alt.hn

12/27/2025 at 1:23:08 AM

James Moylan, engineer behind arrow signaling which side to refuel a car, dies

 https://fordauthority.com/2025/12/ford-engineer-that-designed-gas-tank-indicator-passes-away/

by NaOH

1/2/2026 at 5:38:19 AM

You can do a while lifetimes work, and yet sometimes it's a tiny action like this which can have the biggest benefit to mankind.

Just think how many billions of times someone has avoided pulling up to the wrong side of the pump because of this arrow - literal lifetimes of effort saved.

by londons_explore

1/2/2026 at 5:56:18 AM

The person (committee?) who came up with USB A needs sanctions.

And Apple Needs more, for putting power buttons and key ports at that back.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 6:26:22 AM

No the people who decided that usb 3.2 gen 2x2 and usb 4 version 2.0 gen 4x2 were acceptable names are the ones who should be sanctioned

by qwertytyyuu

1/2/2026 at 7:54:24 AM

I still don't know by memory whether USB full-speed or USB high-speed is faster. Boy, tech people just can't name things.

by ryandrake

1/2/2026 at 8:09:04 AM

Hey, when we said naming things was one of the hardest problems in computer science, we were right!

by fragmede

1/2/2026 at 3:49:57 PM

[dead]

by pamcake

1/2/2026 at 6:21:24 AM

whats wrong with usb-a? I feels more sturdy and less likely to have connection issues then usb-c in my experience.

by pa7ch

1/2/2026 at 6:51:45 AM

> whats wrong with usb-a?

Which way up it should go.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 7:44:26 AM

Simple. The third way you try, always.

by silisili

1/3/2026 at 12:46:45 PM

Macro-scale quantum hardware: USB-A is a spin-1.5 connector.

by lproven

1/2/2026 at 9:19:28 AM

The side with the holes. That's true for 95% of devices, with one of the few major exceptions being cheap chinese powerbanks

by bmicraft

1/3/2026 at 1:48:05 AM

Or if you’re plugging into a desktop where the ports are vertical

by wlesieutre

1/3/2026 at 1:26:54 PM

There is usually still a concept of front. Most desktops if laid down would be laying on their right side (so the motherboard & cpu aren't upside down). From there you can still pretty easily tell how the port is oriented without looking.

by bmicraft

1/2/2026 at 10:25:14 AM

Which requires being able to see the plug.

by saagarjha

1/2/2026 at 11:07:10 AM

As with most plugs that came before it.

by YeahThisIsMe

1/2/2026 at 1:01:25 PM

They were not externally symmetric

by saagarjha

1/2/2026 at 10:45:53 AM

Also the side that has the logo on.

by 1718627440

1/2/2026 at 11:26:12 AM

USB-C is better than A in that it works in two orientations instead of one, but the correct answer for connectors should be any orientation — the best connectors are cylindrical connectors: barrel plugs, RCA, BNC, banana, phono, TRS, TRRS, etc. Just make them round.

by perilunar

1/2/2026 at 11:43:45 AM

Man, there’s nothing more satisfying than the feel of a quarter-inch TRS plug slotting in to a high quality jack. Truly one of the great plug designs.

by skywhopper

1/3/2026 at 2:41:31 AM

And one of the oldest. It dates back to the 1870s. Older even than the Edison Screw.

by perilunar

1/3/2026 at 3:55:36 AM

LEMO push-pull connectors and their ilk are mighty satisfying.

by 0_____0

1/2/2026 at 5:44:06 PM

Well, more like 1.5 orientations because we STILL have devices that only work with the cable in one of two valid orientations.

by estimator7292

1/3/2026 at 1:16:58 AM

Would it be practical to have a round port as a universal connector? USB C uses a lot of pins, how would that work? Like an audio plug with a lot of rings?

by echoangle

1/3/2026 at 1:37:13 AM

I think it would be practical with glass fibre. Two wires/rings for power, and fibre for data. Something like a Mini-TOSLINK, but even smaller. Ideally the plug would be barely thicker than the cable.

by perilunar

1/3/2026 at 2:39:28 AM

Glass fibre is pretty fragile though, it would probably break in the first hour for most people if used like a normal USB Cable.

by echoangle

1/3/2026 at 3:19:16 AM

Just use polymer fibre for consumer gear. Cheaper and more robust.

by perilunar

1/3/2026 at 10:04:19 AM

Can that still transfer data at full speed with reasonable cable length while bent?

by echoangle

1/2/2026 at 6:54:14 AM

The other way

by sitharus

1/2/2026 at 7:14:40 AM

No, the other other way.

by onion2k

1/2/2026 at 7:37:58 AM

It's almost impressive that they designed a port that feels so wrong when you actually get it right

by hexbin010

1/2/2026 at 7:49:51 AM

I worked in an IT department at one time and encountered USB-A plugs forced into Ethernet ports.

It seems so unlikely that I’ve just searched it to see if it’s possible, but am getting no hits.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 8:53:00 AM

My laptop has one of these ethernet ports that half close when not in use. It doesn't work anymore because someone mistook it for the USB port that's right next to it when distractingly plugging their keyboard in.

by lefra

1/3/2026 at 7:08:06 PM

This reminds me so much of the old story about how a user called support to tell them their floppy drive wasn't working. When the tech got there, the computer had no floppy drives, and the user had been forcing the disks in the gap between the drive blank plates.

by flopsamjetsam

1/2/2026 at 8:29:50 AM

no, they definitely fit. They're just awkwardly exactly the right size that while you're trying to plug things in punched over under the desk and crawling around and feeling around the backside; it just yeah.

by fragmede

1/2/2026 at 7:04:07 AM

PS/2, which USB all but replaced, solved this by visually keying one side of the connector as flat.

by schmuckonwheels

1/2/2026 at 9:44:19 AM

And I have more than once bent the tiny pins by trying to orient the plug by feel, and it was a nightmare to fix it afterwards.

by gambiting

1/2/2026 at 5:46:07 PM

You've never ruined a PS/2 port by rotating the plug to find the right orientation?

by estimator7292

1/2/2026 at 2:33:50 PM

When I'm trying to plug my PS/2 keyboard into the port in back of my computer which I cannot see, instead of needing to try two orientations, I need to try every orientation.

by rssoconnor

1/2/2026 at 10:46:21 AM

And USB solved it by having the logo on the upper side.

by 1718627440

1/2/2026 at 7:30:56 AM

Where the logo is.

by thih9

1/2/2026 at 7:33:39 AM

And when the port is vertical and you can’t see it?

I’m surprised how tolerable people seemed to find Apples rear ports.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 7:25:56 AM

It's very weird that USB-C solved the problem of "we can't tell which way to insert the plug" by mandating that both orientations should work, as opposed to just making the exterior of the plug as asymmetrical as the interior.

by thaumasiotes

1/2/2026 at 7:42:33 AM

I don't find it weird. Not even having to work out a correct orientation is a great convenience. The micro-USB connection (or is it "min"?), which I need to fiddle with to charge some older gadgets, is a testament to how annoying an "asymetric exterior" plug can still be.

by dxdm

1/2/2026 at 7:50:55 AM

With micro USB you end up with damaged plugs and ports in my experience.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 8:43:51 AM

Yes, micro USB is far too flimsy for a lot of things it’s used for from what I’ve observed. The connector seems to have a lot of leverage for ripping its tracks off, but often not a great mechanical connection to the board.

by rounce

1/2/2026 at 7:52:54 AM

You mean something like HDMI? If you’ve ever tried to plug one of those into the back of a TV, you’ll know it’s still pretty difficult to get it the right way up.

by iainmerrick

1/2/2026 at 8:50:01 AM

> If you’ve ever tried to plug one of those into the back of a TV, you’ll know it’s still pretty difficult to get it the right way up.

That's true, but the difficulty in that case comes from being unable to see the hole or fit into the space between the television and the wall.

For example, plugging an HDMI cable into the back of a monitor involves none of the difficulty of plugging an HDMI cable into the back of a TV, even though the connector and the port are the same in both cases.

by thaumasiotes

1/2/2026 at 9:54:08 AM

At least HDMI is a 'low frequency' connector, often only ever plugged in once, as opposed to USB (or refueling a car)

by briansm

1/2/2026 at 9:46:49 AM

I bought a cheap USB hub so I don't have to reach behind the TV to plug things in

by bdbdbdb

1/2/2026 at 5:50:01 PM

Have you ever tried to use a D-sub connector?

Very asymmetric, impossible to plug in backwards, only one possible orientation.

Still absolutely fucking awful. Same for HDMI, displayport.

The RJ series are the only asymmetric connectors I've use that you can easily get in blind.

by estimator7292

1/2/2026 at 7:38:00 AM

Less weird as they get smaller. Call it an accessibility thing if you like, but I think it's better for everyone and congrats to them. Isn't this what technology is supposed to do, make things easier?

by asplake

1/2/2026 at 9:24:19 AM

sometimes you're plugging in things at the back of something nearly flush against a wall and you can't really see, its quite useful for the connector to be reversible.

by haritha-j

1/2/2026 at 7:23:00 AM

Which rear facing "key port" on a Mac are you suggesting should be on the front?

by stephenr

1/2/2026 at 7:31:20 AM

> Which rear facing "key port" on a Mac are you suggesting should be on the front?

USB.

I used iMacs, mini and pro machines. Any ports in the front would be nice.

My m4 mini does have some front ports. It’s less of an issue now with usb-c but the iMac presumably still rear mounts them.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 10:44:45 AM

The Mac Studio has two of 6 TB/USB-C ports on the front, and has since inception.

So does the Mac Pro (well technically they're on the top now) and has on most models since the G5 PowerMac 20 years ago; The single model without front/top ports was replaced in 2019.

So does the Mac mini has two front facing ports now.

So your complaint is essentially about the extremely minimalist, consumer-oriented iMac, or maybe older Mac minis.

Ok. Don't buy an iMac or an old Mac mini then.

by stephenr

1/2/2026 at 1:28:49 PM

When you plug in a USB stick, surely you want it on the front? Do you get around this with an adaptor or something?

My use case seems common. The bulk of my usage of their desktops was during the ultra minimum list era that you mention. I mostly love their machines but some of the form-over-function is rough.

Presumably Pros don’t need access to the power button either.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 2:42:02 PM

On the rare occasion I plug in a usb flash drive (I assume that's what you mean by "stick") I use the usb-c end. On the even rarer occasion I use it with some device that doesn't have usb-c (this is actually just hypothetical I've never done this in practice) I turn the flash drive around and use the usb-a end.

It's been clear that usb-c is the future for a decade now. How on earth do you still have flash drives that are usb-a only?

I probably use the power button once a month, and I'd say this is the norm for most developers/similar people. It's no harder than accessing the menu button/toggle stick on the back of my dell display.

by stephenr

1/2/2026 at 2:57:44 PM

I rarely see a USB-C memory stick. I bought one and I’m not sure I’ve seen another. I’m usually dealing with ones others pass to me.

To make it worse, the machines I use have several USB-A ports and at most, 1 USB-C (any macs being an exception).

This is primary on MRI scanners. We live in a deeply flawed world.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 3:31:28 PM

Sandisk have been making dual-port usb flash drives for years. I see no reason to buy/use any other kind, in the same way I see no reason buy a printer with a parallel port or a mouse with a ps2 plug on it.

If it's really a significant problem, use the benefits of usb and put a hub or usb extension cord on the desk to connect to.

I just cannot fathom how such trivial factors are a problem for people.

by stephenr

1/2/2026 at 9:11:35 AM

[dead]

by NedF

1/2/2026 at 8:56:04 AM

What's wrong with pulling up to the wrong side of the pump? I do it all the time when the petrol station is busy, just pull the hose over to the other side and fuel the car anyway.

by jstanley

1/2/2026 at 9:11:59 AM

just because there's nothing particularly wrong with only getting the usb in on the 3rd try doesn't mean it's not a minor inconvenience worth resolving.

but if you want a more dramatic example, it's right there in the text: Moylan got soaked because of this inconvenience. if he'd gotten a pneumonia as a result of this and died, then that is suddenly much more than a minor inconvenience.

by tpoacher

1/2/2026 at 9:28:14 AM

There's a trick to USB, the block part (in the wire) is nearer the ground. ( motherboard-side for vertical desktops )

Since learning that, I have the confidence to stick it in first time rather than 3rd or 4th.

That's not to say that USB-C isn't a huge improvement that has thankfully resolved having to know that.

by xnorswap

1/2/2026 at 9:42:35 AM

I like that usbc is double sided but I find them prone to pop out a lot easier than standard usb. It's a weird ask but wish they were bigger

by bdbdbdb

1/2/2026 at 9:05:31 AM

The hose won't always reach.

by CoastalCoder

1/2/2026 at 9:06:53 AM

In my experience that's only true in TV adverts from my childhood. I've never had one unable to reach in real life.

by jstanley

1/2/2026 at 9:54:34 AM

Apparently you have a tiny car? I’ve never had a vehicle (even a small Subaru) that they reached.

by lazide

1/2/2026 at 12:05:42 PM

I should clarify. The hose probably reaches when the rear of the car is adjacent to where the hose connects to the pump.

(I only drive my normal passenger cars, not trucks.)

But I'm me not in the habit of doing that, because it doesn't usually matter for me.

by CoastalCoder

1/2/2026 at 9:19:52 AM

Try in Europe

by cromka

1/2/2026 at 9:26:27 AM

I'm in Europe, in case you're on the "wrong" side of the pump you just have to make sure that you park the car a little further, so you'd get the pump hose through the back and on to the other side without scratching the car's paint. That's all it is to it. I'm from Romania and I've driven (and hence re-fueled) my car all the way from Bretagne, France, to Peloponnese, Greece, never had a problem.

I also don't know anything about any "arrow" signalling anything in my dashboard, maybe it's only on the US-made cars, I wouldn't know cause I generally know on which side I have to fuel my car.

by paganel

1/2/2026 at 9:44:47 AM

I'm also in Europe, I drive a ford, and the only fuel arrow on my dash actually points to the wrong side for filling

by bdbdbdb

1/3/2026 at 12:48:58 PM

Petrol or diesel?

by lproven

1/9/2026 at 2:39:31 PM

Oh I'm a week late but diesel

by bdbdbdb

1/4/2026 at 11:54:55 PM

You have a car that runs on raw petrol?

by LtWorf

1/6/2026 at 11:45:18 AM

I do not know where you are in the world but in the homeland of the English language, Britain and most of its direct (former!) colonies, "petrol" is the stuff cars and motorbikes run on and "diesel" is the stuff agricultural vehicles and heavy plant (lorries, buses) runs on. "Gas" is a phase of matter along with "liquid", "solid", and "plasma" and that is all the bare noun means. "Natural gas", and the obsolete "coal gas"/"town gas", are fuels, but for heating/cooking/light not vehicles as a rule, but generally we'd talk about propane, butane, etc.

We never, ever use "gasoline" or the Germanic "benzene" for this. Benzene is a specific chemical here, never ever a fuel.

by lproven

1/8/2026 at 2:45:12 AM

Here in Australia 'gas' as a fuel always means LPG (liquified petroleum gas = propane/butane). And it is getting rarer for cars.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-19/lpg-cars-disappearing...

by mjmas

1/9/2026 at 2:39:05 PM

Hence the expression "now you're cooking with gas"

That must confuse the hell out of the yanks

by bdbdbdb

1/2/2026 at 9:45:26 AM

Agreed about never having a problem with this, but our cars either have the arrow, or the hose in the icon is on the side of the car that has the tank cover. This has been true for all cars I've seen here.

by stavros

1/2/2026 at 9:42:42 AM

I'm in Europe, the hoses always reach to the other side of the car just fine. Or maybe you know, remember that Europe isn't one country and actually say where you are.

by gambiting

1/2/2026 at 10:16:08 AM

Try in The World

by Podrod

1/2/2026 at 9:35:04 AM

I live in Europe, never encountered a problem.

by looperhacks

1/2/2026 at 11:58:30 AM

I live in europe. It does reach the other side.

by LtWorf

1/2/2026 at 7:02:21 AM

2020s UX "experts" would bury the entire instrument cluster under a hamburger menu if they could get away with it.

The fuel gauge would be moved three menus deep and thus impossible to find, then removed in subsequent model years when their telemetry data "proved" no one used it anymore.

by schmuckonwheels

1/2/2026 at 7:38:54 AM

BMW would put it behind a subscription

by hexbin010

1/2/2026 at 3:05:01 PM

Next up: buy a new one when the old one runs out.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 7:09:18 AM

It drives usage up! Seriously, I wonder whether this “Make things to annoy people” trend is a normal situation, or an emerging behavior due to our era, and whether it will be solved one day. Example: In 2003 all UX was abominable, programs were ugly and black and white and text and boring, then came the iPhone with the idea to hire designers for apps, it was entirely new and absolutely unseen before. It was necessary during the take off phase of our industry, but are we simply witnessing the regression to normal, with UX being driven by corporate suits?

by eastbound

1/2/2026 at 7:17:31 AM

In the end, these engineers' job is make profit for the company. If the customer allows for all this crap, and still buys cars/fridges/tvs with such horrible UX, then it's the way forward.

by unglaublich

1/2/2026 at 7:34:19 AM

>If the customer allows for all this crap

You imply they ever had a choice.

Companies like Tesla and Rivian pioneered the trend of bringing webshit-as-an-instrument cluster to the mainstream. Other car companies saw dollar signs, rode their coattails and immediately copied it.

What is a customer supposed to do? Buy a Mitsubishi Mirage? Build their own instrument cluster?

by schmuckonwheels

1/2/2026 at 11:16:06 AM

Well personally I bought a used car which got out of the factory in 2010 and has a gauge cluster which isn't a screen.

I see no reason to buy new instead of used, and I see no reason why I would change my car to a newer one anytime soon.

I agree that automotive engineers do not work for the end customer leading to shittier cars, but I also think that most people are unable to vote with their wallet (or just don't care).

by cornichon622

1/2/2026 at 7:42:14 AM

Most of the instrument cluster is superfluous. My 81 Vanagon has only these and it's fine:

Speedometer (which starts at 10 mph and I've managed to adjust so it's about right at 40ish but reports 70 mph when you're doing 60), odometer (5.1 digits), fuel gauge (non-linear, but consistent, the top half is a lot bigger than the bottom half, no arrow because it hadn't been invented yet). And then some lights: brake warning lamp (but the bulb is burnt out and doesn't seem replacable), high beam indicator, alternator indicator, turn signal indicator (one led for both directions!), low oil pressure indicator, and EGR indicator which really just turns on 10,000 miles after you push the button on the box under the front of the car.

Don't even need a tach, cause they put one dot on the speedo where you should shift out of first, two dots where you should shift out of second, and three dots where you should shift out of third.

The gauge lights come on when the headlights are on, so that's a subtle indicator too, I guess.

Don't really need much more than that. There was an optional clock in my model year, but mine doesn't have one.

by toast0

1/2/2026 at 8:27:00 AM

It's all optional if you have enough mechanical empathy. No speedo, oil light, odo, gas gauge. You just get a feel for how fast you're going. You haven't really lived until you've ridden a salvage titled motorcycle with zero instrument cluster across 17 without headlights after the sun's gone down. Sometimes I'm surprised I made it this long.

by fragmede

1/2/2026 at 9:16:44 AM

Speedometer could be due to different size tires.

by b112

1/2/2026 at 5:42:43 AM

Which is great for new cars. I drove a 78 Buick Riviera. Friends couldn’t figure out how to fill it up. Because the gas cap was behind the license plate in the back!

by wombatpm

1/2/2026 at 5:53:54 AM

Why didn't they just ask ChatGPT?

Oh wait.

by waldrews

1/2/2026 at 6:07:22 AM

For those curious, the first sentence of the response from ChatGPT gets it correct.

>On a 1978 Buick Riviera, the gas cap is hidden behind a flip-down license plate on the rear bumper.

by charcircuit

1/2/2026 at 7:51:10 AM

That's not what I received from ChatGPT. This is:

The fuel filler door is on the left side (driver’s side) of the vehicle. Therefore, the little arrow on the dash fuel gauge should point to the left to indicate that.

(Most Buick Rivieras of that era had the fuel filler on the driver’s side, though official Buick manuals or build sheets from 1978 confirm this location.)

by IncRnd

1/2/2026 at 11:43:51 PM

TIL: There is an arrow signaling which side to refuel a car.

And while I am only slightly embarrassed that I did not know this, I am more excited about having learned this now. Yup, I just checked my car and it really is there, guys.

by yunnpp

1/3/2026 at 12:51:57 PM

I was scrolling down the comments waiting for the first comment from someone experiencing this revelation.

I only learned maybe 5-6 years ago -- but then, I only bought my first car at age 55, because I have a kid and moved to a tiny country with infrequent public transport.

by lproven

1/2/2026 at 5:35:12 AM

Anybody else get confused by whether the arrow represents where the car should be or the pump?

by ryanjshaw

1/2/2026 at 5:39:13 AM

No

by LoFiSamurai

1/2/2026 at 5:52:37 AM

I agree. As much as people appreciate the factoid, it's not an example of good design.

I don't ever recall the arrow being paid attention to until listicles and other blog spam were born. It has all the elements of great clickbait.

by sublinear

1/2/2026 at 6:09:46 AM

I actually use it all the time when driving a rental.

by gk1

1/2/2026 at 6:39:06 AM

I use it all the time because I switch between a lot of different cars a lot, and my memory is not that great.

by mhdhn

1/2/2026 at 7:09:11 AM

That isn’t in conflict with it being bad design.

by jquery

1/2/2026 at 8:51:54 AM

True. Though im unsure of what would be a better one. Doesnt get much simpler than an arrow.

Id think that for a car you own you wouldnt need it after the first few times though.

by mschild

1/2/2026 at 9:49:53 AM

a better solution would have been to have an industry wide standard icon for the fuel inlet and then an arrow would point on which side of the vehicle it is. The way it is now with the pump icon really can be confusing. If the arrow is pointing right, it seems to be suggesting the driver should go to the right of the pump which is obviously wrong.

I like the way EVs have the squiggly hose icon and that tells you everyting.it doesn't depict the charger station, but the plug point on the vehicle.

by chillstreem

1/3/2026 at 1:54:44 PM

“Directions are ambiguous, when somebody says turn right, I grab the wheel by the bottom and move the hand to the right”

*Technically* it could be less ambiguous, but actually it is good enough.

If memorising this is hard, not a big problem, parking next to fuel pump twice is not that huge of a damage.

by lucketone

1/3/2026 at 6:57:04 PM

in the absence of industry wide standards, this is an ingenious design, 100% best thing possible

by rtgfhyuj

1/2/2026 at 2:21:10 PM

I use it regularly when driving an unfamiliar car. I also don’t think it’s ambiguous: it’s a drawing of a gas pump and an arrow telling you where it should be from here, which is a convention from signage the world over. “Paris ->” has never meant “you are this way relative to Paris.”

The design I used to find confusing was the controls for periodic windshield wipers: does the width the triangle indicator represent frequency or period? I eventually just managed to memorize that it means frequency because you get more wiping as you turn it “up”. I don’t think anyone else ever found this ambiguous; we all have our little intuition gaps, I guess.

by icambron

1/2/2026 at 5:36:54 PM

Well, you need to pull up to the side of the gas pump. It's not an "intuition gap". The arrow is ambiguous.

You don't pull up next to Paris, but I would get a chuckle if the icon had a little Eiffel tower instead of a gas pump.

by sublinear

1/3/2026 at 6:58:03 PM

nah, the pump is visibly physically, dont need an arroq thats idiotic

by rtgfhyuj

1/3/2026 at 12:57:36 AM

Baader–Meinhof phenomenon.

The fact that it is consistent across vehicles sort of mitigates the problems with it. "Arrow points at fuel door" is not actually hard to remember.

by maxerickson

1/2/2026 at 7:08:38 AM

It’s terrible design. Until I encountered one of these listicles I had no idea what that arrow was.

by jquery

1/2/2026 at 6:40:17 AM

I use it regularly

by mayneack

1/2/2026 at 11:11:14 AM

The arrow indicates where the hole is.

by Taek

1/2/2026 at 5:41:06 AM

I think this is the source of me misinterpreting the symbol a few times, so yes.

by michaelmdresser

1/2/2026 at 7:15:07 AM

I do. It is not obvious in any case

by mongol

1/2/2026 at 6:54:29 AM

Isnt it that nowadays usually on the side of the driving seat? Or does this apply only to EU vehicles?

Im not a regular car user, if at all Im renting - but the last 10 times(?) it was always just on the side of the driving seat

by KellyCriterion

1/2/2026 at 7:19:16 AM

Isnt it that nowadays usually on the side of the driving seat? Or does this apply only to EU vehicles?

That would mean designing two separate entire fuel tank placements, fuel lines, etc for cars that are available both in left- and right-hand drive variants, with different SKUs for each of the parts needed. There is no way a car manufacturer would do that.

by onion2k

1/2/2026 at 7:16:54 AM

Im not aware of such a convention, I'm in the EU and most cars I've owned or driven has it on the opposite side of the driving seat.

Might just be a coincidence

by tripledry

1/2/2026 at 7:21:55 AM

It’s a coincidence because the UK uses the same cars and ours are mostly on the same side (because we’re right hand drive where you’re left hand drive).

by scott_w

1/2/2026 at 8:50:56 AM

Usually, it will be where the passenger side is in the cars home market. That is left for Japanese and British vehicles and right for US and German ones.

Fun fact, for single exhaust cars, the exhaust will usually be on the driver side, in order to route around the fuel tank :-)

by Sebb767

1/2/2026 at 6:56:52 AM

I think it depends. Especially with PHEVs, which also have a charge port, whose location is determined by charging infrastructure, and which is not IME on the same side as the gas tank opening.

by apparent

1/2/2026 at 8:43:23 AM

My phev has charging and gas on the same side. I'm american

by dmead

1/2/2026 at 9:48:14 AM

My PHEV has charging and fuel ports on opposite sides. Volvo XC60.

by gambiting

1/3/2026 at 3:39:04 PM

It points towards both the gas pump and also the side of the car that has the fuel filler, it’s impossible to confuse.

by quickthrowman

1/2/2026 at 9:07:37 AM

Yeah, it's a bit counter-intuitive.

by Revisional_Sin

1/2/2026 at 4:50:26 AM

I had no idea till this moment that’s what the arrow was for…

by celeritascelery

1/2/2026 at 5:44:24 AM

I didn’t know it was possible to not know this.

by acheron

1/2/2026 at 7:10:48 AM

Nobody ever told me and I drove my first car for a long time, rarely drove other people’s cars, and did not have the kind of lifestyle that either supported or required rental cars.

I found out around age 35, I think. From reading it online. I’ve told a bunch of people who didn’t know.

by phantasmish

1/2/2026 at 5:53:24 AM

I've encountered a few cars where the arrow points to the wrong side, and it's quite subtle if no one tells you.

by AlotOfReading

1/2/2026 at 8:45:57 AM

I'm in my 40s and just learned this right now.

by dmead

1/2/2026 at 7:02:13 AM

Who taught you? I didn't know until my 20s and have met many adults who didn't know.

by apparent

1/2/2026 at 4:21:12 PM

You learn something new every day huh!

by ddellacosta

1/5/2026 at 2:13:03 AM

I haven't ever noticed the arrow in 14 years until this article (I believe).

by lostmsu

1/2/2026 at 5:10:13 AM

I'm sure about 99% of people are in the same boat.

by nutjob2

1/2/2026 at 5:55:44 AM

The signage is for cars, not boats.

by kirubakaran

1/2/2026 at 8:52:22 AM

But they are still all at sea

by KineticLensman

12/27/2025 at 1:35:43 AM

“Moylan arrow”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_gauge#Moylan_arrow

https://www.vermeulenfh.com/obituaries/james-moylan-2/#!/Obi...

by toomuchtodo

1/2/2026 at 5:04:19 AM

Another car thing that is named after someone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker

Also known as the "Window Sticker"

by rationalist

1/2/2026 at 5:13:22 AM

Mansfield bars too, if you don’t mind getting ghoulish

by onionisafruit

1/2/2026 at 5:20:02 AM

I have never heard of that name before, and had to do a search. In case anyone else wants info too:

https://www.getgordon.com/faqs/what-is-mansfield-bar/

by rationalist

1/2/2026 at 5:32:42 AM

Sorry that was thoughtless of me to not provide a link

by onionisafruit

1/2/2026 at 5:03:13 AM

On cars without the arrow they often follow the convention where the gas filler handle is depicted on the same side of the gas icon as the filler door is in the car.

by phibz

1/2/2026 at 8:13:35 AM

That was the original idea on how the icon should be used but obviously too subtle.

Moylan basically added a modifier icon for clarity.

by whiteboardr

1/2/2026 at 6:59:45 AM

I've heard that the gauge always points towards the side the cap is on when pointing to empty

by pants2

1/2/2026 at 7:35:42 AM

Far too subtle

by anjel

1/2/2026 at 7:20:36 AM

I'm from the UK and had honestly not heard of the arrow.

I've checked my Toyota Yaris, and it's there!

by daveoc64

1/2/2026 at 2:10:49 PM

Sorry to ruin the party but i never really noticed this until this post. Ive always checked the gas side for a rented with my own eyes.

Idea maybe is great but implementation is so so if it’s not immediately obvious for many people

by aristofun

1/2/2026 at 4:22:49 PM

You’re not alone. I point this out to other millenials and gen z all the time and it’s usually the first time they learn about it.

by nerdsniper

1/2/2026 at 5:21:22 PM

Another signal that the design sucks :)

by aristofun

1/3/2026 at 3:47:43 AM

Alternatively, it signals that people are really lazy and/or “common education” (process for common knowledge) is lacking on this topic.

(I bet it is described in the manual; but we will never know - I also have not read it)

by lucketone

1/3/2026 at 8:05:16 PM

> I also have not read it

Unless you’re a professional driver - you’re in your right. We dont have to learn how to use UI made for people. If that’s the case we could just read where the fricking inlet is.

It’s the design that is bad

by aristofun

1/2/2026 at 7:21:39 AM

Is the side to fill up evenly balanced between cars in average? I imagine there is value to make it close to 50/50 to simplify the logistics at the gas station. I was thinking car manufacturers perhaps had agreed so that some brands do it one way and some do it another

by mongol

1/2/2026 at 7:59:37 AM

No the filler placement is sort of a cultural or historical thing.

Usually European cars have filler on the passenger side while American and Japanese put them on the driver side.

Afaik passenger side fillers are more safe if you run out of gas and need to fill up from a canister at the side of the road.

While driver side fillers are more comfortable because you don't have to walk as far to get there.

by LordHeini

1/2/2026 at 9:22:20 AM

I recall looking at a car to buy, and the salesman toted the gas cap on the right as the "safe side".

The logic was, if you run out of gas, you can refill on the side away from traffic.

Dumbest design reasoning. Plan the side, for an event most people never experience?! Or if they do, once... and maybe on a rural dirt road, not necessarily a freeway.

Probably wanted an excuse for moving it.

by b112

1/2/2026 at 11:48:35 AM

It's also nice not having to worry about opening your door and hitting the pump.

by mlrtime

1/2/2026 at 9:25:40 AM

Do you also hate airplane regulations for their dumbest reasoning? You know, when they try to avoid one in a million situation saving mere 200 people?

by cromka

1/2/2026 at 10:37:48 AM

While I have no issue with pulling up to the pump, I think many would prefer to pull up driver on the pump side.

And there is zero indication it will save even one life a decade.

Think of all the drivers pulling over and (gasp!) getting out of their cars for other ressons.

by b112

1/3/2026 at 10:34:54 AM

> And there is zero indication it will save even one life a decade

You're just making things up and present as facts.

by cromka

1/2/2026 at 7:33:03 AM

Even if there was a single side for filling, direction of approach being random is enough for 50/50 utilization of the pumps — so I’m not convinced there’s a pressure to spread which side the tank is on.

by zmgsabst

1/2/2026 at 7:49:35 AM

> direction of approach being random

is this specific to a country? I'm not sure I've ever seen a petrol station that wasn't one-way

by namdnay

1/2/2026 at 8:19:26 AM

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen one that was one-way; but my experience is limited to US, MY, TH, and VN.

In those four at least, traffic can come from either direction so you can have left-handed fills use both sides of a pump.

by zmgsabst

1/2/2026 at 5:24:06 PM

Costco and Sam's Club usually have their filling stations set up for one-way traffic, but offhand those are the only ones I've seen that way in US, Canada, Caribbean, and western/central Europe (though the Euro design of filling stations just off the highway encourages one-way traffic, it doesn't mandate it). Haven't driven myself elsewhere.

by devilbunny

1/2/2026 at 8:22:39 AM

Huh, you’ve got me thinking now.

Here in Finland at least there are a lot of completely unattended pumps that once you exit the road it’s basically just a patch of land and you pull up in whatever direction you want to match the side of your tank to a free pump.

But in the UK where I’m from and just got back from this is maybe less common.

by alibarber

1/2/2026 at 9:50:10 AM

Why would it matter? Just park on any side, I've never been to a fuel station where the hose wouldn't reach to the other side if needed. Or since you said gas and not petrol, is that an American thing? Do you guys have short hoses thah don't reach?

by gambiting

1/2/2026 at 9:57:23 AM

We have big cars that it’s hard to get the fuel hose to get around without scratching the paint (or not reaching at all).

by lazide

1/3/2026 at 12:34:57 AM

Our plugin hybrid has both a gas side on the left and electric side on the right. The electric side on the right is helpful in the US to allow parking curbside and charging the vehicle.

by jimlawruk

1/2/2026 at 7:11:24 AM

My Dad explained to me what this symbol meant when I got my first car. We went to get gas, and I had no idea that I pulled up on the wrong side of the pump. He indicated that the symbol told you which side of the car the gas tank was on.

It was a 1994 Ford Taurus.

by sodafountan

1/2/2026 at 7:48:56 AM

I prefer the pump that is on the side of the petrol cap, but filling up from either side absolutely works for me in the uk, there isn't a "wrong side"

by f4c39012

1/2/2026 at 8:12:09 AM

One side is "wronger" when driving an unnecessarily large land yacht. My Civic, it's fine.

by tlavoie

1/2/2026 at 6:58:58 AM

I was like 20 when I learned about this trick. Before then I'd only driven a few vehicles, and I just knew which side of the car the gas tank opening was on. A friend mentioned it when we were going to fill up a car a borrowed car and I asked which side it was on.

I've since met many adults who were unaware of this trick. It's like the real-world analog of an insufficiently discoverable UI functionality.

by apparent

1/2/2026 at 6:24:10 AM

It's a convenient little invention but "the fact that there wasn't a simple way to know which side of a vehicle the gas tank was located on" is not quite true.

Usually, if the vehicle is of Japanese or British origin, the cap is on the left, otherwise it is on the right.

Source: I’ve driven dozens of different vehicle models all over Europe for decades. This rule always worked well enough for me.

by weinzierl

1/2/2026 at 1:26:26 PM

Anecdotally I’ve driven far fewer cars; my Mazda 323 BG has the filler on the left, but my Subaru Forester SG is on the right, despite both being of Japanese origin.

My Forester is likely to be an exception rather than the rule, however I do feel that the everyday person isn’t going to make the connection between the country of origin and filler side, especially so if it’s not consistent.

I never noticed the Moylan Arrow on my Forester for a year in owning it, and often mixed up the side for that time. Interestingly, my 323 doesn’t have the Moylan Arrow, but the Ford Laser equivalent does.

by justaregulanerd

1/3/2026 at 5:15:12 PM

I drove cars for 34 years and didn’t know about the arrow. I looked up some pictures for my cla gauge. Seems it’s there

by jjhvbvcvjvvgh

1/2/2026 at 6:36:16 AM

One of my previous cars didn't have the signaling arrow and I missed it instantly. Such a subtle great idea.

by tiku

1/2/2026 at 1:32:49 PM

Always found it incredibly strange that my Mazda 323 from 1995 (originally released in 1989) doesn’t have the arrow [1], but it’s co-developed Ford Laser KF/KH does [2]

Although, I believe the platform was primarily developed by Mazda so perhaps they didn’t catch onto this arrow until well after my generation of 323 was on the market.

[1] https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBUPxJJlgjs6KOI2.f... [2] https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Kv4AAOSwt-pjJtKG/s-l500.jpg

by justaregulanerd

1/2/2026 at 8:48:23 AM

Cars in India don't have this arrow. The inlet is always on the left (passeger) side. I wonder if there is some regulation governing this.

Edit: though I have never seen / noticed any cars with the fuel inlet on the driver's side some imported cars may have them.

I guess this is a first world problem.

by cake-rusk

1/2/2026 at 10:50:32 AM

I live in India and what I've noticed is that the position of the "refuel your car" fuel pump icon shows where the inlet is.

by ultratalk

1/2/2026 at 8:52:38 AM

When I lived in India you bought petrol from the petrol station in 2 litre plastic bottles.

by delaminator

1/2/2026 at 10:52:26 AM

People still do this here.

by ultratalk

1/2/2026 at 11:09:01 AM

Why?

by cake-rusk

1/2/2026 at 8:56:54 AM

Really? When was this?

by cake-rusk

1/2/2026 at 9:23:10 AM

When they lived in India

by cromka

1/2/2026 at 11:25:07 AM

10 years ago, in Calangute.

by delaminator

1/2/2026 at 5:07:08 AM

What a letter. Clear, concise, just chef's kiss. I love that little indicator.

by deathanatos

1/2/2026 at 9:31:32 AM

His letter is from 1986. Mercedes W123 and R107 clusters had triangles pointing in the filler direction in the 1970s already. (Granted, not quite as clear as his next iteration).

by janosch_123

1/2/2026 at 7:25:34 AM

That's funny, I know someone that's fairly famous in the product development world that claimed to be the inventor of the gas pump arrow. Weird thing to lie about.

by luckydata

1/2/2026 at 5:27:27 AM

Why would you not just always put it on the driver's side, since they're the most likely to be doing the refueling?

by anigbrowl

1/2/2026 at 5:39:13 AM

And which side is the driver side? Surprise, it depends on the country. And a Japanese car manufacturer will move the driver controls to sell cars in USA/Continental Europe, but flipping everything else will cost more.

I've driven 2 models of an Italian brand, my previous car had the gas tank on the passenger side, and my current one has it on the driver side. I do wonder why they changed it.

There's also the issue of pulling to a small road side petrol station, having the fuel door on the passenger side means you don't have to be standing next to the busy road while refuelling.

by netsharc

1/2/2026 at 7:05:40 AM

> I do wonder why they changed it.

Depending on model years, it could have something to do with Fiat merging with Chrysler in 2014. European brands usually have them on the passenger's side, while US brands have them on the driver's side. Maybe that new Fiat was designed in the US.

by wickedsight

1/2/2026 at 7:09:16 AM

I live in the UK (drive on the left) and my Honda had it on the passenger side while my VW has it on the driver's side.

by globular-toast

1/2/2026 at 6:10:41 AM

As it should be. If the Globalist cabal had their way, everyone would drive on the same side of the road (like mindless assembly line workers) and traffic signs would be completely standardized, and - yes - the fuel filler would be on the same side of every car (welcome to a monotonous Communist dystopia). They already came for Sweden ('Dagen H' Plan. Do your own research) /s

by thomassmith65

1/2/2026 at 6:01:02 AM

safest place is put it opposite of drivers side, because if you're out of gas on the side of the road and filling it up, you won't be standing right next to freeway traffic. Saab started this.

by npunt

1/2/2026 at 6:15:43 AM

A linked article agrees:

  "... many European cars have the fuel door located on the passenger side, while many Japanese and American vehicles have the fuel door on the driver side. Both techniques have valid reasons. European automakers place the fuel filler on the passenger side for the sake of safety when a vehicle has run out of fuel and has pulled off onto the shoulder of the road to fill up from a canister. Meanwhile, American OEMs tend to place the fuel door on the driver side of the vehicle for convenience reasons, so that a driver doesn't have to walk around the vehicle when filling up at a gas station."[0]
Brings to mind the Dead Kennedys album name, "Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death"

[0] https://fordauthority.com/2020/08/ford-designer-credited-for...

by nullhole

1/2/2026 at 6:56:21 AM

thank you, didnt know that, although Im in EU :-))

by KellyCriterion

1/2/2026 at 6:13:39 AM

Is that actually safer? Both you and drivers lose visibility which in my mind makes it more dangerous.

by charcircuit

1/2/2026 at 5:42:08 AM

My plug-in hybrid (Audi Q5) has the electric connector on the rear left (driver’s side) and the gasoline inlet on the rear right. I sure plug in way more than fill up.

The fuel side indicator is quite helpful to me.

by fourtwentynine

1/2/2026 at 7:01:42 AM

Funny, my PHEV had it on the opposite side. Did you find it difficult to charge at stations, which are often designed for front-left or rear-right charge ports?

by apparent

1/2/2026 at 5:37:24 AM

What happens when they sell the car in a country that drives on the other side of the road? They would have to move everything around.

by arijun

1/2/2026 at 6:00:20 AM

They could design the fuel tank to be symmetrical about the axis parallel to the car’s axels. This would let it be flipped during installation at the factory to have the refueling port facing either side. Then the only difference would be the body panel and little door that covers the gas cap.

by chongli

1/2/2026 at 6:58:35 AM

Many (mostly European and North American) manufacturers can’t even be bothered flipping the indicator and light controls around, there’s no way they’d flip the whole fuel tank.

by sitharus

1/2/2026 at 6:54:55 AM

They could but there are downstream packaging compromises that would cause. It is easier to design the vehicle without imposing that design constraint on yourself

by kube-system

1/2/2026 at 7:11:46 AM

They don’t. It stays on the same side as it was. They don’t move the bonnet opening lever or the indicator stalk either.

by aryonoco

1/2/2026 at 6:13:25 PM

If they can switch the steering wheel and all the other stuff around they can switch the orientation of the tank.

by anigbrowl

1/2/2026 at 9:07:55 AM

Indian vehicles do not have this arrow.

by lovegrenoble

1/2/2026 at 9:17:03 AM

Are you sure ? Have been driving car myself when I visit. Since 2018 I don’t recollect a car without that arrow.

by mrnaught

1/2/2026 at 6:36:11 AM

Wow! I just used this a few days ago when I rented a U-Haul van. Such a great user interface element.

by tjr

1/2/2026 at 7:07:26 AM

One of the many patron saints of engineers!

If he so believed in it, may his arrow be pointing up! :)

by arjvik

1/2/2026 at 7:44:19 AM

Who knew? I always thought this was a UX lore, and it was subsequently debunked.

by spenjovewkwhalo

1/2/2026 at 8:51:59 AM

Or make it so you can pump on both sides of the car, like we have.

by delaminator

1/2/2026 at 4:52:32 AM

I only knew it because someone talked about that. Very useful. RIP.

by markus_zhang

1/2/2026 at 7:09:52 AM

Nobody getting gas at Costco cares.

by sumoboy

1/2/2026 at 7:12:24 AM

Most people do, with the exception of the woman awkwardly stretching the long hose over the roof of her minivan, scratching it in the process.

by schmuckonwheels

1/2/2026 at 5:42:01 AM

I use his arrow all the time. I'm also a Ford Truck Fan. RIP James.

by iancmceachern