alt.hn

12/27/2025 at 1:23:08 AM

James Moylan, engineer behind arrow signaling which side to refuel a car, dies

 https://fordauthority.com/2025/12/ford-engineer-that-designed-gas-tank-indicator-passes-away/

by NaOH

1/2/2026 at 5:38:19 AM

You can do a while lifetimes work, and yet sometimes it's a tiny action like this which can have the biggest benefit to mankind.

Just think how many billions of times someone has avoided pulling up to the wrong side of the pump because of this arrow - literal lifetimes of effort saved.

by londons_explore

1/2/2026 at 5:56:18 AM

The person (committee?) who came up with USB A needs sanctions.

And Apple Needs more, for putting power buttons and key ports at that back.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 6:26:22 AM

No the people who decided that usb 3.2 gen 2x2 and usb 4 version 2.0 gen 4x2 were acceptable names are the ones who should be sanctioned

by qwertytyyuu

1/2/2026 at 6:21:24 AM

whats wrong with usb-a? I feels more sturdy and less likely to have connection issues then usb-c in my experience.

by pa7ch

1/2/2026 at 6:51:45 AM

> whats wrong with usb-a?

Which way up it should go.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 7:44:26 AM

Simple. The third way you try, always.

by silisili

1/2/2026 at 7:04:07 AM

PS/2, which USB all but replaced, solved this by visually keying one side of the connector as flat.

by schmuckonwheels

1/2/2026 at 6:54:14 AM

The other way

by sitharus

1/2/2026 at 7:14:40 AM

No, the other other way.

by onion2k

1/2/2026 at 7:37:58 AM

It's almost impressive that they designed a port that feels so wrong when you actually get it right

by hexbin010

1/2/2026 at 7:49:51 AM

I worked in an IT department at one time and encountered USB-A plugs forced into Ethernet ports.

It seems so unlikely that I’ve just searched it to see if it’s possible, but am getting no hits.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 7:30:56 AM

Where the logo is.

by thih9

1/2/2026 at 7:33:39 AM

And when the port is vertical and you can’t see it?

I’m surprised how tolerable people seemed to find Apples rear ports.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 7:25:56 AM

It's very weird that USB-C solved the problem of "we can't tell which way to insert the plug" by mandating that both orientations should work, as opposed to just making the exterior of the plug as asymmetrical as the interior.

by thaumasiotes

1/2/2026 at 7:42:33 AM

I don't find it weird. Not even having to work out a correct orientation is a great convenience. The micro-USB connection (or is it "min"?), which I need to fiddle with to charge some older gadgets, is a testament to how annoying an "asymetric exterior" plug can still be.

by dxdm

1/2/2026 at 7:50:55 AM

With micro USB you end up with damaged plugs and ports in my experience.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 7:38:00 AM

Less weird as they get smaller. Call it an accessibility thing if you like, but I think it's better for everyone and congrats to them. Isn't this what technology is supposed to do, make things easier?

by asplake

1/2/2026 at 7:23:00 AM

Which rear facing "key port" on a Mac are you suggesting should be on the front?

by stephenr

1/2/2026 at 7:31:20 AM

> Which rear facing "key port" on a Mac are you suggesting should be on the front?

USB.

I used iMacs, mini and pro machines. Any ports in the front would be nice.

My m4 mini does have some front ports. It’s less of an issue now with usb-c but the iMac presumably still rear mounts them.

by lostlogin

1/2/2026 at 7:48:56 AM

I prefer the pump that is on the side of the petrol cap, but filling up from either side absolutely works for me in the uk, there isn't a "wrong side"

by f4c39012

1/2/2026 at 7:02:21 AM

2020s UX "experts" would bury the entire instrument cluster under a hamburger menu if they could get away with it.

The fuel gauge would be moved three menus deep and thus impossible to find, then removed in subsequent model years when their telemetry data "proved" no one used it anymore.

by schmuckonwheels

1/2/2026 at 7:42:14 AM

Most of the instrument cluster is superfluous. My 81 Vanagon has only these and it's fine:

Speedometer (which starts at 10 mph and I've managed to adjust so it's about right at 40ish but reports 70 mph when you're doing 60), odometer (5.1 digits), fuel gauge (non-linear, but consistent, the top half is a lot bigger than the bottom half). And then some lights: brake warning lamp (but the bulb is burnt out and doesn't seem replacable), high beam indicator, alternator indicator, turn signal indicator (one led for both directions!), low oil pressure indicator, and EGR indicator which really just turns on 10,000 miles after you push the button on the box under the front of the car.

Don't even need a tach, cause they put one dot on the speedo where you should shift out of first, two dots where you should shift out of second, and three dots where you should shift out of third.

The gauge lights come on when the headlights are on, so that's a subtle indicator too, I guess.

Don't really need much more than that. There was an optional clock in my model year, but mine doesn't have one.

by toast0

1/2/2026 at 7:17:31 AM

In the end, these engineers' job is make profit for the company. If the customer allows for all this crap, and still buys cars/fridges/tvs with such horrible UX, then it's the way forward.

by unglaublich

1/2/2026 at 7:34:19 AM

>If the customer allows for all this crap

You imply they ever had a choice.

Companies like Tesla and Rivian pioneered the trend of bringing webshit-as-an-instrument cluster to the mainstream. Other car companies saw dollar signs, rode their coattails and immediately copied it.

What is a customer supposed to do? Buy a Mitsubishi Mirage? Build their own instrument cluster?

by schmuckonwheels

1/2/2026 at 7:38:54 AM

BMW would put it behind a subscription

by hexbin010

1/2/2026 at 7:09:18 AM

It drives usage up! Seriously, I wonder whether this “Make things to annoy people” trend is a normal situation, or an emerging behavior due to our era, and whether it will be solved one day. Example: In 2003 all UX was abominable, programs were ugly and black and white and text and boring, then came the iPhone with the idea to hire designers for apps, it was entirely new and absolutely unseen before. It was necessary during the take off phase of our industry, but are we simply witnessing the regression to normal, with UX being driven by corporate suits?

by eastbound

1/2/2026 at 5:42:43 AM

Which is great for new cars. I drove a 78 Buick Riviera. Friends couldn’t figure out how to fill it up. Because the gas cap was behind the license plate in the back!

by wombatpm

1/2/2026 at 5:53:54 AM

Why didn't they just ask ChatGPT?

Oh wait.

by waldrews

1/2/2026 at 6:07:22 AM

For those curious, the first sentence of the response from ChatGPT gets it correct.

>On a 1978 Buick Riviera, the gas cap is hidden behind a flip-down license plate on the rear bumper.

by charcircuit

1/2/2026 at 7:51:10 AM

That's not what I received from ChatGPT. This is:

The fuel filler door is on the left side (driver’s side) of the vehicle. Therefore, the little arrow on the dash fuel gauge should point to the left to indicate that.

(Most Buick Rivieras of that era had the fuel filler on the driver’s side, though official Buick manuals or build sheets from 1978 confirm this location.)

by IncRnd

1/2/2026 at 7:21:39 AM

Is the side to fill up evenly balanced between cars in average? I imagine there is value to make it close to 50/50 to simplify the logistics at the gas station. I was thinking car manufacturers perhaps had agreed so that some brands do it one way and some do it another

by mongol

1/2/2026 at 7:33:03 AM

Even if there was a single side for filling, direction of approach being random is enough for 50/50 utilization of the pumps — so I’m not convinced there’s a pressure to spread which side the tank is on.

by zmgsabst

1/2/2026 at 7:49:35 AM

> direction of approach being random

is this specific to a country? I'm not sure I've ever seen a petrol station that wasn't one-way

by namdnay

1/2/2026 at 5:03:13 AM

On cars without the arrow they often follow the convention where the gas filler handle is depicted on the same side of the gas icon as the filler door is in the car.

by phibz

1/2/2026 at 6:59:45 AM

I've heard that the gauge always points towards the side the cap is on when pointing to empty

by pants2

1/2/2026 at 7:47:34 AM

That was the original idea on how the icon should be used but obviously too subtle. Moylan basically added a modifier icon for clarity.

by whiteboardr

1/2/2026 at 7:35:42 AM

Far too subtle

by anjel

1/2/2026 at 5:08:43 AM

First time I've heard of that convention.

by nutjob2

1/2/2026 at 5:35:12 AM

Anybody else get confused by whether the arrow represents where the car should be or the pump?

by ryanjshaw

1/2/2026 at 5:39:13 AM

No

by LoFiSamurai

1/2/2026 at 6:54:29 AM

Isnt it that nowadays usually on the side of the driving seat? Or does this apply only to EU vehicles?

Im not a regular car user, if at all Im renting - but the last 10 times(?) it was always just on the side of the driving seat

by KellyCriterion

1/2/2026 at 7:19:16 AM

Isnt it that nowadays usually on the side of the driving seat? Or does this apply only to EU vehicles?

That would mean designing two separate entire fuel tank placements, fuel lines, etc for cars that are available both in left- and right-hand drive variants, with different SKUs for each of the parts needed. There is no way a car manufacturer would do that.

by onion2k

1/2/2026 at 7:16:54 AM

Im not aware of such a convention, I'm in the EU and most cars I've owned or driven has it on the opposite side of the driving seat.

Might just be a coincidence

by tripledry

1/2/2026 at 7:21:55 AM

It’s a coincidence because the UK uses the same cars and ours are mostly on the same side (because we’re right hand drive where you’re left hand drive).

by scott_w

1/2/2026 at 6:56:52 AM

I think it depends. Especially with PHEVs, which also have a charge port, whose location is determined by charging infrastructure, and which is not IME on the same side as the gas tank opening.

by apparent

1/2/2026 at 5:41:06 AM

I think this is the source of me misinterpreting the symbol a few times, so yes.

by michaelmdresser

1/2/2026 at 7:15:07 AM

I do. It is not obvious in any case

by mongol

1/2/2026 at 5:52:37 AM

I agree. As much as people appreciate the factoid, it's not an example of good design.

I don't ever recall the arrow being paid attention to until listicles and other blog spam were born. It has all the elements of great clickbait.

by sublinear

1/2/2026 at 6:09:46 AM

I actually use it all the time when driving a rental.

by gk1

1/2/2026 at 6:39:06 AM

I use it all the time because I switch between a lot of different cars a lot, and my memory is not that great.

by mhdhn

1/2/2026 at 7:09:11 AM

That isn’t in conflict with it being bad design.

by jquery

1/2/2026 at 6:40:17 AM

I use it regularly

by mayneack

1/2/2026 at 7:08:38 AM

It’s terrible design. Until I encountered one of these listicles I had no idea what that arrow was.

by jquery

1/2/2026 at 7:20:36 AM

I'm from the UK and had honestly not heard of the arrow.

I've checked my Toyota Yaris, and it's there!

by daveoc64

1/2/2026 at 7:44:19 AM

Who knew? I always thought this was a UX lore, and it was subsequently debunked.

by spenjovewkwhalo

1/2/2026 at 6:58:58 AM

I was like 20 when I learned about this trick. Before then I'd only driven a few vehicles, and I just knew which side of the car the gas tank opening was on. A friend mentioned it when we were going to fill up a car a borrowed car and I asked which side it was on.

I've since met many adults who were unaware of this trick. It's like the real-world analog of an insufficiently discoverable UI functionality.

by apparent

1/2/2026 at 4:50:26 AM

I had no idea till this moment that’s what the arrow was for…

by celeritascelery

1/2/2026 at 5:44:24 AM

I didn’t know it was possible to not know this.

by acheron

1/2/2026 at 7:10:48 AM

Nobody ever told me and I drove my first car for a long time, rarely drove other people’s cars, and did not have the kind of lifestyle that either supported or required rental cars.

I found out around age 35, I think. From reading it online. I’ve told a bunch of people who didn’t know.

by phantasmish

1/2/2026 at 7:02:13 AM

Who taught you? I didn't know until my 20s and have met many adults who didn't know.

by apparent

1/2/2026 at 5:53:24 AM

I've encountered a few cars where the arrow points to the wrong side, and it's quite subtle if no one tells you.

by AlotOfReading

1/2/2026 at 5:10:13 AM

I'm sure about 99% of people are in the same boat.

by nutjob2

1/2/2026 at 5:55:44 AM

The signage is for cars, not boats.

by kirubakaran

1/2/2026 at 7:07:26 AM

One of the many patron saints of engineers!

If he so believed in it, may his arrow be pointing up! :)

by arjvik

12/27/2025 at 1:35:43 AM

“Moylan arrow”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_gauge#Moylan_arrow

https://www.vermeulenfh.com/obituaries/james-moylan-2/#!/Obi...

by toomuchtodo

1/2/2026 at 5:04:19 AM

Another car thing that is named after someone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker

Also known as the "Window Sticker"

by rationalist

1/2/2026 at 5:13:22 AM

Mansfield bars too, if you don’t mind getting ghoulish

by onionisafruit

1/2/2026 at 5:20:02 AM

I have never heard of that name before, and had to do a search. In case anyone else wants info too:

https://www.getgordon.com/faqs/what-is-mansfield-bar/

by rationalist

1/2/2026 at 5:32:42 AM

Sorry that was thoughtless of me to not provide a link

by onionisafruit

1/2/2026 at 6:36:16 AM

One of my previous cars didn't have the signaling arrow and I missed it instantly. Such a subtle great idea.

by tiku

1/2/2026 at 6:36:11 AM

Wow! I just used this a few days ago when I rented a U-Haul van. Such a great user interface element.

by tjr

1/2/2026 at 6:24:10 AM

It's a convenient little invention but "the fact that there wasn't a simple way to know which side of a vehicle the gas tank was located on" is not quite true.

Usually, if the vehicle is of Japanese or British origin, the cap is on the left, otherwise it is on the right.

Source: I’ve driven dozens of different vehicle models all over Europe for decades. This rule always worked well enough for me.

by weinzierl

1/2/2026 at 7:11:24 AM

My Dad explained to me what this symbol meant when I got my first car. We went to get gas, and I had no idea that I pulled up on the wrong side of the pump. He indicated that the symbol told you which side of the car the gas tank was on.

It was a 1994 Ford Taurus.

by sodafountan

1/2/2026 at 5:27:27 AM

Why would you not just always put it on the driver's side, since they're the most likely to be doing the refueling?

by anigbrowl

1/2/2026 at 5:39:13 AM

And which side is the driver side? Surprise, it depends on the country. And a Japanese car manufacturer will move the driver controls to sell cars in USA/Continental Europe, but flipping everything else will cost more.

I've driven 2 models of an Italian brand, my previous car had the gas tank on the passenger side, and my current one has it on the driver side. I do wonder why they changed it.

There's also the issue of pulling to a small road side petrol station, having the fuel door on the passenger side means you don't have to be standing next to the busy road while refuelling.

by netsharc

1/2/2026 at 7:09:16 AM

I live in the UK (drive on the left) and my Honda had it on the passenger side while my VW has it on the driver's side.

by globular-toast

1/2/2026 at 7:05:40 AM

> I do wonder why they changed it.

Depending on model years, it could have something to do with Fiat merging with Chrysler in 2014. European brands usually have them on the passenger's side, while US brands have them on the driver's side. Maybe that new Fiat was designed in the US.

by wickedsight

1/2/2026 at 6:10:41 AM

As it should be. If the Globalist cabal had their way, everyone would drive on the same side of the road (like mindless assembly line workers) and traffic signs would be completely standardized, and - yes - the fuel filler would be on the same side of every car (welcome to a monotonous Communist dystopia). They already came for Sweden ('Dagen H' Plan. Do your own research) /s

by thomassmith65

1/2/2026 at 6:01:02 AM

safest place is put it opposite of drivers side, because if you're out of gas on the side of the road and filling it up, you won't be standing right next to freeway traffic. Saab started this.

by npunt

1/2/2026 at 6:15:43 AM

A linked article agrees:

  "... many European cars have the fuel door located on the passenger side, while many Japanese and American vehicles have the fuel door on the driver side. Both techniques have valid reasons. European automakers place the fuel filler on the passenger side for the sake of safety when a vehicle has run out of fuel and has pulled off onto the shoulder of the road to fill up from a canister. Meanwhile, American OEMs tend to place the fuel door on the driver side of the vehicle for convenience reasons, so that a driver doesn't have to walk around the vehicle when filling up at a gas station."[0]
Brings to mind the Dead Kennedys album name, "Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death"

[0] https://fordauthority.com/2020/08/ford-designer-credited-for...

by nullhole

1/2/2026 at 6:56:21 AM

thank you, didnt know that, although Im in EU :-))

by KellyCriterion

1/2/2026 at 6:13:39 AM

Is that actually safer? Both you and drivers lose visibility which in my mind makes it more dangerous.

by charcircuit

1/2/2026 at 5:37:24 AM

What happens when they sell the car in a country that drives on the other side of the road? They would have to move everything around.

by arijun

1/2/2026 at 6:00:20 AM

They could design the fuel tank to be symmetrical about the axis parallel to the car’s axels. This would let it be flipped during installation at the factory to have the refueling port facing either side. Then the only difference would be the body panel and little door that covers the gas cap.

by chongli

1/2/2026 at 6:58:35 AM

Many (mostly European and North American) manufacturers can’t even be bothered flipping the indicator and light controls around, there’s no way they’d flip the whole fuel tank.

by sitharus

1/2/2026 at 6:54:55 AM

They could but there are downstream packaging compromises that would cause. It is easier to design the vehicle without imposing that design constraint on yourself

by kube-system

1/2/2026 at 7:11:46 AM

They don’t. It stays on the same side as it was. They don’t move the bonnet opening lever or the indicator stalk either.

by aryonoco

1/2/2026 at 5:42:08 AM

My plug-in hybrid (Audi Q5) has the electric connector on the rear left (driver’s side) and the gasoline inlet on the rear right. I sure plug in way more than fill up.

The fuel side indicator is quite helpful to me.

by fourtwentynine

1/2/2026 at 7:01:42 AM

Funny, my PHEV had it on the opposite side. Did you find it difficult to charge at stations, which are often designed for front-left or rear-right charge ports?

by apparent

1/2/2026 at 7:25:34 AM

That's funny, I know someone that's fairly famous in the product development world that claimed to be the inventor of the gas pump arrow. Weird thing to lie about.

by luckydata

1/2/2026 at 7:09:52 AM

Nobody getting gas at Costco cares.

by sumoboy

1/2/2026 at 7:12:24 AM

Most people do, with the exception of the woman awkwardly stretching the long hose over the roof of her minivan, scratching it in the process.

by schmuckonwheels

1/2/2026 at 5:07:08 AM

What a letter. Clear, concise, just chef's kiss. I love that little indicator.

by deathanatos

1/2/2026 at 4:52:32 AM

I only knew it because someone talked about that. Very useful. RIP.

by markus_zhang

1/2/2026 at 5:42:01 AM

I use his arrow all the time. I'm also a Ford Truck Fan. RIP James.

by iancmceachern