alt.hn

12/31/2025 at 5:54:35 PM

Tesla publishes analyst forecasts suggesting sales set to fall

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/dec/31/tesla-surprise-announcement-lower-sales-2025

by rene_d

12/31/2025 at 6:26:07 PM

What happens when TSLA speculation finally hits reality? It was understandable when growth was 50% yoy, but now its negative growth YOY and PE is 300. Would it take down the entire stock market with it because it unravels the many layers of leverage/margin or would money flow to other speculations?

by thelastgallon

12/31/2025 at 6:46:52 PM

I'm not sure how much of "the stock market" TSLA makes up, but at current valuation, it makes up 1.9% of VTI (so that's a good estimation). So it could blink out of existence and only take VTI down 2%. (2% is significant of course.) But more likely might be a slow erosion while other components grow, making index funds and "the entire stock market" quite resilient to such a shock.

by neogodless

1/1/2026 at 2:28:19 AM

It appears you're using a Vanguard total market fund. Nothing wrong with that, it's clearly broader than the SP500, but I suspect more folks are familiar with the latter. In that spirit folks might be interested to know it's not much different. If Tesla disappeared tomorrow with would be 2.4% of the SP500.

by fearmerchant

12/31/2025 at 8:19:08 PM

> What happens when TSLA speculation finally hits reality?

In all likelihood? xAI buys Tesla. That’s the functional floor.

> Would it take down the entire stock market with it

No.

by JumpCrisscross

12/31/2025 at 8:34:21 PM

How low could that floor be, in dollar terms?

The financial engineering with the Twitter/X takeover was already pretty bold, but Tesla would probably still be a chunk an order of magnitude larger than that.

by ckastner

1/1/2026 at 1:23:54 AM

Given that xAI only has a few billion in cash on hand? Very fucking low. It'd bankrupt Elon before reaching that stage though.

by Veliladon

12/31/2025 at 9:18:08 PM

AI exuberance is ridiculous, but even xAI could not pony up enough real money to payout Tesla investors for anything but pennies on the dollar.

by 0cf8612b2e1e

12/31/2025 at 6:54:36 PM

you wrote TSLA and reality in the same sentence :)

people keep forgetting that TSLA is not a car company! they are AI and humanoid and robots and … company and as such worth 100x current eval :)

by bdangubic

12/31/2025 at 7:02:01 PM

...you forgot "terraforming Mars" :)

by disqard

12/31/2025 at 7:30:44 PM

Solving autonomy is the hardest technical challenge right now, way harder than creating a frontier LLM AI. Tesla has basically solved it. So to argue sarcastically about Tesla is in my opinion being ignorant. I get the Elon hate, but he is usually correct in his predictions, albeit late

by sixQuarks

12/31/2025 at 8:17:18 PM

> Tesla has basically solved it

Waymo has solved it. Tesla and BYD probably will solve it. And then everyone else will solve it for the same reason everyone likes having car factories: jobs and tanks.

I say this as someone who was in a Waymo and used Tesla’s latest FSD less than a month ago. One of them still fails spectacularly ungracefully. In the other I can take a nap.

by JumpCrisscross

12/31/2025 at 8:35:59 PM

The question I ask every person pitching FSD is whether they would let the FSD take their kid to soccer/bball… practice - still waiting for first yes answer

by bdangubic

1/1/2026 at 12:39:16 AM

We have a pretty good idea of what products Apple is likely to release next year.

We no longer have an actual product roadmap of revenue viable product releases from Elon and Tesla. It’s just irrational market exuberance but all the products are being abandoned.

That isn’t really sustainable.

I drive a Y. I’ve said before that Elon was peak Elon when they released the 3/Y and he sent the Roadster into space. Everything since has been a grift of diminishing returns, in terms of reality and actual hardline income.

Grok and xAi are a thing but they mostly cost money right now. I kinda wonder if he isn’t irrationally energetic enough to get something interesting out of Macrohard but he can no longer iterate product releases to save his life.

My other long bet is that Google will win a big chunk of AI (because TPUs and frontier and other income and enterprise sales) and Elon will mostly succeed in outspending OpenAI and plundering their chances (save the magical odds of their Jony Ive bet delivering some kind of post-moat income autonomy). xAI and OpenAI will sink into the deep together.

by browningstreet

12/31/2025 at 7:40:51 PM

> Tesla has basically solved it

What exactly has Tesla solved, automation-wise? Not sure what you are specifically referring to? I am being everything except ignorant, I look at things with my own eyes and do not fall for car-salesman tricks. Perhaps I gave him the benefit of the doubt initially but after decade+ of overpromising and underdelivering (underdelivering might be the understatement of the century) forgive me if I do not believe what a car salesman is pitching. I do not hate Elon at all, actually think he's one of the greatest visionaries of our time and probably the greatest salesman in the history of mankind.

by bdangubic

12/31/2025 at 6:10:45 PM

stock will reach an all time high based on this news..

by vijay_erramilli

12/31/2025 at 6:12:38 PM

If they can just get down to 0 sales then costs will drop significantly, that should really boost the stock price.

by RaftPeople

12/31/2025 at 6:57:42 PM

TSLA going pre-revenue.

by triceratops

12/31/2025 at 7:07:41 PM

Maybe they will even invent post-revenue economics. Or, with the benefit of the doubt, between-revenues economics.

by ahartmetz

12/31/2025 at 8:07:40 PM

> … in a new “consensus” section on its investor website …

Why would they willingly start publishing numbers that are worse than 3rd party consensus, out of nowhere?

by funnymunny

12/31/2025 at 8:14:52 PM

Maybe they're starting to realize that the first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one? Feels safer to say "look we didn't do well and we're going to not do well for a bit, but we'll get back on our feet" because it could encourage a buying of the dip.

by Neywiny

12/31/2025 at 10:29:51 PM

For the life of me I do not understand why the board of directors doesnt remove Musk. Their decline has been very pronounced in 2025 and his antics are largely to blame.

by josefritzishere

1/1/2026 at 5:02:19 AM

The ridiculous valuation depends on him. Firing him would cause it to plummet back to earth.

by SR2Z

12/31/2025 at 10:34:12 PM

It is car comfort which is to blame

by unixhero

12/31/2025 at 8:17:00 PM

I saw 3 Chinese EVs in my mom's apartment complex parking garage. The rest were European. No Tesla's.

by expedition32

12/31/2025 at 6:14:57 PM

What Musk really excels at selling --- hype.

by jqpabc123

12/31/2025 at 6:08:49 PM

tesla stock: positive lol

by paulpauper

12/31/2025 at 6:19:04 PM

I don't think people have quite realized Cybercab is also a hedge against vehicle sales dropping. Musk can keep the factory at high utilization by pumping out cabs at cost and start collecting rideshare income.

Tesla just announced Cybercab is now in production.

by everfrustrated

12/31/2025 at 6:43:55 PM

I don't think you quite realize that Cybercab is a long, long way from scaling into a profitable business.

Safety and remote drivers are a huge barrier to achieving this. As is legal liability for accidents. Uber sidesteps this issue completely since it is the driver's responsibility.

Word is that Robotaxi is crashing at a higher rate than human drivers in Austin --- even with safety drivers.

https://www.technology.org/2025/11/03/teslas-robotaxi-fleet-...

by jqpabc123

12/31/2025 at 7:32:51 PM

I don’t think you realize that Tesla has basically solved autonomy. you are obviously not using the latest Tesla version of FSD

by sixQuarks

12/31/2025 at 7:50:00 PM

Did you forget the /s

by boredatoms

12/31/2025 at 6:43:40 PM

Based on Tesla's stock price and P/E ratio, it would seem most people do believe what you're suggesting, right?

But I am curious what the end-to-end math looks like for all costs incurred in Cybercab rideshare services, maintenance, insurance, repairs, and so forth, and how that calculates out per mile. And of course the volume of rideshares, given the tepid pace most Tesla announcements come to fruition and scale.

The Model 3 / Y scaled better than many predicted, but since then, other promises have gone the other way.

by neogodless

12/31/2025 at 10:28:04 PM

How many billions in revenue did cybercab do in 2025 or is it just elons promises that are worth the same as his previous ones?

by victorbjorklund

12/31/2025 at 6:35:42 PM

And everything they've announced has come to pass before...

by tartuffe78

12/31/2025 at 6:51:24 PM

so we should expect to see it by 2065?

by bdangubic