alt.hn

1/13/2025 at 5:33:05 AM

Cascading OKRs: We can do Better

 https://jessitron.com/2025/01/12/cascading-okrs-we-can-do-better/

by zdw

1/17/2025 at 7:52:08 AM

Repeating my comment from a previous thread:

I still chuckle when I recall this tweet, "OKRs were actually a psyop from Google to slow down potential early stage competitors" [1].

[1] https://x.com/benwbear/status/1543056694330003456

by doppp

1/17/2025 at 9:52:07 AM

Google, the ad-monopoly pretending to be a competitive "tech company" to avoid scrutiny of it's monopoly [1] had a dizzying array of "tech products" it generated to maintain this subterfuge.[2]

Other companies, buying into the marketing smokescreen that they were a "highly competitive tech company" and not a search monopoly figured that 'cargo culting' their OKR process would help obtain the super-profits of they craved.[3]

The statements of departing Googlers during the successive waves of layoffs in '23 and '24 supported the hypothesis that GOOG suffered from having people just meeting their OKRs for products no one wanted or needed, and without any external guidance of profitability or customer feedback.

Just say no to OKRs. They won't give your company the monopoly it wants.

[1] Thiel, P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFZrL1RiuVI

[2] The obvious failures: https://killedbygoogle.com/

[3] If Google does it, it must be part of their recipe for success! https://blog.maxjahn.at/analysis/unveiling-the-ghosts-of-tec...

by Over2Chars

1/17/2025 at 8:24:44 AM

The punchline: > OKRs Cascade Upward to Strategy, not OKRs.

Alternatively: OKRs can be an effective way to summarise a strategy conversation that has actually happened. Outside of that, caution is advised.

by asplake

1/17/2025 at 5:57:25 AM

One of the interesting things about theory is sometimes it lets you short circuit entire ideas. For example, if someone comes up with a perpetual motion machine it makes sense to ask how they broke Thermodynamics Law 1/deleted friction. If they don't have an answer then it isn't necessary to look at any of the details to conclude the machine can't work.

With OKRs, the question is "how did you get around the problem where we can't measure programming productivity?". That is an unsolved problem in software engineering and it is impossible to design a better OKR system until it is resolved. Managers just have to wing it based on their personal opinions, things will work or fail at random, largely independent of the OKRs used.

If senior management wants to give their software teams nonsensical OKRs, the company's problem is that their senior managers are bad. Arguing with them about the OKRs probably won't make them better at managing the company and, frankly, I suspect it would be more productive just to get one of the engineers to bake a slice of something that looks like pie quickly one weekend rather than fight a losing battle on an unimportant hill. A company with nonsensical OKRs is going to have to make a habit of ignoring the OKRs anyway; the senior management can't use them for anything so all the junior managers will have to ignore them in sync. Ask the senior managers what they want at the water cooler once a fortnight and set the sprints up to deliver in that direction + some pie slices on occasion.

TLDR; I don't think articles that talk about better ways to do OKRs are the path to a better place.

by roenxi

1/17/2025 at 10:04:50 AM

Second law of thermodynamics is the applicable one here.

by sokoloff

1/17/2025 at 7:46:34 AM

OKR considered harmful:

https://www.radicalproduct.com/blog/okrs-criticism#:~:text=U....

Get this trash away from software engineering if your real goal is delivering working software and value.

It‘s purely a busy pretend work toy for management detached from real work and careerists that like to talk about increasing visibility, etc.

by Traubenfuchs

1/17/2025 at 11:16:25 AM

This is like saying daily tasklists are bad cos they don't address what I'll have to do next month. No sh, sherlock. That's why there are different horizons and long-term company goals and vision, based on which priorities are picked and set as OKRs for that specific time period. There are layers above them. What a weird take...

by nookee

1/17/2025 at 9:28:57 AM

Just say no to OKRs.

by Over2Chars

1/17/2025 at 2:30:53 PM

OKRs are a complete waste of time for everyone involved. Just avoid this corporate nonsense.

by gregors