1/1/2026 at 5:50:24 PM
London has the house prices of California and the income levels of Mississippi.the UK is seriously broken, I always reflect on the energy generation statistics of the UK per capita
while in the US you see automated car washes, in the uk most car washes are Albanians n other immigrants etc
by dzonga
1/1/2026 at 7:48:56 PM
I spot checked some of this and from what I can find, the median salary in London is about $12k more than Mississippi, and the median house price in London is about $100k less than California.Bear in mind that obviously the mean salary in London is going to be far higher than the median (the finance industry will skew it), while I'm not sure that's as extreme as Mississippi. Additionally median salaries reflect a lot of service jobs and similar labour. Dubai has a lower median wage than either London or Mississippi, but people don't think of it as economically broken.
Comparing California (an extremely large state that I presume has cheaper housing outside major urban areas) to a city seems a bit of a poor comparison.
I don't disagree that the UK has high energy costs.
by verbify
1/1/2026 at 9:25:23 PM
If you’re trying to do a rebuttal, saying that wages are slightly higher than Mississippi and house prices are slightly lower than Cali doesn’t refute anything, it just serves to make the example more extreme and concrete. Look at house prices in Mississippi in relation to their income and then compare the same ratio for Cali and for London.by lukevp
1/1/2026 at 9:52:40 PM
Also, taxes?by piker
1/2/2026 at 5:49:04 AM
tax numbers are irrelevant except as part of a takehome pay calculation.at the very least, pretending that health insurance isnt another tax is a common way to derail these discussions.
by butvacuum
1/2/2026 at 4:07:45 AM
> Dubai has a lower median wage than either London or Mississippi, but people don't think of it as economically broken.Dubai isn’t sold as a place to belong long-term. Most people move there knowing it’s temporary. The Bay Area is drifting in the same direction too with the increased cost of living around here. (but the same could be said about most big cities, maybe?)
by SamDc73
1/1/2026 at 10:30:17 PM
Dubai is absolutely economically broken lol. The city was built on cheap foreign slave labor. And the luxurious amenities of the city are only for the wealthy royal and foreigners. Their main export besides oil is the illusion of a thriving metropolisby financetechbro
1/1/2026 at 10:55:10 PM
The example I like to use to demonstrate how broken labor vs. service costs are in the UAE is to compare the price of a Big Mac meal to the price of a standard manual car wash (closer to detailing tbh).In the UAE, a Big Mac meal costs approximately 35 AED ($10). On the other hand, a manual car wash - approx. 1-2 hours of labor - can cost you around 20 AED.
In other words, you could get almost two manual car washes for the price of a Big Mac.
by Cyph0n
1/2/2026 at 12:40:54 AM
Can you elaborate? I would have thought the main driver for the price of a service is the labor?by robkop
1/2/2026 at 1:36:58 AM
You essentially have two stratums of society:(1) the middle class (and above) who have money to spend on services
(2) the migrant working class, the bulk of whom send every last extra penny back home as remittances to support family
The second class of people are not considered as a market for the majority of services in the UAE. In the case of food, when they do eat out, they frequent traditional, low cost/quality establishments.
As for why a Big Mac costs that much, labor definitely doesn’t have much to do with it. My impression is that prices continued to get pushed up as long as sales didn’t take a hit, which means it’s mostly pure profit.
Keep in mind that the median salary isn’t that high. Without looking it up, I would guess it’s approx $25k USD/year, but I haven’t lived there in a while.
by Cyph0n
1/2/2026 at 3:12:03 AM
You can probably get that here in the US near a high school during team sports donation times.Not a great car wash but probably $5-10 on the low end.
One should be uncomfortable the Arab States are doing so well. They have no democracy but seem to be thriving. Not expected post 9/11 imo.
by ineedaj0b
1/2/2026 at 4:38:34 AM
Why should one feel uncomfortable?by Cyph0n
1/1/2026 at 10:08:11 PM
If this was meant to be a rebuttal, it wasn’t.Compare the housing costs of London to the housing costs of San Francisco and then swap out those Bay Area salaries with your “slightly above Mississippi” wages and you’ll see why London looks so broken to people used to LA/SF/NY.
by kortilla
1/1/2026 at 10:41:02 PM
London doesn't have the income level of Mississippi, although that might be true for the UK average. I'd say that the UK may be "seriously broken", but not more so than other post-industrial countries, including the US (or France, or Japan). It's just broken in different ways. E.g. life expectancy in the UK is significantly higher than in America even though they were the same in the '80s. Education levels (and measures such as literacy profficiency and skills etc.) are also significantly better in the UK than in the US. Somewhat tongue in cheek, Americans are richer but they don't seem to be putting their money to good use, as Brits are better educated and live longer.by pron
1/1/2026 at 6:39:22 PM
There are differences, but this is oversimplified, and market is “mostly” working. You need more money in California, for transportation, for health care. The standard is bigger houses (bigger everything) in Cali. Life might be richer, in some ways more pleasant, in London (it’s not weather though), including shorter flights to many interesting places.From my experience the ratio of savings was similar, but the ppp of course favored US for absolute numbers.
by xixixao
1/1/2026 at 6:00:59 PM
House prices are out of wack anywhere desirable because the local income is irrelevant when non-locals are allowed to scoop up the local supply.by bix6
1/1/2026 at 10:10:41 PM
This is a common opinion that never actually matches the facts.The issue is all the things blocking supply. As long as supply is blocked, prices will go up, Period
by socalgal2
1/1/2026 at 11:23:13 PM
But why allow e.g. Chinese investors to buy property in SF if they aren't even going to live there?by amelius
1/2/2026 at 1:38:32 AM
1. It's only an investment because of limited supply.2. Chinese investors buying up and not living there is effectively a myth. There just are aren't very many of them.
3. What's special about "Chinese"? If a rich NYC finance person buys a vacation home in SF is that ok? How about a Brit or German?
by socalgal2
1/1/2026 at 11:42:27 PM
Do they pay property taxes?by cycrutchfield
1/1/2026 at 11:46:01 PM
Maybe but that will certainly not bring down prices for the average US citizen looking for a home.by amelius
1/2/2026 at 12:48:41 AM
In California? With prop 13? Hardly.We invented money as a way of distributing scares resources. When there is housing going empty while people live on the streets in tents with no running water, no electricity, no sewage, one has to realize that something's gone wrong.
by fragmede
1/1/2026 at 6:08:14 PM
Countries like Indonesia have banned foreigners from owning land altogether. You can apparently still own property through land-lease agreements and other arrangements, but not the land. I think they've cracked down on illegal rentals too.by yunnpp
1/1/2026 at 6:32:49 PM
House prices are only "out of wack" in areas with poor social housing programs.Housing in Vienna is still affordable, only due to their very successful public housing programs. Public housing can be both beautiful and highly affordable if you want it to be, it's not like we don't know how to make good quality homes with lovely public amenities. It's mostly developers that want to skim on everything while selling it at the highest cost possible.
Poor system if this is the outcome: unaffordability.
by shimman
1/1/2026 at 9:50:14 PM
I am interested in what is working in Vienna when “housing problem” is what almost every city in “the West” has or thinks it has.To me it seems to be a combination of
- wealth inequality (eg 20/30 trillion dollars was printed and furloughed out in Covid, which funnels its way up to the holders of the most assets, seeing asset price inflation but no attempt to tax back the money printed). Repeat on different scales for unfair tax systems and poor infrastructure and and and
- urban planning (we think the ideal city is dense using seven storey or so apartment buildings and fairly aggressive anti-car (ie far less parking than seems possible) with better public transport and lots of pedestrian access. This describes almost no cities
- mortgages and other pro house incentives. You want house price inflation for decade after decade, just allow people to borrow a greater ratio against their salary — and allow married women into the workplace. Suddenly turning a mortgage limit of 2.5 x a man’s salary into 5x a dual couples salary. People bid up prices, forcing more couples to have two salaries to compete. And companies don’t have to increase salary to compensate … people combine salaries and go deeper into debt. Hell if you only had one policy weapon, forcing 2.5 borrowing against one highest paid persons salary is not a bad one. You won’t get re-elected however.
by lifeisstillgood
1/1/2026 at 8:32:45 PM
Real estate prices are out of whack everywhere. Even in places with no good jobs, low population density, and rapid depopulation, real estate prices are increasing exponentially. There are no market forces in play anymore.by carlosjobim
1/1/2026 at 7:21:41 PM
Nobody will admit that the housing is overpriced, so they would have to be forced to do so.This is terrible for normal people, and slightly bad for the investors, but only a crisis or organized government action can reset the damage done by decades of investment in already existing buildings.
The former is much more likely to happen.
by kubb
1/1/2026 at 10:49:12 PM
Yes but London isn't in America so there's that.Have you lived in the UK at all, or at least spent considerable time there?
I've lived in the UK and America, and America seems far more broken to me.
by i_love_retros
1/2/2026 at 2:24:05 AM
I’ve lived in an actual “broken” country. Compared to that both the US and UK are great.by zeroonetwothree
1/2/2026 at 6:18:04 AM
The UK is a third-world country with first-world cost of living.by Nextgrid
1/1/2026 at 9:53:31 PM
> while in the US you see automated car washes, in the uk most car washes are Albanians n other immigrants etcEr what? I moved away from the UK in 2007 but even then the only place I or my parents washed a car was the ubiquitous petrol station automated car wash.
by jemmyw
1/1/2026 at 10:06:05 PM
I can only think of one automated wash in my UK town, and well over 10 "Albanian" hand washes. Personally I go to the Albanians every time - they take pride in what they're doing, handle the vehicle with care and do a far, far better job than an auto wash.by drcongo
1/1/2026 at 10:55:08 PM
No idea where OP is based but like most suggestions about the UK or London online it's bullshit. Most petrol stations have the same automated car washes they've always had. If you want your car hand washed there are lots of people doing that too, as there always have been. Like all places, the UK and/or London has plenty of issues including serious ones - but I'd still pick it over anywhere in the US regardless of salary differences.by basisword
1/1/2026 at 11:07:04 PM
Conversely, I've no idea where you or the parent has the idea that the UK is full of automated car washes and the OP is talking bullshit. I live in London and can think of a only a handful of the old fashioned automatic car washes.Whereas I can get a hand carwash at pretty much any supermarket car park I land on. From a guy with a bucket and trolley to a full team of four going at it with a power wash. Tesco, Sainsbury's, wherever.
The Albanian angle feels loaded, but it's true that many of the employees do seem to be recent immigrants.
I don't see much point denying this reality, it feels a bit like trying to argue there's always been high streets full of betting shops, charity shops, vape stores and American candy shops.
by hereonout2
1/1/2026 at 11:50:41 PM
London is an odd one as space is limited and the hand wash places can pop up anywhere quite easily. If I look at the more suburban place I'm from most petrol stations still have the automated ones (contactless payment now instead of the tokens). And most of the larger supermarkets there that have petrol stations still have the automated car washes too.by basisword
1/1/2026 at 11:08:31 PM
Is it that unimaginable things might have changed in the almost two decades since you left?by hereonout2
1/2/2026 at 12:33:23 AM
Yes, it is unimaginable that the UK has replaced most of their automated car washes with immigrants washing cars manually. I've been back there and I've still family there, it's not that different "on the ground" as it were, despite the big political changes.by jemmyw
1/1/2026 at 11:47:06 PM
I live in the UK now, have done for 40+ years and there are (still) automated car washes everywhere.by whyleyc
1/1/2026 at 5:51:43 PM
Income and wealth inequality! I don’t see a way out for the UKby klysm
1/1/2026 at 6:04:30 PM
Median wealth per adult in the UK is 176k. In the US it is only 124k.Source: UBS Global Wealth Report 2025
Of course US does has a much higher mean wealth…
by turbonaut
1/1/2026 at 5:59:22 PM
[flagged]by specproc
1/1/2026 at 6:04:16 PM
Not disagreeing but also I wonder how it compares to inequality in Britain before the US was a thing.by lithocarpus
1/1/2026 at 6:24:15 PM
The core issue is that most major businesses are ultimately owned directly or indirectly abroad, largely in America, with some tapping by London-based intermediaries.Supermarkets and shopping centres, national assets (e.g., water) the story is the same. Then there's Amazon et al.
Profit generated in this country is by and large not spent here, and is certainly not taxed adequately.
This causes inequality by short-circuiting redistributive measures, either local economic multipliers or government spending.
What gains are felt are concentrated in service sectors which facilitate global capital, concentrated in London. See OP's thoughts on legalistic societies.
It compares to inequality in England before the US was a thing, in the same way. Small elite benefiting from global plunder, vast inequality internally.
The British Empire didn't actually end. There was a hostile takeover by Washington at the end of WW2.
by specproc
1/1/2026 at 6:07:32 PM
The UK is already close to the USA on obesity rates and catching up fast.by nradov
1/1/2026 at 6:03:05 PM
Meh. Everywhere has foreign investment. The economic elite of the UK owns the US as well.by 01284a7e
1/1/2026 at 6:15:08 PM
[dead]by cindyllm