a day when maybe you don't have to do it at all (you've automated it entirely or you've made it straightforward enough to delegate).
Hal's example is so funny because he's using both arms to scoop in everything from Column A and Column B at the same time. Everybody gets a laugh. A couple of those tasks actually had to be done. A couple could have gone on the shopping list.
by hinkley
2/22/2026 at 11:38:27 PM
I always saw it as being multiple subtasks deep into a problem, or opening too many parentheses. Yak shaving does not imply that you're wasting time, only that the task involves solving problems that feel remote to your initial objective.For example, I want to use ES6 modules on my website, then esbuild to compile them. However masonry.js breaks it, and instead of fixing it, I decided to get rid of it, but that breaks the layout of the /guides page, and while I'm there I might as well reorganise the list of guides.
So now I'm on week 2 of the switch to ES6, but I ended up redesigning a page, writing a bunch of tests, fixing unrelated UI bugs, making a few UX fixes, making changes to the static site generator, etc etc.
I get to do that because I'm self-employed and thinking long-term, but if I was at $PREVIOUS_EMPLOYER doing sprints, my boss would be wondering why I spent an entire sprint on this simple task.
by nicbou
2/23/2026 at 6:12:22 AM
> I don't like that 'yak shaving' has degenerated into a synonym for boondoggle.What do you mean "degenerated"? The term was always a synonym for procrastination and slacking off. It's just that in some cases the procrastinator/slacker argued otherwise.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210112174206/http://projects.c...
by locknitpicker
2/23/2026 at 2:02:08 PM
Aside from the origin, there're situations in which you need to somehow shave the yak.Yes, it's about procrastination, but not of the task at hand. You procrastinate in some older task that's really blocking what you need to do now.
It's chain procrastination. Oldest task blocks older task that blocks old task that blocks current task. It's evil because it overflows the task planning buffer. Also you get used to say nah when you start to think in a task in that general direction.
Maybe you should shave the fricking yak already. Or maybe you should use fake yak hair, idk.
by narag
2/23/2026 at 8:05:27 PM
The thing about the Mikado method is that you’re taking what from your perspective is a top down task and flipping it to bottom up. Which is for instance more amenable to refactoring, which is a bottom up task.Sometimes when you get to the bottom you discover a shorter route backup to the top. The trap is that since you “already wrote the code” is seems a shame to delete it. But that code hasn’t been reviewed or vetted and “code is not the bottleneck”. You really do want to delete it because there’s a new version that’s 1/3 the code, and touches less of the existing system, and so will take less work to review and vet.
by hinkley
2/23/2026 at 7:13:10 PM
> You see, yak shaving is what you are doing when you're doing some stupid, fiddly little task that bears no obvious relationship to what you're supposed to be working on, but yet a chain of twelve causal relations links what you're doing to the original meta-task.What do you think a “causal relation[ship]” means? It means need, not avoidant behavior.
by hinkley
2/22/2026 at 5:11:29 PM
I knew which vid's it gonna be before even clicking. Still hilarious.by 9dev
2/22/2026 at 5:15:55 PM
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/349by Sophira
2/22/2026 at 5:38:21 PM
This comic definitely speaks to me on a deep emotional level, but at the same time one of the things I like so much about computers is they're essentially unbreakable.Not that you can't get one into a non-working state, that is, of course, trivial but with the lone exception of deleting data, you can always restore a computer, the only tool being needed is some kind of boot disk.
(Compare that to breaking a literal hammer, you'd need a pretty specialized set of tools handy if you wanted to actually restore it)
by wredcoll
2/22/2026 at 7:47:04 PM
Ah; if only this was really true. You can certainly get a computer into a permanently bricked state, especially an embedded device. Even a modern x86 machine can be basically toasted by a bad firmware update.by buildbot
2/22/2026 at 6:11:44 PM
And perhaps less well known to the Hacker News crowd, relevant Malcom in the Middle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W4NFcamRhMby sltkr
2/22/2026 at 6:23:42 PM
That’s the same video (but in a higher quality) as in the grandparent comment.by teddyh
2/22/2026 at 8:07:15 PM
This only happens when the tools have become so neglected that every single one is broken. You should still take the time to pay down that debt, and in the process learn the lesson to pay the debt in smaller chunks in the future.You are going to pay it anyway, its not an "if" its a "when"
by malux85
2/22/2026 at 5:57:00 PM
Weird. I happen to be watching Malcolm in the Middle and I find a link to Malcolm in the Middleby Graziano_M
2/22/2026 at 8:32:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HQyqc-aVUby foresto
2/22/2026 at 5:14:27 PM
LOL! Well, somebody's gotta shave it!by kurthr